If you were God, why might you place the Sabbath Commandment BETWEEN 1-3 God & 5-10 Neighbour

[Bob S]

You're argument is with God, because God Himself spoke these words: Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Also, note who God's shows mercy to- those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Why can't you see that the verse you quoted does not say the commandments are love, it says the people who love God and keep the commandments. By the way, God was referring to those Who came out of Egypt. He didn't include anyone from any other nation. All the World was not rescued from Egypt now was it? Why do you include yourself into the equation.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

The term "the moral law" is not found in the Bible.

It was invented by those who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith.

The 4th commandment was the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

.

I think the point of using the term "moral law" is to illustrate what the 10 commandments have in common with our daily lives...ie what God expects us to do.

We call these things moral laws because that is what they relate too, morality (things like thou shalt not murder). Not murdering is absolutely an issue of morality...just because Hewbrews may have instead used the word "musar" in for example Psalms50:17 (which is translated as censure), doesnt mean they did not understand the principles of morality as outlined in the 10 commandments. For anyone to say "thou shalt not murder" or "thou shalt not steal" or "thou shalt not bear false witness" are nothing to do with morality is an idiot!

Here is an example of the moral law expectations (which clearly existed long before Sinai) for you to lookup...Genesis Chapter 4.

BTW... below is the google definition of moral

ADJECTIVE

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour.

 

[BABerean2]

I think the point of using the term "moral law" is to illustrate what the 10 commandments have in common with our daily lives...ie what God expects us to do.

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ quotes the Old Covenant and then says..."But I say...".
This reveals the higher standard of conduct in the New Covenant.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Each day thousands of those who consider themselves Christians view online inappropriate contentography and believe they are not breaking the ten commandments. Based on research done in the past by Josh McDowell, some of them are preachers.
Verse 28 reveals their error.


.

 

[Bob S]

I think the point of using the term "moral law" is to illustrate what the 10 commandments have in common with our daily lives...ie what God expects us to do.

We call these things moral laws because that is what they relate too, morality (things like thou shalt not murder). Not murdering is absolutely an issue of morality...just because Hewbrews may have instead used the word "musar" in for example Psalms50:17 (which is translated as censure), doesnt mean they did not understand the principles of morality as outlined in the 10 commandments. For anyone to say "thou shalt not murder" or "thou shalt not steal" or "thou shalt not bear false witness" are nothing to do with morality is an idiot!

Here is an example of the moral law expectations (which clearly existed long before Sinai) for you to lookup...Genesis Chapter 4.

BTW... below is the google definition of moral

ADJECTIVE

1. concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour.

Hi Adam, are you aware that the Sabbath command is a ritual or ceremonial command? It doesn't have anything to do with how we treat others. What we do to the least of mankind we do to God. Those who hold that the Sabbath is the same as the other nine have no problem labeling the eight Holy Sabbaths found in the 613 laws of the Sinai covenant as being ceremonial. I read all the time that the ceremonial laws have been done away, but the ten commandments stand for ever. Laws dealing with morality do stand forever. There are many times more hurtful ways than just the nine laws. The nine were just a sample. Jesus' Royal Law of Love includes all ways we can harm others.

Where are these sins found in the Ten Commandments?

- Pride
- Shunning
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism

 

[klutedavid]

Hi Adam, are you aware that the Sabbath command is a ritual or ceremonial command? It doesn't have anything to do with how we treat others. What we do to the least of mankind we do to God. Those who hold that the Sabbath is the same as the other nine have no problem labeling the eight Holy Sabbaths found in the 613 laws of the Sinai covenant as being ceremonial. I read all the time that the ceremonial laws have been done away, but the ten commandments stand for ever. Laws dealing with morality do stand forever. There are many times more hurtful ways than just the nine laws. The nine were just a sample. Jesus' Royal Law of Love includes all ways we can harm others.

Where are these sins found in the Ten Commandments?

