I'm all for fundamentalism but this is too far.

JM

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"If we added up all the dire predictions that the fundamentalists have made down through the years, what about them didn’t happen? Fundamentalists are the cassandras of American cultural life. Back when everything seemed so stable in its Eisenhowerishness, the fundamentalist would say that everything was soon to be headed for hell in a handbasket. Ho, ho, ho was the cogent reply. Now here we are bouncing along in the handbasket, with some of the more gifted of our number getting grants from the National Endowment for the Humanities to puke over the side of the handbasket as we bounce along. “This small performance is one I like to call ‘Seasickness Against the Absolute.’ Thank you, thank you!” And a fundamentalist in the corner says, “You know, I don’t see how you can call that art.” Everybody, all together now, ho, ho, ho!" - Douglas Wilson

Unleashing Your Inner Fundamentalist | Blog & Mablog
 
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JacksBratt

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Because the person I was replying to was repeating a lie, claiming it to be true.

What was the lie?



You can accept whatever you like. What matters to me is what (and who) Christ accepts.

And, thanks to living in a free country with religious liberty... we can both accept whatever we like.

I'm glad that you care whom Christ accepts... He accepts all those from all religions.. who turn to Him for salvation...

Christ doesn't "accept" anything.. we accept Him.



Christ is saying that "He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me" (Luke 10:16). Any church that fits those criteria is a church that does not lead to Christ but rather away from Him.

My church, in fact all the churches that I have attended in my 50 + years as a Christian, they all "hear Him and despise those that despise Him....

What on earth leads you to believe that you have some VIP card with Christ?

Anyone who believes on His name is saved...
Anyone can read His word.
Anyone, no matter what their background, past, parents beliefs..... can be part of the body of Christ.

When we meet in glory... nobody.. not even Christ .... is going to care what the name of your church was.
 
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Tradidi

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What was the lie?

If you click on the arrow to the right of a quoted post you can follow the argument right to where it started.

Christ doesn't "accept" anything.. we accept Him.

Playing with words is just silly and a waste of everyone's time. Is that what you are trying to do?

Anyone who believes on His name is saved... but not everyone knows what believing means.
Anyone can read His word... but not everyone understands what he reads.
Anyone, no matter what their background, past, parents, beliefs... can be part of the body of Christ... if they believe and obey.
 
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Junia

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If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!


Amen!!! This is why I no longer defien myself as a Fundmentlaist Christian, (or an Evangelical or Conservative Christian either) I still have some beliefs from those movements, sure, but only those that are Biblical. I just consider myself a Christian (no labels) who loves Jesus as best as I can whilst on this imperfect earth and in this imperfect body and brain

I cannot stand the legalism around issues regarding marriages, music styles or tithing!

Other issues some fundamnetalists/ churches push claiming they are "Biblical":

- body piercings are sin

- psychology, psychotherapy, mental health medicine are sins

- bare arms are a sin, sundresses, leggings are a sin

- women chooinsg to be childfree or celibate are sinning (yes really)

- sterilisation and other non-abortificent family planning are a sin (what Bible says is that children are a blessing. nowhere are they commanded except to Adam and Eve and Noah and family. children a re a good thing but it is not a salvation issue)

- taking medications is a sin (that scripture on pharmakkie/sorcery is not referring to medicines!)

- going no contact or leaving an abusive person is a sin

- eating non-organic, processed food is a sin (no it;s unhealthy but not a sin)

- sin to not spank your child (no, the rod in Proverbs is same root in Hebrew as rod in psalm 23, rod and staff. guidance and discipline are advised. doesn't have to be physical, neccessarily

- vaccines are a sin (maybe good to avoid them re: health but again, no scriptures says they are sinful per se)

-make up, wigs, weaves is a sin

- hair dye is a sin, cornrows, straightening/curling is a sin

- altering your natural appearance or smell is a sin (yes, even non-perfume deodroants were banned in a certain denomination). So yeah, you cannot shave your legs as a woman or have teeth capped or plastic surgery is you get horribly burned etc)

- a sin for women to work (again a misinterpretation of Paul's advice on beign a keeper at home., single women need to have jobs to support themselves if they unmarried or not yet married. ditto widows etc)
 
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JacksBratt

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Anyone who believes on His name is saved... but not everyone knows what believing means.


I'm pretty sure that almost every Baptist, Pentecostal, Christian reform, Associated Gospel, and other Protestant churches.. are just as capable of knowing what believing means.. when it comes to Christ.

Do you disagree?

Anyone can read His word... but not everyone understands what he reads.


So, do the church associations that I mentioned above not understand what they read?

Anyone, no matter what their background, past, parents, beliefs... can be part of the body of Christ... if they believe and obey.

