If you read the Bible and believe what it says is true, then...?

[hedrick]

How can you say that baptism is not 'magic'? What do you mean by 'magic' and how do you differentiate 'magic' from 'supernatural occurrences' and 'miracles'?

My comment may not have been clear enough for you. There are arguments among Christians going on behind the scenes that that might not be obvious to an outsider. Protestants are concerned with the Catholic concept that baptism makes an actual spiritual difference, because it sounds like magic. What I mean by that is that it sounds like the act of baptism changes something independent of the faith of the person being baptized or anything else.

However Paul does seem to say that baptism does actually do something. I was trying to explain what that means. Baptism isn't a miracle in the usual sense. Though I guess anything involving God or his presence is in some sense supernatural.

 

[renewed21]

Water baptism is not a condition of salvation.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think the Baptist/Evangelical/many others' meaning of baptism is the creepiest. It's like they have completely changed into a different species, not recognizable anymore except by their looks. When they say "it's a change from the inside out, not just a makeover", they really mean it. It's like some supernatural force has taken over their life and told them to change their minds. Very creepy. It reminds me of Frankenstein. The birth of a new monster or "person".

The traditional view of baptism seems to be less creepy, as you don't try to explain that some strange supernatural force has taken control of you and completely change your behavior.

It only seems creepy because some fundamentalists evangelical Christian groups are ardently anti-intellectual. They can be stultifying to the growth of the faith. Where I'm from, we just call them "red-necks."

Baptism in a healthy church environment, whether evangelical, Catholic, Orthodox, or whatever, probably won't feel very creepy. I was baptised with total immersion in a Baptist church, and my wife was similarly baptized in an Orthodox church. Neither of us thought it was creepy.

 

[renewed21]

I think the Baptist/Evangelical/many others' meaning of baptism is the creepiest. It's like they have completely changed into a different species, not recognizable anymore except by their looks. When they say "it's a change from the inside out, not just a makeover", they really mean it. It's like some supernatural force has taken over their life and told them to change their minds. Very creepy. It reminds me of Frankenstein. The birth of a new monster or "person".

The traditional view of baptism seems to be less creepy, as you don't try to explain that some strange supernatural force has taken control of you and completely change your behavior.

Becoming a "creep" is when the blinders finally came off. I am a totally new creature, a newly born person. It is the most beautiful transformation one could ever experience. Lord, thank you for your "creepiness".

 

[chilehed]

If you read the Bible and believe what it says is true to you or to reality, then does that mean you can go to heaven in the afterlife, even if you had not been baptized? What happens if someone murdered you before your baptism (for whatever reason or negligent manslaughter), so you never actually become baptized? You may believe in God and that the Bible is true and you have repented of your former sins, but you are just not baptized with water.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 2, Chapter 1:

VI. The Necessity of Baptism

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.​

 

[salida]

Water baptism-its symbolism but it shows a good conscience towards God.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. No, this isn't a requirement. This shows people your serious about your faith-Christ got baptized.

Ask for the holy spirit by prayer. He will give you the power to live a christian life. Human effort alone can't do this. Pray and you will get it. This will give you the inner strength to live the christian life. Acts 2:38

Im an evangelical and I don't have a creepy view. In fact, I never heard of that.

 

[Sketcher]

If you read the Bible and believe what it says is true to you or to reality, then does that mean you can go to heaven in the afterlife, even if you had not been baptized? What happens if someone murdered you before your baptism (for whatever reason or negligent manslaughter), so you never actually become baptized? You may believe in God and that the Bible is true and you have repented of your former sins, but you are just not baptized with water.

If someone converts on Wednesday and gets scheduled to be baptized on Sunday, I have no reason to believe that he will go to hell if he gets shot on Friday.