- Pride
- Shunning
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism

Good list of sins that are not mentioned in the ten commandments. There are many other sins not mentioned in that list also. Such as back stabbing, selfish ambition, gambling, grumbling, e.t.c.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Hi Adam, are you aware that the Sabbath command is a ritual or ceremonial command? It doesn't have anything to do with how we treat others. What we do to the least of mankind we do to God. Those who hold that the Sabbath is the same as the other nine have no problem labeling the eight Holy Sabbaths found in the 613 laws of the Sinai covenant as being ceremonial. I read all the time that the ceremonial laws have been done away, but the ten commandments stand for ever. Laws dealing with morality do stand forever. There are many times more hurtful ways than just the nine laws. The nine were just a sample. Jesus' Royal Law of Love includes all ways we can harm others.

Where are these sins found in the Ten Commandments?

- Pride
- Shunning
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism

Hi Bob, all good points and i agree with those. However, the reality is...God blessed and sanctified ONE DAY. He did not bless or sanctify any other day. That means that the Sabbath holds a very special importance to Him. The Sabbath is between Us and God. That means a lot in my opinion.
I do not think that one can put the Sabbath in terms of morality on its own...its far more meaningful than just morality.
I think that when the bible says "in as much as you did it to the least of these my bretheren" God is saying that how we treat others is absolutely important, however, one should not simply stop there and ignore that special time with God. Remember, to say "oh but i worship God every day" is no different than Cain attempting to offer God the fruits of his labour (ie his garden produce). God did not ask Cain for garden produce, he specifically asked for a lamb. The Sabbath is no different. God did not ask for every day ignoring the Sabbath...he specifically set aside the Seventh Day.
So as i said previously, my theory is, if we cannot love our neighbour as ourselves (the last 5 commandments) we cannot love God (the first 3 commandments). The joiner between the two is the Seventh Day Sabbath. The importance of the Sabbath is illustrated by what Jesus said "I am Lord of the Sabbath" ...ie Jesus IS the Sabbath!
If we love our neighbour and we keep the Sabbath, then we bridge the gap between God and man caused by sin.
This is not a works based theory BTW...it is absolutely not salvation by works. However, one cannot be saved without actually choosing to follow Jesus. That requires action on our part! If it did not require action, no one would actually need to get baptised, believe in the gospel, or any of this...Jesus would simply over ride all of that and save all of mankind irrespective of whether or not they chose to follow Him or the Devil.
Again, this is MY OWN theory on why the 4th commandment is where it is.
I would love to hear the rationalisations of why others think it is where it is that are different from mine.
We do not have to argue about who is write and wrong...i just want to see what other people think about its placement. As you said...the Sabbath doesnt appear to be a moral law! (i think it actually is based around moral issues of rest, however, that is an individual assessment of what God said when he set the day aside)

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi Adam, are you aware that the Sabbath command is a ritual or ceremonial command? It doesn't have anything to do with how we treat others. What we do to the least of mankind we do to God. Those who hold that the Sabbath is the same as the other nine have no problem labeling the eight Holy Sabbaths found in the 613 laws of the Sinai covenant as being ceremonial. I read all the time that the ceremonial laws have been done away, but the ten commandments stand for ever. Laws dealing with morality do stand forever. There are many times more hurtful ways than just the nine laws. The nine were just a sample. Jesus' Royal Law of Love includes all ways we can harm others.

Where are these sins found in the Ten Commandments?

- Pride
- Shunning
- Greed
- Envy
- Wrath, Fits of Rage
- Lust
- Gluttony
- Sloth
- Dishonesty, Deception
- Impurity, Debauchery
- Witchcraft, Sorcery
- Hatred, Indifference
- Jealousy
- Showing Favoritism, Prejudice and Discrimination
- Selfish Ambition, Self-Centeredness
- Withholding Remedy to Human or Animal Needs
- Drunkenness, Drug Abuse
- Fornication, Sodomy, inappropriate behavior with animals
- Discord, Dissensions, Factions
- Unbelief, Disbelief, Agnosticism, Atheism

Everyone of these are subsets of God's 10 commandments Bob, and no, God's 4th commandment is not a ritual neither is it ceremonial. It is one of the 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that are our duty of love to God. It is a memorial of creation *Exodus 20:10 and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth that Jesus says he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27 that gives us the knowledge of what sin (moral wrong doing) is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 when broken and righteousness (moral right doing) when obeyed *Psalms 119:172 . God's 4th commandment is one of the top four commandments that are our duty of love to God and obedience to it is how love is expressed to God as we have faith in His Word.

