I'm all for fundamentalism but this is too far.

[Hank77]

There's always a precept in there to provide for the poor, it's just the way God does things. I believe this was the section I was reflecting on.

Deuteronomy 14
28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
1 ¶ At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release.
2 And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD’S release.

Yes, the third-year tithe. I studied it a lot several years ago but haven't really considered it much in several yrs. Most Bible scholars say that they tithed around 22% when you add up all the tithes.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, the third-year tithe. I studied it a lot several years ago but haven't really considered it much in several yrs. Most Bible scholars say that they tithed around 22% when you add up all the tithes.

I recall in one of the prophetic discourses, God was using heavy sarcasm because they only paid a tithe every three years.

 

[Hank77]

I recall in one of the prophetic discourses, God was using heavy sarcasm because they only paid a tithe every three years.

I don't recognize that, if you can find it please post it.
I do recall in Malachi where it talks about robbing God and for a long time, I believed that God was talking about the people not paying their tithe because that is what I was taught but He wasn't it was the priests that were robbing God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I don't recognize that, if you can find it please post it.
I do recall in Malachi where it talks about robbing God and for a long time, I believed that God was talking about the people not paying their tithe because that is what I was taught but He wasn't it was the priests that were robbing God.

There we go, it was in Amos.

Am 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

 

[Hank77]

There we go, it was in Amos.

Am 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

I'll have to do some reading around that. Thanks

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I'll have to do some reading around that. Thanks

Bless.

 

[Phil W]

If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!

There is no profit, $$$$, in adhering to the bible's definition of marriage.

 

[Hank77]

There we go, it was in Amos.

Am 4:4 Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

Come to Bethel, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years; 5And offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving with leaven, and proclaim and publish the free offerings; for so ye love to do, O ye children of Israel, saith the LORD God. 6And I also have given you cleanness of teeth in all your cities, and lack {want} of bread in all your places; yet have ye not returned unto Me, saith the LORD. 7

So I understand that Israel was in idolatry and they were using the things of God in the wrong way. I not sure about the sacrifices every morning, tithes were every year, sacrifice with leaven rather than without leaven, and bragging and boasting about free offerings.
God sent famine but they wouldn't turn from their idolatrous ways.

So I don't think this is talking about the third-year tithe that you rightfully pointed out as a valid tithe.

 

[chilehed]

how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible?

Wasn't a problem for Christians before the Bible was written.

 

[JIMINZ]

I'm with you on almost all the things you mentioned except tithing. It's ultimately up to you on whether you want to be blessed as a result of giving. But you said that there's not a single verse that talks about tithing in the new testament. I'm going to post one and leave it at that.

Matthew 23:23 - "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things."

You may as well leave it at that, it was referring to the Old Covenant, even though it was recorded in the New Testament, Jesus was speaking to the Pharisee which were still under the Law at that time, Jesus had not yet been Crucified, and it remains, there is no mention of Tithing for the Christian in the New Testament under the New Covenant.

To be correct about it, God does not expect 10% of your first fruits, He expects 100% of everything you make, but He may not require it of you, He just wants Christians to be open to giving 100% if called upon by Him to do so, it isn't a Law like it was to the Jews, it is a condition of the heart after conversion.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

That's because marriage was largely looked at as an institution in the ancient world. And the basic institution of marriage that we see in the Old Testament is older the Judaism. Anyway marriage as an institution is why pagan marriages were recognized by Jews and Christians (they recognized the institution and realized it was good and necessary for society).


But I think it also worth pointing out that in the ancient world women and children were chattel. And that actually is one reason weddings were done outside of a temple or other holy place; because it was a kind of a business transaction for the good of the family etc. You had to pay a bride price to get your wife and compensate the father for that loss of property. (Later on that bride price, evolved into a dowry that the wife was to keep as a severance payment in the event that the husband died early or divorced her.)


But that being said, saint Paul has a lot of stuff to say about marriage as a holy mystery. So treating marriage in a more sacramental sense with Church weddings etc. is very fitting.

 

[DamianWarS]

If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!

Philippians 4:8, NIV: "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things."

both fundamentalist and non fundamentalist can learn from this. You're right it's not about a church building focus, it's about giving glory to God and for many years the church was the de facto center for this to happen. However there is no holy/secular divide and the center where this happens is not in a building but innately in ourselves wherever we find ourselves. Following Christ consumes your life not just special areas of it. Both fundamentalist and non need to do some redefining.

 

[lsume]

If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!

The example you cited regarding the opinion about where one needs to be married in God’s Eyes was obviously incorrect. Man’s ways have infected organized churches for sure. The Truth comes when Christ comes to you and you are awakened. There is one Truth and Christ must Teach us all. I have prayed for you. Perhaps a new church to visit? The Church that Christ is building is almost complete I fear. I’m not an end times expert and I don’t generally study end times. However, I do believe that in 1948 when Israel became a nation, many prophesies were then enabled. Which have been fulfilled? They are certainly surrounded by their enemies!

 

[public hermit]

One of the problems with fundamentalism is that it picks and chooses what should be fundamental. If it was somehow decided that it was fundamental to sell what one has and give it to the poor, fundamentalism would be just as rare as Christian unity is today.

