Is Praying on Someone's Downfall Wrong?

[Hestha]

Let's say you are jealous of a person's status or wealth. So, you decide to pray for the downfall of that person in order to make you feel better, and the person's downfall comes true, and then all of a sudden, you regret your evil prayer, because somehow some force is seemingly causing that person to experience bad luck and that person can't seem to get rid of it. You think it is a "curse". Then, you regret that you have laid a curse on that person and apologize. Now, this person is not so superstitious and will probably think that you have lost your mind, or may entertain your line of thought by suggesting that you are probably practicing witchcraft. If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? For example, that someone may say, "Your god is nothing! He doesn't even exist! Quit believing in him! You think your prayers are any useful? Well, I'll tell you that they are useless! Absolutely useless!" Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Let's say you are jealous of a person's status or wealth. So, you decide to pray for the downfall of that person in order to make you feel better, and the person's downfall comes true, and then all of a sudden, you regret your evil prayer, because somehow some force is seemingly causing that person to experience bad luck and that person can't seem to get rid of it. You think it is a "curse". Then, you regret that you have laid a curse on that person and apologize. Now, this person is not so superstitious and will probably think that you have lost your mind, or may entertain your line of thought by suggesting that you are probably practicing witchcraft. If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? For example, that someone may say, "Your god is nothing! He doesn't even exist! Quit believing in him! You think your prayers are any useful? Well, I'll tell you that they are useless! Absolutely useless!" Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?

If I'm praying that something bad happens to another person, then I'm doing it wrong.

I can't affect the world around me by my will, i.e. magick. If I did wish ill upon someone and something bad did happen to them, I'd certainly feel bad, though I wouldn't assume causation, my feeling bad would be over my own misplaced feelings--I should know and do better than to wish something bad on another human being.

Prayer isn't about trying to force my will upon the world; but about submitting myself to God, in order that I might exist for Him in the world. Thus bad prayer--selfish, malicious, etc "prayers"--isn't prayer at all, and is just sinful wishing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hestha]

Prayer isn't about trying to force my will upon the world

-CryptoLutheran

How is prayer not about trying to force your will upon the world? What about intercessory prayers that are tested in the laboratory for their efficacy? Aren't they trying to "change" something in the world?

 

[ViaCrucis]

How is prayer not about trying to force your will upon the world? What about intercessory prayers that are tested in the laboratory for their efficacy? Aren't they trying to "change" something in the world?

Praying for others, intercessory prayer, still isn't about trying to affect one's will on the world; or at least it's not supposed to be. That would make prayer magick, something Christians are forbidden from engaging in. When I come before God on behalf of another, I am taking my cares, concerns, worries, and my love for another before God, bringing these things as an offering to God, saying, "Thy will be done."

While this specifically addresses the Jewish POV, I find it helpful in portraying the Biblical concept of prayer:

"The Hebrew word for prayer is tefilah. It is derived from the root Pe-Lamed-Lamed and the word l'hitpalel, meaning to judge oneself. This surprising word origin provides insight into the purpose of Jewish prayer. The most important part of any Jewish prayer, whether it be a prayer of petition, of thanksgiving, of praise of G-d, or of confession, is the introspection it provides, the moment that we spend looking inside ourselves, seeing our role in the universe and our relationship to G-d." - Judaism 101

Prayer is several times described/shown as an offering of incense to God, perhaps the most vibrant example comes in the text of the Revelation:

"When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel." - Revelation 8:1-4

This is the basis for the use of incense in some churches.

Indeed, when Jesus offers us the model prayer in the Our Father, the prayer is explicitly, "Thy will be done". Even in the Garden of Gethsemane, when Christ pleaded before the Father in the agony of the eve of His death, He prays, "Not My will, but Thy will be done."

Prayer compels us to look into ourselves, ultimately beyond ourselves, and brings us outward to be agents of God's work in the world for others. Cultivating a lifestyle of prayer means humbling the heart before God, that we can be able to say, "Blessed be the name of the Lord." In the good and the bad, in joy and in sadness, "Blessed be the name of the Lord." An offering of ourselves, our lives, our hopes, our joys, our sufferings, our sorrows, our hardships, our trials, our loved ones, all things to God, to say, "This is Yours, my God, do with it as You will, come what may."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hestha]

Praying for others, intercessory prayer, still isn't about trying to affect one's will on the world; or at least it's not supposed to be. That would make prayer magick, something Christians are forbidden from engaging in. When I come before God on behalf of another, I am taking my cares, concerns, worries, and my love for another before God, bringing these things as an offering to God, saying, "Thy will be done."

While this specifically addresses the Jewish POV, I find it helpful in portraying the Biblical concept of prayer:

"The Hebrew word for prayer is tefilah. It is derived from the root Pe-Lamed-Lamed and the word l'hitpalel, meaning to judge oneself. This surprising word origin provides insight into the purpose of Jewish prayer. The most important part of any Jewish prayer, whether it be a prayer of petition, of thanksgiving, of praise of G-d, or of confession, is the introspection it provides, the moment that we spend looking inside ourselves, seeing our role in the universe and our relationship to G-d." - Judaism 101

Prayer is several times described/shown as an offering of incense to God, perhaps the most vibrant example comes in the text of the Revelation:

"When the Lamb opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets given to them. And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel." - Revelation 8:1-4

This is the basis for the use of incense in some churches.