 

[klutedavid]

Hi Bob, all good points and i agree with those. However, the reality is...God blessed and sanctified ONE DAY. He did not bless or sanctify any other day. That means that the Sabbath holds a very special importance to Him. The Sabbath is between Us and God. That means a lot in my opinion.
I do not think that one can put the Sabbath in terms of morality on its own...its far more meaningful than just morality.
I think that when the bible says "in as much as you did it to the least of these my bretheren" God is saying that how we treat others is absolutely important, however, one should not simply stop there and ignore that special time with God. Remember, to say "oh but i worship God every day" is no different than Cain attempting to offer God the fruits of his labour (ie his garden produce). God did not ask Cain for garden produce, he specifically asked for a lamb. The Sabbath is no different. God did not ask for every day ignoring the Sabbath...he specifically set aside the Seventh Day.
So as i said previously, my theory is, if we cannot love our neighbour as ourselves (the last 5 commandments) we cannot love God (the first 3 commandments). The joiner between the two is the Seventh Day Sabbath. The importance of the Sabbath is illustrated by what Jesus said "I am Lord of the Sabbath" ...ie Jesus IS the Sabbath!
If we love our neighbour and we keep the Sabbath, then we bridge the gap between God and man caused by sin.
This is not a works based theory BTW...it is absolutely not salvation by works. However, one cannot be saved without actually choosing to follow Jesus. That requires action on our part! If it did not require action, no one would actually need to get baptised, believe in the gospel, or any of this...Jesus would simply over ride all of that and save all of mankind irrespective of whether or not they chose to follow Him or the Devil.
Again, this is MY OWN theory on why the 4th commandment is where it is.
I would love to hear the rationalisations of why others think it is where it is that are different from mine.
We do not have to argue about who is write and wrong...i just want to see what other people think about its placement. As you said...the Sabbath doesnt appear to be a moral law! (i think it actually is based around moral issues of rest, however, that is an individual assessment of what God said when he set the day aside)

The sabbath commandment saved no one.

No one was saved by following the ten commandments.

You need to concentrate on the commandment that grants salvation.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

The sabbath commandment saved no one.

No one was saved by following the ten commandments.

You need to concentrate on the commandment that grants salvation.

absolutely...the thing is what is the commandment that grants salvation
1 love the lord thy God
2. love thy neighbour as thyself

this is the catalogue of the 10 commandments...and

these two laws are joined by the Sabbath. Jesus is the Sabbath, he is Lord of the Sabbath.
This is my theory as to why it joins them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The sabbath commandment saved no one.

No one was saved by following the ten commandments.

You need to concentrate on the commandment that grants salvation.

Sin (breaking God's law) will not save anyone either David according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:21-23. No one loves God by breaking Gods commandments. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Sin (breaking God's law) will not save anyone either David according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:21-23. No one loves God by breaking Gods commandments. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

It is interesting that both Elijah and Moses are present at the transfiguration. It seems that the law and the prophets even in this event, are joined by the messiah. That is also very significant i think.
I havent yet tied this is with the Sabbath joining the two categories of commandments, but i am working on it.

 

[klutedavid]

absolutely...the thing is what is the commandment that grants salvation
1 love the lord thy God
2. love thy neighbour as thyself

this is the catalogue of the 10 commandments...and

these two laws are joined by the Sabbath. Jesus is the Sabbath, he is Lord of the Sabbath.
This is my theory as to why it joins them.

Neither one or two can save anyone.

You need the commandment that grants salvation.

 

[klutedavid]

Sin (breaking God's law) will not save anyone either David according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:21-23. No one loves God by breaking Gods commandments. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

Still have not identified the commandment that you need to obey, have you.

Not sinning has nothing to do with the first and most important commandment. The first commandment solves the problem of sin and death.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob, all good points and i agree with those. However, the reality is...God blessed and sanctified ONE DAY. He did not bless or sanctify any other day. That means that the Sabbath holds a very special importance to Him. The Sabbath is between Us and God. That means a lot in my opinion.
I do not think that one can put the Sabbath in terms of morality on its own...its far more meaningful than just morality.