Don't cross out "beliefs".. You can believe in Buddha...Islam..... David Koresh even.. and change to believe in Jesus Christ... and be saved.

Yes, anyone who believes and obeys..... ANYONE... not just those who were fortunate enough to be born into a house that has RCC parents.

The church.. The body of Christ.... the following that began to be called Christians after His death... up to this day. Those that "Do this in remembrance of Me..... every single one... Is the true Church and Christ's bride.
 
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Junia

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Jesus was speaking to Pharisees who were under the law. He criticised them for keeping the law down to its smallest detail, no doubt believing that this was good and what made them righteous, and yet neglected the big, important things like mercy, justice and faith.

He does not say "all those who follow, and believe in, me HAVE to tithe.
And at any rate, the OT tithe was food, not money. They took their food to to temple and had a feast, not forgetting the poor and those without allotments; they ate their tithe.
The tithe today is "give 10% of your money to the church; this is Scriptural."

Amen. Under the new covenenat we give freely and cheerfully to the "ekklesia" (church/fellow believers) whatever we are able to, whatever God has laid on our hearts to give.

I have known people who have felt they had to tithe or live under a curse so they gave even though the money they gave was from an overdraft or caused them to be in debt. Some even felt they had to tithe disability cheques from the government or child benefit cheques from the government or be cursed or go to hell..... the latter is literally a case of immoral churches taking bread from the mouths of hungry children..... a modern day equivalent of devouring the widow's house methinks :(
 
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Junia

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I believe giving can cause God to bless us, and even if the reward is in the next life, it is well worth doing if we can. However to say we under a curse if we don't tithe is like saying Jesus death on the cross for us was insufficient to cancel curses against us
 
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Junia

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Did the Father make is about His Son?

We don't call it "Fatherism" do we?

And didn't the Father give all things of His to the Son?

The fact is that we call ourselves Christians, not Godtians, Fahtertian, Biblians, but Christians. And from what I read, that is because the Father choose to glorify His only begotten Son, by having everything made through Him, by putting Him on the throne, by giving Him all the things the Father has, and by ultimately setting all things at His feet. Then Jesus says that He will never leave us and that His sheep hear His voice, and the Spirit says that Jesus Christ is Lord. Or what did you read when you read the Bible?

Ps 2:6 But as for Me, I have instralled My King upon Zion, My holy mountain.
Ps 2:12 Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way
Is 11:2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him...
Jn 16:15 All things that the Father has are Mine
Jn18:36 Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not of the world"
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord

So it is not like saying "is it the Father or the Son" It is like confessing with your mouth Jesus as Lord!

Are we Christians because we say we are Christians, or are we Christians by in fact Jesus Christ is our Lord?

That seems like a fundamental question - doesn't it? As for me, I have a Lord who I can hear from. He gives me instructions. The first instruction He gave me was "Read your Bible" but that didn't mean I follow the Bible but rather it meant I follow the One who first told me to read my Bible, and He speaks to me everyday call "Today" So I think as a Christian I am a fundamentalist but apparently not like others who are saying the same thing about themselves.

For example - If you ask me 'How do I know what angers God and what pleases God?'

My answer is that I ask Him!!

It is written that His sheep hear His voice, and so I do not find it so amazing that I get a response from Him. Of course I would, otherwise the Bible would be wrong. Yet the Bible is not wrong, so I hear answers. Love pleases Him. Listening to Him and obeying, pleases Him. Just being kind to others pleases Him. My friends - believing in Him - that He is there for you pleases Him.

So I read the Bible like He told me to and that pleased Him, and I continue to listen to Him (though I admit I am far from perfect at that) and listening to Him continues to please Him. So I call myself a Christian because I count Him as my Lord, meaning that I do listen to Him and do what He says, at least that is what I try to do however imperfect I am at doing it.

So I do not count myself as a fundamentalist because I read the Bible, I count myself as a fundamentalist because I listen to Him and try to do what He says - like reading my Bible because He told me. So I am a Christian in deed and fact, because I follow the Christ.

As a footnote: I was going through a divorce when He came into my life. Since He came into my life I got married again. He literally set me up with my second wife about 15 years ago. At that time He had me ask one Pastor if he would perform the marriage, but that pastor wouldn't. I had been married before. So I ask my Lord again what I should do, and He told me to ask this other pastor and he agreed. Both were pastors in the same church, but who was listening to the Lord? The marriage was actually done in a rose garden, because my wife loved roses. In fact My Lord often used "Rose" as a nick name for her even before we got married. That was 15 years ago and her and I are so very happy. She has planted roses all around my house and blessed it soo much. I recommend a fundamentalist, meaning making Jesus Christ the fundamental part of your life. He promised life and that more abundantly. Perhaps you read about that in the Bible?

amen i love the rose garden thing and God using the nickname Rose for your wife. The Lord has used roses to minister to me and has given me visions of (and a song about) red roses as a symbol of His love for me. I have received many prophetic words about His love for me being everlasting, like a marriage covenant
 
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Tradidi

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I'm pretty sure that almost every Baptist, Pentecostal, Christian reform, Associated Gospel, and other Protestant churches.. are just as capable of knowing what believing means.. when it comes to Christ.