Indeed, when Jesus offers us the model prayer in the Our Father, the prayer is explicitly, "Thy will be done". Even in the Garden of Gethsemane, when Christ pleaded before the Father in the agony of the eve of His death, He prays, "Not My will, but Thy will be done."

Prayer compels us to look into ourselves, ultimately beyond ourselves, and brings us outward to be agents of God's work in the world for others. Cultivating a lifestyle of prayer means humbling the heart before God, that we can be able to say, "Blessed be the name of the Lord." In the good and the bad, in joy and in sadness, "Blessed be the name of the Lord." An offering of ourselves, our lives, our hopes, our joys, our sufferings, our sorrows, our hardships, our trials, our loved ones, all things to God, to say, "This is Yours, my God, do with it as You will, come what may."

-CryptoLutheran

OK. Do Christians take blessings and curses seriously then? During biblical times, blessings and curses were taken seriously. When the patriarch Isaac blessed Jacob and not Esau, he could not revert the accidental blessing, because he had already said the blessing to Jacob, who took away's Esau's blessing and birthright. I bet Esau treated the circumstance like a curse! Or did he treat it more like a consequence for what he did - making the wrong decision in life and going against God's plan for him, which was to become the patriarch?

 

[motherprayer]

Let's say you are jealous of a person's status or wealth. So, you decide to pray for the downfall of that person in order to make you feel better, and the person's downfall comes true, and then all of a sudden, you regret your evil prayer, because somehow some force is seemingly causing that person to experience bad luck and that person can't seem to get rid of it. You think it is a "curse". Then, you regret that you have laid a curse on that person and apologize. Now, this person is not so superstitious and will probably think that you have lost your mind, or may entertain your line of thought by suggesting that you are probably practicing witchcraft. If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? For example, that someone may say, "Your god is nothing! He doesn't even exist! Quit believing in him! You think your prayers are any useful? Well, I'll tell you that they are useless! Absolutely useless!" Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?

If you pray for someone's downfall, and it occurs, the one who answered is Satan, not God.
Christians are called to pray for our enemies, to bless those that curse us.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Let's say you are jealous of a person's status or wealth. So, you decide to pray for the downfall of that person in order to make you feel better, and the person's downfall comes true, and then all of a sudden, you regret your evil prayer, because somehow some force is seemingly causing that person to experience bad luck and that person can't seem to get rid of it. You think it is a "curse". Then, you regret that you have laid a curse on that person and apologize. Now, this person is not so superstitious and will probably think that you have lost your mind, or may entertain your line of thought by suggesting that you are probably practicing witchcraft. If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? For example, that someone may say, "Your god is nothing! He doesn't even exist! Quit believing in him! You think your prayers are any useful? Well, I'll tell you that they are useless! Absolutely useless!" Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?

Hestha,

I answer NO to all of the above questions. If I answered YES, then I wouldn't really be living according to the New Testament standards as taught by the Lord Jesus and His early disciples.

No one can be a Christian and curse others, or pray for evil to befall them (although we might pray that God would intercede to help us bring an end to the power mongering of someone like Hitler!)

Have you had a chance to read the New Testament, the primary source documents?

 

[Hestha]

Hestha,

I answer NO to all of the above questions. If I answered YES, then I wouldn't really be living according to the New Testament standards as taught by the Lord Jesus and His early disciples.

No one can be a Christian and curse others, or pray for evil to befall them (although we might pray that God would intercede to help us bring an end to the power mongering of someone like Hitler!)

Have you had a chance to read the New Testament, the primary source documents?

Yes, but only parts of it in English.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, but only parts of it in English.

Well...that's a start. Truthfully, I don't think anyone as highly intelligent and philosophical as you seem to be would have any trouble in finishing the New Testament. Reading through it might answer a plethora of academic questions. Nevertheless, I think it is always good to question everything, assuming that we discern when we have received a good answer.

2PhiloVoid

 

[christianoleamondragon]

Let's say you are jealous of a person's status or wealth. So, you decide to pray for the downfall of that person in order to make you feel better, and the person's downfall comes true, and then all of a sudden, you regret your evil prayer, because somehow some force is seemingly causing that person to experience bad luck and that person can't seem to get rid of it. You think it is a "curse". Then, you regret that you have laid a curse on that person and apologize. Now, this person is not so superstitious and will probably think that you have lost your mind, or may entertain your line of thought by suggesting that you are probably practicing witchcraft. If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? For example, that someone may say, "Your god is nothing! He doesn't even exist! Quit believing in him! You think your prayers are any useful? Well, I'll tell you that they are useless! Absolutely useless!" Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?

Yes, there are evil magic or the so called, WITCHCRAFT..

Gal 5:19-21

19 The acts of the flesh(sinful or evil nature) are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So the conclusion here is, if you do that, then, you don't have the Spirit of GOD.

Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control.

Christians do not believe in superstitions because God is in control whatever it takes.. Yes you can repent for it. But, do not do it again..

Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

God said bless them.

 

[talitha]

...If you believe that you are engaging in curses and witchcraft, then can you repent your evil magic?
Yes.

Do Christians believe in evil magic? How about superstitions?
Of course these things exist. Should we engage in them? Absolutely not. BTW, I think the word "evil" added to the word "magic" is redundant.

Would you pray badly for someone, if someone maliciously hurts you and blasphemes against your god out of mockery and resentment? .... Would you pray for that someone to suffer punishment in hell or something like that?
NOOOOOoooooo!! I would pray for that someone to come to the realization that what he or she is saying is pretty much the opposite of the truth! I would pray for that person to receive revelation of the truth of Jesus!