Hi Adam, yes you are correct God did bless one day. Sabbath was so important that God commanded that those who profaned it were to be put to death. Scriptures tell us God gave the Israelites that special day for two reasons, one as a commemoration of creation and the other as a reminder of how God freed them from bondage in Egypt. They were to dwell on God's goodness to them. I have repeatedly corrected those on your side of the debate that use the word "US" that it was not us, it was "THEM". God chose not to reveal the Sabbath to any other nation on Earth. There is not a trace of evidence that any other nation kept the Sabbath Holy. It was special for one nation, Israel. The reality is that there is no "US" in the equation. If you can understand that then it is not hard to understand that the covenant that contained the Sabbath requirement ended at Calvary. It ended because Israel failed to honor the requirements. One of the biggest acts of dishonor was not keeping the Sabbath. Paul explains what happened at Calvary that changed the way the Jews were to honor God. Jesus made the new covenant open to all mankind. The old covenant was exclusive to Israel. Jesus did this and it is recorded in Eph 2:14-15: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

Those verses clinch the fact that the laws of the old covenant, which were never binding on Gentiles, released the Jews from all of the ritual laws of that covenant. As is already established laws dealing with morality are forever, so they are contained in the new covenant, the covenant of Love.

I think that when the bible says "in as much as you did it to the least of these my bretheren" God is saying that how we treat others is absolutely important, however, one should not simply stop there and ignore that special time with God. Remember, to say "oh but i worship God every day" is no different than Cain attempting to offer God the fruits of his labour (ie his garden produce). God did not ask Cain for garden produce, he specifically asked for a lamb. The Sabbath is no different. God did not ask for every day ignoring the Sabbath...he specifically set aside the Seventh Day.

Again, I agree, He set aside a day for Israel, His chosen.

So as i said previously, my theory is, if we cannot love our neighbour as ourselves (the last 5 commandments) we cannot love God (the first 3 commandments). The joiner between the two is the Seventh Day Sabbath. The importance of the Sabbath is illustrated by what Jesus said "I am Lord of the Sabbath" ...ie Jesus IS the Sabbath!

Once again, not "US". I have no problem with your theory except that it would include only the nation of Israel before Calvary

If we love our neighbour and we keep the Sabbath, then we bridge the gap between God and man caused by sin.

Jesus asks us, in the new command He gave us, to love others as He loves us. The He adds Jn 15: 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. Yes, we too have a bridge. That bridge was manifested at Pentecost when God poured out His Spirit on man. Our bridge is the Holy Spirit living in us. Paul, again, leaves nothing to our imagination. 2Cor3:6-11 tells us that the ten commandments "were" glorious. Those commands have no glory compared to the glory of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor3: 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

This is not a works based theory BTW...it is absolutely not salvation by works. However, one cannot be saved without actually choosing to follow Jesus. That requires action on our part! If it did not require action, no one would actually need to get baptised, believe in the gospel, or any of this...Jesus would simply over ride all of that and save all of mankind irrespective of whether or not they chose to follow Him or the Devil.

You may sincerely believe keeping Sabbath is not works based. Most SDAs don't know what the church really teaches. Out of sight, out of mind. The following quotation from the SDA revered prophet proves to differ from what you believe. "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}" That statement and more like it smacks salvation by works. If I don't keep the Sabbath, given only to Israel, I am doomed to hell. By the same token (if that were true) if you don't keep the Sabbath as prescribed in the Old Covenant you too are just as doomed.