Do you disagree?

I disagree.

So, do the church associations that I mentioned above not understand what they read?

They do not understand.

Don't cross out "beliefs".. You can believe in Buddha...Islam..... David Koresh even.. and change to believe in Jesus Christ... and be saved.

Your past does not matter, what matters is the state of your soul the moment you die.

Yes, anyone who believes and obeys..... ANYONE... not just those who were fortunate enough to be born into a house that has RCC parents.

Yes, ANYONE who believes and obeys.

The church.. The body of Christ.... the following that began to be called Christians after His death... up to this day. Those that "Do this in remembrance of Me..... every single one... Is the true Church and Christ's bride.

Yes, those that have the Eucharist, the true Presence of Our Lord, and that eat His flesh and drink His blood worthily, as He commanded us to do.
 
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K2K

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Unfortunately, that is not the case. In Luke chapter 10, Christ selected 72 men and sent them on a mission, adding in verse 16 that "He that heareth you heareth me: and he that despiseth you despiseth me: and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."

Anyone who despises the one sent by Christ, despises Christ Himself. And that includes fundamentalists. They simply refuse to accept that God has selected certain men and sent them on a mission, and that He thus speaks through His Church. Instead they demand that God speaks to them each individually and directly. In fact, they even claim that He does, and end up contradicting each other and fighting over each and every doctrine. Only the Catholic Church has unity in her doctrine, unity in time as well as unity in space.

PS: I'm pleased to hear you like Padre Pio. If you dare to, pray for his help because he was a true miracle worker and still works miracles today!

If someone is sent by the Lord it is because they heard from Him. Note that Saul was not one of those 72, but after the cross he heard from the Lord Jesus Christ on the road. So anyone who is actually 'sent' by the Lord hears from the Lord. Of course that has to be the case - but consider - If the Lord is always with you then are you not going to listen to Him while ministering to others? I worked in a Christian healing ministry for five years and I wouldn't considering trying to do that without actually trying to listen to the voice of the Lord for instructions about how to proceed and what to say/pray.

So of course is they heard from me were actually hearing the words and instructions that I got from Him!

Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him, and while I don't only say and do only what the Lord tells me, while I am ministering for Him I make every effort to do that. Incredibly miracles happen when you do that! Do you understand why miracles happened around Padre Pio? They happened because he made it about listening to the Lord.

Which make your last statement about seeking Padre Pio simply extremely silly to me. We don't seek men, not even other men which are even better at seeking and hearing from the Lord than us. We make is about seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listening to Him, like other men of God like Padre Pio!

My friend - I have seen the Lord do hundreds of miracles around me when I seek after Him and do, say, and pray like He tells me via the Holy Spirit. The reason I like what I read about Padre Pio is that you could tell by the writings that He was doing what I just told you. He was seeking the Lord Jesus Christ and seeing incredible things happen around Him. Even greater things that I have seen, and I have seen the Lord grow out legs while I was watching, I have a man come in needing a walker and walk out of the healing ministry holding the walker over his head. I saw a woman come in who was going in for heart surgery the next day, felt the presence of the Lord fall with power, and the next day when she went for surgery they sent her home because they couldn't find the problem in the pre-surgery check. So I find it funny that you think I might pray to Padre Pio, instead of Jesus Christ, for instructions that lead to miracles.

NAB Mark 16:19, 20 Then after speaking to them, the Lord Jesus was taken up into heaven and took his seat at God's right hand. The Eleven went forth and preached everywhere. The Lord continued to work with them throughout and confirm the message through the signs which accompanied them.

The NAB of course is a Catholic translation. Do you see how the Lord, though He had taken up a seat at God's right hand, continued to work with them? Then the message, which is about Him, was confirmed through the signs with accompanied them? That same thing is still how it works. The Lord works with you, if you seek Him, listen, and do what He says, and signs and wonders happen because He is working with you and confirming what He tells you!! It is explained right there in your Bible! But you think I am going to trying and work with Padre Pio instead of Jesus Christ.

Again - Jesus Christ is the cornerstone, meaning the fundamental piece to Christianity! Listen to Him and do what He says and signs and wonders will happen!! That is what you should have learned from the Bible, and what you even should have learned from reading about Padre Pio.