 

[Dave L]

If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!

You will find many wacko sects who identify as fundies. But you should define them by their key writings. The Fundamentals by RA Torry is a good start. Text Commentaries by R. A. Torrey

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm with you on almost all the things you mentioned except tithing. It's ultimately up to you on whether you want to be blessed as a result of giving. But you said that there's not a single verse that talks about tithing in the new testament. I'm going to post one and leave it at that.

Matthew 23:23 - "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things."

Jesus was speaking to Pharisees who were under the law. He criticised them for keeping the law down to its smallest detail, no doubt believing that this was good and what made them righteous, and yet neglected the big, important things like mercy, justice and faith.

He does not say "all those who follow, and believe in, me HAVE to tithe.
And at any rate, the OT tithe was food, not money. They took their food to to temple and had a feast, not forgetting the poor and those without allotments; they ate their tithe.
The tithe today is "give 10% of your money to the church; this is Scriptural."

 

[Redwingfan9]

If you ask me the Bible should be the central point of every Christians life for how do we know how to be a Christian without the Bible? How do we know what angers God and what pleases God? How do we know anything about creation or theology without reading and applying the Bible? I'm all for the fundamentalist movement but theres fundamentalism and there's fundamentalism taken WAY too far.

If theres one thing I cannot stand it's a fundamentalist that tries to push their views on another Christian, WITHOUT IT EVEN BEING IN THE BIBLE! An example? Fundamentalists who say in order to be married in the eyes of God you have to have a church wedding. Otherwise you're not married and are living in sin when you have relations together or just even spend time together.


Cool, only it's NOT in the Bible. There isn't a single verse in scripture that says only a church wedding is valid. The Bible has plenty to say on premarital sex, and divorce but it says NOTHING about what marriages are valid in the eyes of God. Instead the Binle says that ALL heterosexual marriage is a gift from God.

Or the fundamentalist church that says that in order to follow the Bible you must tithe. Bzzt! Wrong! Not ONE verse in the New Testament says that tithing (or giving of any kind) is technically required. You want to give your church? Do so. But don't give in to this fundamentalist hogwash that if you don't tithe than you arent following the Bible it just isnt true.

Or when they try to tell you what music to listen to. Honestly? Unless it isnt talking about death, sex, or cusses every 13 seconds there technically isnt anything wrong with it. The Bible says absolutely nothing about most kinds of music out there. Whether it be rock, rap, country music, or anything.

The fundamentalist movement is a fantastic movement. I'm a fundamentalist myself. But before you go out and declare what being a fundamentalist is actually about , make sure you actually have your facts straight. Please!

It strikes me that much of this is a stawman. There is no fundamentalist church that represents the views of all fundamentalists such that we can paint with a broad brush.

I will agree there is a profound lack of Biblical literacy in much of the American church. When the mainline protestants broke from historic Christian theology in the 1920s it began a march towards a society and church that knows little about scripture. Parents stopped conducting family worship, learning of scripture became something not important. By the 70s, Biblical illiteracy had become the norm just before evangelical churches made a comback.

Unfortunately that comeback did not include a demand that new believers learn the Bible. In fact, much of the evangelical comeback was built on theologies that are utter nonsense and essentially require a Biblically illiterate congregation. 40 years later we're no better off despite more resources online.

As a result you're going to come across demands on Christian life that have nothing to do with scripture. You cited music and it's a good example. I find that many believers try to wedge a Biblical argument to attack those music styles they do not prefer. They don't even make a historic argument, they try to simply declare x is unbiblical with no proof text. There are dozens of other examples. Until we study scripture, study catechism and teach these things to our kids the ignorance will continue.

 

[dqhall]

I'm with you on almost all the things you mentioned except tithing. It's ultimately up to you on whether you want to be blessed as a result of giving. But you said that there's not a single verse that talks about tithing in the new testament. I'm going to post one and leave it at that.

Matthew 23:23 - "What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things."

In those days the Sanhedrin operated the courts. Tithing was enforced like tax collection. The chief priests sent agents to the grain threshing floors to make sure they got ten percent of the harvest. In America there is separation of church and state. The government does not force people to attend church or pay tithes.

The Talmud tractate Sanhedrin describes the function of the Sanhedrin before the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD.

 

[JacksBratt]

I think you can find that behavior in most religious groups. It isn’t limited to fundamentalists.

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. —Philippians 4:8

How is this OP a reflection of that? Food for thought.

~Bella

Great post... kinda sums up this thread....

 

[bèlla]

Great post... kinda sums up this thread....

Thank you for the compliment.

There are many Christians serving faithfully and doing wonderful work for the Lord. But we don’t talk about them. We don’t discuss the lives being touched and transformed by acts of love and kindness.

Its always something bad. We focus on the rotten apples and what’s awry. That isn’t edifying and it doesn’t demonstrate the Lord’s impact on your mind and heart.

Knowing how He’s made a difference strengthens others. Hearing about the small things you’ve done encourages another to do the same and God is glorified.

~Bella