Again, this is MY OWN theory on why the 4th commandment is where it is.
I would love to hear the rationalisations of why others think it is where it is that are different from mine.
We do not have to argue about who is write and wrong...i just want to see what other people think about its placement. As you said...the Sabbath doesnt appear to be a moral law! (i think it actually is based around moral issues of rest, however, that is an individual assessment of what God said when he set the day aside)

Well, by now you should know my opinion and it all comes from God's Holy Writ.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Hi Adam, yes you are correct God did bless one day. Sabbath was so important that God commanded that those who profaned it were to be put to death. Scriptures tell us God gave the Israelites that special day for two reasons, one as a commemoration of creation and the other as a reminder of how God freed them from bondage in Egypt. They were to dwell on God's goodness to them. I have repeatedly corrected those on your side of the debate that use the word "US" that it was not us, it was "THEM". God chose not to reveal the Sabbath to any other nation on Earth. There is not a trace of evidence that any other nation kept the Sabbath Holy. It was special for one nation, Israel. The reality is that there is no "US" in the equation. If you can understand that then it is not hard to understand that the covenant that contained the Sabbath requirement ended at Calvary. It ended because Israel failed to honor the requirements. One of the biggest acts of dishonor was not keeping the Sabbath. Paul explains what happened at Calvary that changed the way the Jews were to honor God. Jesus made the new covenant open to all mankind. The old covenant was exclusive to Israel. Jesus did this and it is recorded in Eph 2:14-15: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

Those verses clinch the fact that the laws of the old covenant, which were never binding on Gentiles, released the Jews from all of the ritual laws of that covenant. As is already established laws dealing with morality are forever, so they are contained in the new covenant, the covenant of Love.


Again, I agree, He set aside a day for Israel, His chosen.


Once again, not "US". I have no problem with your theory except that it would include only the nation of Israel before Calvary


Jesus asks us, in the new command He gave us, to love others as He loves us. The He adds Jn 15: 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. Yes, we too have a bridge. That bridge was manifested at Pentecost when God poured out His Spirit on man. Our bridge is the Holy Spirit living in us. Paul, again, leaves nothing to our imagination. 2Cor3:6-11 tells us that the ten commandments "were" glorious. Those commands have no glory compared to the glory of the Holy Spirit. 2Cor3: 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


You may sincerely believe keeping Sabbath is not works based. Most SDAs don't know what the church really teaches. Out of sight, out of mind. The following quotation from the SDA revered prophet proves to differ from what you believe. "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}" That statement and more like it smacks salvation by works. If I don't keep the Sabbath, given only to Israel, I am doomed to hell. By the same token (if that were true) if you don't keep the Sabbath as prescribed in the Old Covenant you too are just as doomed.




Well, by now you should know my opinion and it all comes from God's Holy Writ.

Bob the old and new covenant are the writing of the laws in the minds and on the hearts of ALL mankind.
It has nothing to do with doing away with commandments.
What was given to the gentiles was the charge to take the gospel to the world.
You are confusing both things. The covenant line is a dead horse...time to mov.
The fact is, if one doesn't keep the Sabbath and they know they should, then yes, one is doomed to hell just the same as breaking any other commandment.
Our salvation is only possible by not denying our conscience. In denying the still small voice we are denying the holy spirit, we are denying God. By ignoring the joining link between man and God (the Sabbath), I think yes you are going to be punished!
Jesus didn't come to live according to the law so he could rub his abilities to resist temptation in our faces. However, the wages of sin will always be death. Without knowing what sin is is having no standard, there is no sin. That is why Rev 14:12 says the saints are those who keep the commandments of God AND testimony of Jesus...again there is that link again.

Even Google says the commandments of God are the 10 commandments. It's algorithm returns results based on the most widely associated meaning.

Without the Sabbath(Jesus is Lord of it, he is the Sabbath), no you cannot be saved! It is a Holy day for a reason. We are not worshipping the day, we are remembering we are created and worshipping our creator. The clincher is, he specifically said, on THIS day you will have that special weekly communion with me. This is different from the daily walks Adam and Eve and Enoch had with Him...so saying I worship every day is rubbish. If you worship every day as a Sabbath, then no work can be done on those days as per the commandment "on it you shall do no work".

 

[Bob S]

Bob the old and new covenant are the writing of the laws in the minds and on the hearts of ALL mankind.
It has nothing to do with doing away with commandments.

Oh! then why did Paul write that the laws was until Jesus? Gal 3 Why did he write that Jesus set aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. Eph 2 Why did he write the ten commandments were done away. 2Cor 3: 6-11 KJV. I could go on and on disputing with scripture what you have been taught by the SDAs. There were 613 commands in the old covenant law. Which ones are written on our hearts according to you?