Yet concerning Padre Pio, here is something I got out of a book about him called Padre Pio: The True Story by c. Bernad Ruffin

"Padre Pio's advice to his spiritual children can be summed up in ten points, all of which appy to daily living.

1. Put your trust in Christ as your personal Savior."

That is what I have been trying to tell you! The number one thing is putting your trust in Christ as your personal Savior! If your personal savior then He is the fundamental part of Christianity. If your personal savior then you are seeking Him for your own personal advice! But you think I am going to seek Padre Pio instead of Christ? You need to read a bit more from your Bible and include a bit more about Padre Pio too. He knew it was about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not Him. That is why he saw miracles! That is why I have seen miracles! Lot of them, because the Lord still works with His disciples who seek Him and listen!
 
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Junia

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One of the problems with fundamentalism is that it picks and chooses what should be fundamental. If it was somehow decided that it was fundamental to sell what one has and give it to the poor, fundamentalism would be just as rare as Christian unity is today.

yes, I agree. Although I believe that specific command from Jesus was to one individual. But we can all take the principle from it that we are to surrender all to Jesus and give up anything that gets between us and Him. That was how that [passage was explained to me- it used to bother me because I don't own any property and have nothing of value to sell. no assets, hardly any income once bills etc paid. Then someone who knew the Word explianed that the issue was the rich young ruler just couldn't bring himself to sell his assets. Those without assets (like me) are to surrender anythign else in our lives that gets between us and Jesu

About the picking and choosing though- yes. and it keeps changing- the goalposts keep moving all the time, what is forbidden and what isn't.

Regarding church marriages, I have also seen the opposite in some Fundamnetalist churches- they have an issue with having a state marriage licence. They actually say it is ok to live together as man and wife because God or their pastor has declared it such. I believe this is more a fringe movement though not mainstream. It seems to be linked to those sects that are into biblical womanhood, gender roles type teachings (non-Egalatarian). Those same also forbid vaccines, public schools, the welfare state. Apparently using anything from the state means being "of the world". I think they jumping the gun a bit Until the Beast appears with his NWO and mark, we can be part of the world public systems eg schools welfare etc
 
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Tradidi

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If someone is sent by the Lord it is because they heard from Him. Note that Saul was not one of those 72, but after the cross he heard from the Lord Jesus Christ on the road. So anyone who is actually 'sent' by the Lord hears from the Lord.

You are so very mistaken. When the Lord appeared to Saul, Saul asked Him "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said to him: Arise and go into the city; and there it shall be told thee what thou must do." (Acts 9:6-7)

The only mission that the Lord gave to Saul directly was to "go into the city and there it shall be told thee what thou must do". And who told Saul what to do? Ananias. In other words, the Lord told Saul to go and listen to the Church!

Notice also that after meeting the Lord Saul was blind, but that his sight was restored through the ministry of Ananias. This parallels and symbolises the fact that Saul was not instructed in the faith by the Lord directly, but through the Church, just as his sight was not restored by God directly, but by God through His Church.

I could go on and on and on..

It is really sad to see how Protestants read their own false theology into Scripture left, right and centre, and twist these Scriptures unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)

With regards to your fantasies about Padre Pio, I found the explanation at the end of your post:

Yet concerning Padre Pio, here is something I got out of a book about him called Padre Pio: The True Story by c. Bernad Ruffin

As it usually goes with Protestants, they "learn everything they need to know about Catholics and the Catholic Church" from... non-Catholics. Bernad Ruffin was a Lutheran.

If you just like to rubberneck Padre Pio's miracles, your Lutheran book may satisfy your curiosity. But if you want to know what Padre Pio believed and taught, read what Katerina Tangari, a fellow Catholic, wrote about him: Stories of Padre Pio.

But you think I am going to seek Padre Pio instead of Christ?

That's like Saul saying, "do you think I am going to seek Ananias instead of Christ?" If Padre Pio can help you find Christ, by all means, go and ask his help. But it sounds to me your were more interested in Padre Pio's miracles than in getting his help finding Christ.

For example, Padre Pio spent long days in the confessional, which is where the true miracles happened. When was the last time you went to confession, if ever?

That is what I have been trying to tell you! The number one thing is putting your trust in Christ as your personal Savior!

So what does it mean to you "to put your trust in Christ"? What the average Protestant really means by this, in practice, is "trusting that Christ will save you, no matter what". But Christ told you to listen to the Church, to do penance, to confess your sins, to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, etc.. And you reply: "Oh no, not met, I just put my trust in Christ". Hollow words!

Catholics put their trust in Christ by obeying His commands, ALL of them, without playing on words and making excuses for themselves.
 
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JIMINZ

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The Bible didn't even exist until three and a half centuries after the original Christian Church was founded by Jesus Christ.