What was given to the gentiles was the charge to take the gospel to the world.

No, what was given to Gentiles was the plan of salvation. Jesus came to the Jews to give them a second chance and included Gentiles. It is called the new covenant. I see no specific command by Jesus for Gentiles to take the Gospel to all the World. Please give me some scripture to prove me wrong.

You are confusing both things. The covenant line is a dead horse...time to mov.

I certainly am not confused, but the SDA church has done a great job confusing you.

The fact is, if one doesn't keep the Sabbath and they know they should, then yes, one is doomed to hell just the same as breaking any other commandment.

The fact really is that if one really believes salvation hinges on ones feeble attempt to do all the old covenant Sabbath requires then one is depending on salvation by WORKS of the old covenant law.

Our salvation is only possible by not denying our conscience. In denying the still small voice we are denying the holy spirit, we are denying God. By ignoring the joining link between man and God (the Sabbath), I think yes you are going to be punished!

Why do you stop with only one Sabbath requirement of the old covenant? There were eight other Sabbaths that you ignore plus new moons. Your belief system is so wanting.

Jesus didn't come to live according to the law so he could rub his abilities to resist temptation in our faces. However, the wages of sin will always be death. Without knowing what sin is is having no standard, there is no sin. That is why Rev 14:12 says the saints are those who keep the commandments of God AND testimony of Jesus...again there is that link again. Even Google says the commandments of God are the 10 commandments. It's algorithm returns results based on the most widely associated meaning.

Notice it does not say "10" commandments. In all of the New Testament 10 commandments are not mentioned. You are adding to scripture your own interpretation of all of the verses that say "commandments".

Without the Sabbath(Jesus is Lord of it, he is the Sabbath), no you cannot be saved! It is a Holy day for a reason. We are not worshipping the day, we are remembering we are created and worshipping our creator. The clincher is, he specifically said, on THIS day you will have that special weekly communion with me. This is different from the daily walks Adam and Eve and Enoch had with Him...so saying I worship every day is rubbish. If you worship every day as a Sabbath, then no work can be done on those days as per the commandment "on it you shall do no work".

Wow! Adventism has done a great job on you. If you cannot see anything in what I have explained to you just allow this one thought to permeate, The commandment of keeping Sabbath was given to only one nation on this Earth, Israel. God has never ever asked any other nation or people to observe it. Abraham was not saved by keeping the Sabbath, He was saved by God's grace just as all of the children of God. You are denying all that Paul wrote about how we are saved just as did Ellen White. Even if all of the Israelites kept the laws God gave them, they would be saved the same way as was Abraham. Abraham was faithful, he believed God. Was Abraham perfect, not by a long shot. He was a believer and because of God's Grace he is SAVED. AMEN!!!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh! then why did Paul write that the laws was until Jesus? Gal 3 Why did he write that Jesus set aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. Eph 2 Why did he write the ten commandments were done away. 2Cor 3: 6-11 KJV. I could go on and on disputing with scripture what you have been taught by the SDAs. There were 613 commands in the old covenant law. Which ones are written on our hearts according to you?

No, what was given to Gentiles was the plan of salvation. Jesus came to the Jews to give them a second chance and included Gentiles. It is called the new covenant. I see no specific command by Jesus for Gentiles to take the Gospel to all the World. Please give me some scripture to prove me wrong.

I certainly am not confused, but the SDA church has done a great job confusing you.


The fact really is that if one really believes salvation hinges on ones feeble attempt to do all the old covenant Sabbath requires then one is depending on salvation by WORKS of the old covenant law.


Why do you stop with only one Sabbath requirement of the old covenant? There were eight other Sabbaths that you ignore plus new moons. Your belief system is so wanting.


Notice it does not say "10" commandments. In all of the New Testament 10 commandments are not mentioned. You are adding to scripture your own interpretation of all of the verses that say "commandments".



Wow! Adventism has done a great job on you. If you cannot see anything in what I have explained to you just allow this one thought to permeate, The commandment of keeping Sabbath was given to only one nation on this Earth, Israel. God has never ever asked any other nation or people to observe it. Abraham was not saved by keeping the Sabbath, He was saved by God's grace just as all of the children of God. You are denying all that Paul wrote about how we are saved just as did Ellen White. Even if all of the Israelites kept the laws God gave them, they would be saved the same way as was Abraham. Abraham was faithful, he believed God. Was Abraham perfect, not by a long shot. He was a believer and because of God's Grace he is SAVED. AMEN!!!

God is not the author of confusion. Does God say its okay to murder for everyone except Jews? Or lie, or steal? If you are of Christ than you are part of God's Israel. God said keeping Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. Ezekiel 20:12. Ezekiel 20:20 Are only Jews His people?

God set the precedence for His commandments to be called My commandments in the Ten Commandments- does God have to repeat Himself for you to listen and obey?

This verse is found inside God's Ten commandments
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Also note who God shows mercy to. Is it to those who obey or disobey?

The same sentiment is found throughout the bible.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Revelations 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

In contrast to those outside of God's Kingdom who break His commandments

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
A reference to God's Ten commandments.


Jesus directly quoted from God's Ten, do you think what Jesus tells us is important?

Mathew 19: 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Another direct reference to God's Ten commandments.

I would be careful what you are teaching others here. I noticed you didn't provide scripture to back up your claims. Jesus said:

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I know that's not what you want, so you might want to consider re-thinking the message you are advocating that its okay to break God's laws when God asked us to keep them as an expression of our love for Him.

 

[klutedavid]

God is not the author of confusion. Does God say its okay to murder for everyone except Jews? Or lie, or steal?

Why do you cite the letter of the law such as do not murder.

Exodus 20:13
You shall not murder.

When you know that the letter of the law involves much, much more, than the mere literal reading.

For example, "do not murder", was greatly expanded by Jesus as seen below.

Matthew 5:21-22
“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice that Jesus says, "But I say to you", meaning Jesus is identifying more than the physical act of murder, as sinful. But the very thoughts and intentions of the sinful mind. Jesus is establishing a newer set of commandments, an upgrade.

Please quote the newer version of the law every time in future. Otherwise, you could very well be misleading people into thinking that the literal law (Exodus 20) still applies.

The same goes for adultery and idolatry, the Sabbath and coveting, e.t.c.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why do you cite the letter of the law such as do not murder.

Exodus 20:13
You shall not murder.

When you know that the letter of the law involves much, much more, than the mere literal reading.

For example, "do not murder", was greatly expanded by Jesus as seen below.

Matthew 5:21-22
“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice that Jesus says, "But I say to you", meaning Jesus is identifying more than the physical act of murder, as sinful. But the very thoughts and intentions of the sinful mind. Jesus is establishing a newer set of commandments, an upgrade.

Please quote the newer version of the law every time in future. Otherwise, you could very well be misleading people into thinking that the literal law (Exodus 20) still applies.

The same goes for adultery and idolatry, the Sabbath and coveting, e.t.c.

Interesting, now you are quoting from God’s Ten Commandments so I am glad we are making some progress. God literally does not want us to not murder, which is why He said You shall not murder. Jesus expanded on it when He said murder begins in the heart. All of God’s commandments are literal and spiritual. If it wasn’t for the literal meaning, you would not be able to keep it in spirit.

You might want to rethink if keeping the literal commandments found in Exodus 20 is required. Common sense alone should tell you the answer but what does the Bible say?

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Hope this helps.

 

[klutedavid]

Interesting, now you are quoting from God’s Ten Commandments so I am glad we are making some progress. God literally does not want us to not murder, which is why He said You shall not murder. Jesus expanded on it when He said murder begins in the heart. All of God’s commandments are literal and spiritual. If it wasn’t for the literal meaning, you would not be able to keep it in spirit.

You might want to rethink if keeping the literal commandments found in Exodus 20 is required. Common sense alone should tell you the answer but what does the Bible say?

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Hope this helps.

Are you saying that the law still applies?

Common sense is of no value here.

Matthew 5:31-32
“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Where is that commandment in the law.

Stop misleading people with Exodus 20.

What happens if you get a divorce and transgress the commandment that Jesus gave?