The Bible as we know it to be sure.

But I consider the individual Epistles (letters) written by the Apostles to be the Bible of it's time. it gave to the Churches they were written to knowledge.

2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Did Paul write these words speaking about Scripture before or after the Canon of the Bible was compiled?

Was Paul ONLY speaking of the Old Testament when he wrote this?

It's not what man or the Church did with Gods Word, it's only what God did with His Words to Believers, and it would appear as though, God made sure His Children had the Words (Bible) they needed at the time they needed it.
 
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Tradidi

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Did Paul write these words speaking about Scripture before or after the Canon of the Bible was compiled?
Before.

Was Paul ONLY speaking of the Old Testament when he wrote this?
Yes.

It's not what man or the Church did with Gods Word, it's only what God did with His Words to Believers, and it would appear as though, God made sure His Children had the Words (Bible) they needed at the time they needed it.
And your point is?
 
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Strong in Him

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Amen. Under the new covenenat we give freely and cheerfully to the "ekklesia" (church/fellow believers) whatever we are able to, whatever God has laid on our hearts to give.

I have known people who have felt they had to tithe or live under a curse so they gave even though the money they gave was from an overdraft or caused them to be in debt. Some even felt they had to tithe disability cheques from the government or child benefit cheques from the government or be cursed or go to hell..... the latter is literally a case of immoral churches taking bread from the mouths of hungry children..... a modern day equivalent of devouring the widow's house methinks :(

I have heard stories like that; it's sickening.

A member of my last church had once belonged to an independent/free church.
One of the questions she asked me before deciding whether or not to join us was "how much do I have to give?" I told her that any money she wanted to give to the church was between herself and God.
She was surprised and relieved. In her previous church, someone had literally sat down next to her and tried to work out with her the areas in which she could save money so that she could give more to the church. :(:mad:
 
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K2K

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You are so very mistaken. When the Lord appeared to Saul, Saul asked Him "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said to him: Arise and go into the city; and there it shall be told thee what thou must do." (Acts 9:6-7)

The only mission that the Lord gave to Saul directly was to "go into the city and there it shall be told thee what thou must do". And who told Saul what to do? Ananias. In other words, the Lord told Saul to go and listen to the Church!

Notice also that after meeting the Lord Saul was blind, but that his sight was restored through the ministry of Ananias. This parallels and symbolises the fact that Saul was not instructed in the faith by the Lord directly, but through the Church, just as his sight was not restored by God directly, but by God through His Church.

I could go on and on and on..

It is really sad to see how Protestants read their own false theology into Scripture left, right and centre, and twist these Scriptures unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)

With regards to your fantasies about Padre Pio, I found the explanation at the end of your post:



As it usually goes with Protestants, they "learn everything they need to know about Catholics and the Catholic Church" from... non-Catholics. Bernad Ruffin was a Lutheran.

If you just like to rubberneck Padre Pio's miracles, your Lutheran book may satisfy your curiosity. But if you want to know what Padre Pio believed and taught, read what Katerina Tangari, a fellow Catholic, wrote about him: Stories of Padre Pio.



That's like Saul saying, "do you think I am going to seek Ananias instead of Christ?" If Padre Pio can help you find Christ, by all means, go and ask his help. But it sounds to me your were more interested in Padre Pio's miracles than in getting his help finding Christ.

For example, Padre Pio spent long days in the confessional, which is where the true miracles happened. When was the last time you went to confession, if ever?



So what does it mean to you "to put your trust in Christ"? What the average Protestant really means by this, in practice, is "trusting that Christ will save you, no matter what". But Christ told you to listen to the Church, to do penance, to confess your sins, to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, etc.. And you reply: "Oh no, not met, I just put my trust in Christ". Hollow words!

Catholics put their trust in Christ by obeying His commands, ALL of them, without playing on words and making excuses for themselves.

Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen to the instruction of the LORD;

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

What you fail to understand is that when you come to know the Lord you hear Him regularly. You should at least at time be hearing Him telling you which way to turn every time you turn to the right or to the left. Literally, you will be driving down the road and He will tell you when to turn to the right, left, go straight, and often how fast He wants you to go. The Bible explains this but can person understand it if they won't seek the Lord and make Him your cornerstone and foundation?

So you read one thing and incident with Saul and failed to apply what Isaiah wrote to understand that after the Lord told Saul to go one place He still keep telling Him more after that. The Bible isn't going to tell you everything that happen! Have you not even read where it was explained that if all that Jesus did was written down perhaps the whole world could hold it? That was just in three years, and how many books could be fit into the earth? Perhaps a billion, billion, billion or more?

Jesus explain He did and said only what the Father tells Him. So it is possible to actually hear the Lord for every word you are to speak in a day. I say it is possible, but it is not going to happen because we don't seek Him like that. Besides, we are not the Word of God, Jesus is. Never-the-less, we can hear Him every time we turn to the right of the left if we listen, but can you actually accept what is written in the Bible?

So what does it mean to put your trust in Christ? It means you should seek Him even for the words you say!! Jesus did!! But some will try to tell you that you should just say anything you want and God will make it ok. But that is not putting your trust in Him but in you, in your thinking, in your ideas, in your thoughts. It's called pride. We all do that too much, but at least we should know we do that.

Do you really want to know what being humble is? It is not thinking your are smarter that God. That shows up by your seeking Him and His thoughts and not you and your thoughts - which simply means you seek His voice and listen.

You know a good example of this in the Bible is where Moses on the instruction of the Lord personally speaking to Him heads though the desert to Egypt. And at the same time Aaron also hears the Lord speaking to him to go out into the desert where he is going to meet Moses.

Now let me tell you, unless you have been listening to the Lord a lot you are not just going to take off into the big wide desert believing you are going to meet someone just based on that still small quite voice inside that sound only like a thought inside you. The more you write the more you explain who you don't know.

I have been hearing from Him about a dozen times a day for about 20 years now and it is still hard when the Lord, in that still small voice of His suddenly tells you that someone in the room is have a problem, like say a knee problem, and He tells you to go pray for it. It sounds easy but frankly it is really weird, strange, challenging and hard to go up to someone and start asking them about the pain in their knee. I still find it hard to do, and He has had me do that soo many times.

Honestly, you will never know or understand until you start seek Him and His voice regularly!!

Prov 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

It doesn't come from your thinking, and your thinking that you trust Him to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want. It comes from listening to Him and His instructions. False sons are those you refuse to listen to the instructions of the Lord.

It is not time in confessionals, like you suppose, but time spent talking to the Lord and listening, which Padre Pio probably did in confessionals and other places too. You say confessionals because you still don't understand the personal relationship that Padre Pio put as #1.
 
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Tradidi

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Is 30:9 For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen to the instruction of the LORD;

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

What you fail to understand is that when you come to know the Lord you hear Him regularly. You should at least at time be hearing Him telling you which way to turn every time you turn to the right or to the left. Literally, you will be driving down the road and He will tell you when to turn to the right, left, go straight, and often how fast He wants you to go. The Bible explains this but can person understand it if they won't seek the Lord and make Him your cornerstone and foundation?

So you read one thing and incident with Saul and failed to apply what Isaiah wrote to understand that after the Lord told Saul to go one place He still keep telling Him more after that. The Bible isn't going to tell you everything that happen! Have you not even read where it was explained that if all that Jesus did was written down perhaps the whole world could hold it? That was just in three years, and how many books could be fit into the earth? Perhaps a billion, billion, billion or more?

Jesus explain He did and said only what the Father tells Him. So it is possible to actually hear the Lord for every word you are to speak in a day. I say it is possible, but it is not going to happen because we don't seek Him like that. Besides, we are not the Word of God, Jesus is. Never-the-less, we can hear Him every time we turn to the right of the left if we listen, but can you actually accept what is written in the Bible?

So what does it mean to put your trust in Christ? It means you should seek Him even for the words you say!! Jesus did!! But some will try to tell you that you should just say anything you want and God will make it ok. But that is not putting your trust in Him but in you, in your thinking, in your ideas, in your thoughts. It's called pride. We all do that too much, but at least we should know we do that.

Do you really want to know what being humble is? It is not thinking your are smarter that God. That shows up by your seeking Him and His thoughts and not you and your thoughts - which simply means you seek His voice and listen.

You know a good example of this in the Bible is where Moses on the instruction of the Lord personally speaking to Him heads though the desert to Egypt. And at the same time Aaron also hears the Lord speaking to him to go out into the desert where he is going to meet Moses.

Now let me tell you, unless you have been listening to the Lord a lot you are not just going to take off into the big wide desert believing you are going to meet someone just based on that still small quite voice inside that sound only like a thought inside you. The more you write the more you explain who you don't know.

I have been hearing from Him about a dozen times a day for about 20 years now and it is still hard when the Lord, in that still small voice of His suddenly tells you that someone in the room is have a problem, like say a knee problem, and He tells you to go pray for it. It sounds easy but frankly it is really weird, strange, challenging and hard to go up to someone and start asking them about the pain in their knee. I still find it hard to do, and He has had me do that soo many times.

Honestly, you will never know or understand until you start seek Him and His voice regularly!!

Prov 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

It doesn't come from your thinking, and your thinking that you trust Him to be able to do whatever you want whenever you want. It comes from listening to Him and His instructions. False sons are those you refuse to listen to the instructions of the Lord.

It is not time in confessionals, like you suppose, but time spent talking to the Lord and listening, which Padre Pio probably did in confessionals and other places too. You say confessionals because you still don't understand the personal relationship that Padre Pio put as #1.
One thing puzzles me about your reply. You have already told me that you don't need the Church, but what about the Scriptures? Where do they fit into your theology? If you have a direct line of communication with God, what need do you have for the Scriptures? In fact, practically everything you just said is based on your own "experiences", and not on Scripture. Why is that?
 
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JIMINZ

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If Protestants believe in "Sola Scriptura", then how can they ignore 2 Thessalonians 2:15? That conflicts with "Sola Scriptura", doesn't it? Where do Protestants find the "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible?

Being a Catholic, do you really want to go into things which are not found in the Bible.

No one has said it was found in the Bible, it a Belief, I'm sure you will understand the word Dogma as applied to the concept of Sola Scriptura, because the Trinity isn't mentioned either BUT, Catholics believe in the Trinity don't they?

OK lets take a very close look at 2 Th. 2:15. Using the Dreaded Sola Scriptura, for this is what Sola Scriptura is all about, clarifying just what the Bible does say, by using the Bible to actually do the clarifying, lets see what we find.

2 Th 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the (TRADITIONS) which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Here is your word.
TRADITIONS:
G3862
παράδοσις
paradosis
par-ad'-os-is
Transmission, that is, (concretely) a precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law: - ordinance, tradition.

To begin with, what Paul said was,
"stand fast, and hold the (TRADITIONS) which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Notice, the first word in the Definition, (TRANSMISSION) then notice, what Paul said the mode of Transmission for these Traditions was, (They were either spoken or written) notice, it does not say how many times these Traditions were written or spoken, nor does it say how long ago these Traditions were
written or spoken, therefore we can conclude what Paul said, which would fall into the category of (Tradition-s) could have been either written or spoken by him 2 days before. (Do you agree with that Conclusion)?

Next, in BLUE notice it says
"(concretely) a precept;" then it says in RED,
"specifically the Jewish traditionary law:" then again in RED it tells us what constitutes the Jewish Traditionary Law, which would be,
ordinance, tradition.

Now in order to keep things clear and leaving no room for Misunderstanding.
I have used both Greek and Hebrew, in order to alleviate any ambiguity.

To words, (ORDINANCE, TRADITION)


ORDINANCE:
GREEK:
G1296
διαταγή
diatagē
dee-at-ag-ay'
From G1299; arrangement, that is, institution: - instrumentality.

G1299
διατάσσω
diatassō
dee-at-as'-so
To arrange thoroughly, that is, (specifically) institute, prescribe, etc.: - appoint, command, give, (set in) order, ordain.

ORDINANCE:
HEBREW:
H2706
חֹק
chôq
khoke
An enactment; hence an appointment (of time, space, quantity, labor or usage): - appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decree (-d), due, law, measure, X necessary, ordinance (-nary), portion, set time, statute, task.

H2708
חֻקָּה
chûqqâh
khook-kaw'
Feminine of H2706, and meaning substantially the same: - appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.

TRADITION:
I was going to post the definitions of the word TRADITIONS in the Hebrew, but upon looking, Both of these words were not used in the Old Testament.

Therefore I believe we are able to conclude, Paul was not speaking about the Traditions of the Jews when he wrote his second Epistle to the Thessalonians.

So then what Traditions was Paul speaking about?

Now knowing what Ordinance, and Tradition(s) mean, lets shift our attention to the last word found in the Definition of the word Tradition(s) that word being (PRECEPT).

The word Precept is found in the New Testament 2 times, both times the word is in reference to Moses and his giving of the Law to the People (Nation).

PRECEPT:
GREEK:
G1785
ἐντολή
entolē
en-tol-ay'
From G1781; injunction, that is, an authoritative prescription: - commandment, precept.

G1781
ἐντέλλομαι
entellomai
en-tel'-lom-ahee
To enjoin: - (give) charge, (give) command(-ments), injoin.



PRECEPT:
HEBREW:
H6673
צָו צַו
tsav tsâv
tsav, tsawv
From H6680; an injunction: - commandment, precept.

H6680
צָוָה
tsâvâh
tsaw-vaw'
A primitive root; (intensively) to constitute, enjoin: - appoint, (for-) bid. (give a) charge, (give a, give in, send with) command (-er, ment), send a messenger, put, (set) in order.

Therefore the Traditions spoken of by Paul were the Commandments of Our Lord.

What other Traditions do you suppose Paul was speaking of?
Was he telling the Thessalonians, to keep "The Traditions of the Catholic Church" before the Catholic Church had even come into being through Constantine?
 
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Tradidi

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Being a Catholic, do you really want to go into things which are not found in the Bible.

No one has said it was found in the Bible, it a Belief, I'm sure you will understand the word Dogma as applied to the concept of Sola Scriptura, because the Trinity isn't mentioned either BUT, Catholics believe in the Trinity don't they?

OK lets take a very close look at 2 Th. 2:15. Using the Dreaded Sola Scriptura, for this is what Sola Scriptura is all about, clarifying just what the Bible does say, by using the Bible to actually do the clarifying, lets see what we find.

2 Th 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the (TRADITIONS) which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Here is your word.
TRADITIONS:
G3862
παράδοσις
paradosis
par-ad'-os-is
Transmission, that is, (concretely) a precept; specifically the Jewish traditionary law: - ordinance, tradition.

To begin with, what Paul said was,
"stand fast, and hold the (TRADITIONS) which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Notice, the first word in the Definition, (TRANSMISSION) then notice, what Paul said the mode of Transmission for these Traditions was, (They were either spoken or written) notice, it does not say how many times these Traditions were written or spoken, nor does it say how long ago these Traditions were
written or spoken, therefore we can conclude what Paul said, which would fall into the category of (Tradition-s) could have been either written or spoken by him 2 days before. (Do you agree with that Conclusion)?

Next, in BLUE notice it says
"(concretely) a precept;" then it says in RED,
"specifically the Jewish traditionary law:" then again in RED it tells us what constitutes the Jewish Traditionary Law, which would be,
ordinance, tradition.

Now in order to keep things clear and leaving no room for Misunderstanding.
I have used both Greek and Hebrew, in order to alleviate any ambiguity.

To words, (ORDINANCE, TRADITION)


ORDINANCE:
GREEK:
G1296
διαταγή
diatagē
dee-at-ag-ay'
From G1299; arrangement, that is, institution: - instrumentality.

G1299
διατάσσω
diatassō
dee-at-as'-so
To arrange thoroughly, that is, (specifically) institute, prescribe, etc.: - appoint, command, give, (set in) order, ordain.

ORDINANCE:
HEBREW:
H2706
חֹק
chôq
khoke
An enactment; hence an appointment (of time, space, quantity, labor or usage): - appointed, bound, commandment, convenient, custom, decree (-d), due, law, measure, X necessary, ordinance (-nary), portion, set time, statute, task.

H2708
חֻקָּה
chûqqâh
khook-kaw'
Feminine of H2706, and meaning substantially the same: - appointed, custom, manner, ordinance, site, statute.

TRADITION:
I was going to post the definitions of the word TRADITIONS in the Hebrew, but upon looking, Both of these words were not used in the Old Testament.

Therefore I believe we are able to conclude, Paul was not speaking about the Traditions of the Jews when he wrote his second Epistle to the Thessalonians.

So then what Traditions was Paul speaking about?

Now knowing what Ordinance, and Tradition(s) mean, lets shift our attention to the last word found in the Definition of the word Tradition(s) that word being (PRECEPT).

The word Precept is found in the New Testament 2 times, both times the word is in reference to Moses and his giving of the Law to the People (Nation).

PRECEPT:
GREEK:
G1785
ἐντολή
entolē
en-tol-ay'
From G1781; injunction, that is, an authoritative prescription: - commandment, precept.

G1781
ἐντέλλομαι
entellomai
en-tel'-lom-ahee
To enjoin: - (give) charge, (give) command(-ments), injoin.



PRECEPT:
HEBREW:
H6673
צָו צַו
tsav tsâv
tsav, tsawv
From H6680; an injunction: - commandment, precept.

H6680
צָוָה
tsâvâh
tsaw-vaw'
A primitive root; (intensively) to constitute, enjoin: - appoint, (for-) bid. (give a) charge, (give a, give in, send with) command (-er, ment), send a messenger, put, (set) in order.

Therefore the Traditions spoken of by Paul were the Commandments of Our Lord.

What other Traditions do you suppose Paul was speaking of?
Was he telling the Thessalonians, to keep "The Traditions of the Catholic Church" before the Catholic Church had even come into being through Constantine?
This is a classic example of the kind of mental gymnastics Protestants have to do to "explain" their fantasies, thereby nullifying the Word of God.

2 Peter 3:16 comes to mind.
 
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A_Thinker

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No, anyone who does not submit to the authority that Christ has instituted is outside of the Church, the mystical body of Christ. How do we know? Because Christ said so.
Christ has not established such an authority, ... certainly not in fallible men ...

Matthew 20

25 But Jesus called them aside and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their superiors exercise authority over them.

26 It shall not be this way among you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.”
 
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