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if you observe Sabbath, Christ will profit you nothing.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by MoreCoffee, Jan 9, 2013.

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  1. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    I think you were confused because the Original post does not "judge" anybody. The OP observes that what saint Paul says regarding circumcision applies equally well to the 7th day Sabbath; one could paraphrase it thus
    Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you observe the seventh day Sabbath, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who observes the seventh day Sabbath that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
     
  2. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    QFT!

    God be gracious to me a sinner.
     
  3. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    Oh but lookie here!^_^

    Hebrews 4:4-9

    King James Version (KJV)

    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    The Lord shall keep His Sabbath Holy, for no unclean thing shall enter into it.:thumbsup:
     
  4. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    Oh but it doesn't, in Biblical Theology

    Know we so little of the sanctuary and it's purpose?
     
  5. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    I would agree that the Lord always keeps His sabbath Holy, for it would be a sin to do otherwise. Of course we understand here in Hebrews that the author is using the sabbath as a metaphor for the "rest" we shall receive when sin is done away with and the righteous are redeemed from this earth.
     
  6. Lion King

    Lion King Veni, vidi, vici

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    Why do you butcher the Scriptures so much? Ananias kept the Law of Moses and was regarded as a disciple of Christ:

    A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. Acts 22:12

    _______

    In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered. Acts 9:10



    Choosing to keep the Sabbath does not make anyone fall from grace. One can only fall from grace if they let go of Christ...
     
  7. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    That's the point, the natural law was just a (tutor) and shadow of the greater true image yet to come in the spiritual, as is also revelaed by (the Master) Christ.

    Some still only see the shadow of the law (and worship it) while others worship in the Spirit, and look forward to the true.:thumbsup:
     
  8. Habakk

    Habakk Prayer Team †

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    The scripture in Hebrews is talking about a Sabbath rest to God’s people it is not advocating that we observe the seventh day. It’s a spiritual rest not a physical rest. Genesis foreshadowed that spiritual rest because God made the Sabbath for man not man for the Sabbath.
     
  9. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

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    lets see some context:

    Col 2:16-3:3 (YLT)
    Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ; let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and in worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, and not holding the head, from which all the body--through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together--may increase with the increase of God. If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? --thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle-- which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body--not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh. If, then, ye were raised with the Christ, the things above seek ye, where the Christ is, on the right hand of God seated, the things above mind ye, not the things upon the earth, for ye did die, and your life hath been hid with the Christ in God;

    Gal 3:19 (SLT)
    What then the law? It was added on account of transgressions, (till the seed come to whom it was promised) appointed by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    yeah is the seed of faith grown up or are you still in slavery and subject to bondage of Sinai?
     
  10. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    While I obviously hold a different view, I don't think I've reached the point where I'm ready to discuss it for the Billionth and 1 time on this forum ;). Get's my blood pressure up.
     
  11. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    I never said it was advocating keeping the sabbath. I said the author used the sabbath in that text as a metaphor pointing forward to something that is yet to come. It would be best to understand what is being said in that text, and to not impose on it a teaching that the author wasn't trying to convey.
     
  12. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Law or grace. That's the choice in one's justification, in whatever manifestation that "law" takes.

    Some observe the weekly sabbath, some observe their necessity to partake only at their group by their priest by their type of bread (their "circumcision" as it were). In either case, it is to "be justified by law", to fall from grace.

    Or did I miss something?
     
  13. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    The title of your thread did seem a bit judgemental to me.

    "If you observe Sabbath, Christ will profit you nothing.":scratch:

    But maybe I observe things differently.
     
  14. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Once again I ask, who here is claiming Sabbath observance JUSTIFIES a person?
     
  15. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    I would like to address the honest part at least concerning the SDA. Are they saying thier church is not Christian by not identifying themselves as SDA especially while clearly promoting its teachings? If the statement is I am identifying as a Christian, would not identifying as SDA be doing both here. Are they not violating both the rules here and the 10 Cs the claim to uphold? Does this not blaspheme God's name? This practice is widely used in their outreach. It is deceptive. It is fraud. It is lying. It is bearing false witness. It out right violates the 10 Cs.

    These comments are for the purpose of discussing honesty only and not for the purpose of attacking the SDA church. I do see how they can be taken as such. My sincerest apologies to those taking offense.

    This is an ethics issue, not just a law issue. It is a problem for the SDA.

    bugkiller
     
  16. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

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    and so you keep them because of why?

    John 4:20-24 (YLT)
    our fathers in this mountain did worship, and ye--ye say that in Jerusalem is the place where it behoveth to worship.' Jesus saith to her, `Woman, believe me, that there doth come an hour, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father; ye worship what ye have not known; we worship what we have known, because the salvation is of the Jews; but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him; God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'


    how is it worshiping God in spirit and truth to observe the shadows of truth?

    Barnabas 2:4 - 3:6
    For He hath made manifest to us by all the prophets that He wanteth
    neither sacrifices nor whole burnt offerings nor oblations, saying at
    one time;
    What to Me is the multitude of your sacrifices, saith the Lord I am
    full of whole burnt-offerings, and the fat of lambs and the blood
    of bulls and of goats desire not, not though ye should come to be
    seen of Me. or who required these things at your hands? Ye shall
    continue no more to tread My court. If ye bring fine flour, it is
    in vain; incense is an abomination to Me; your new moons and your
    Sabbaths I cannot away with.
    These things therefore He annulled, that the new law of our Lord
    Jesus Christ, being free from the yoke of constraint, might have its
    oblation not made by human hands.
    And He saith again unto them; Did command your fathers when they
    went forth from the land of Egypt to bring Me whole burnt offerings
    and sacrifices?
    Nay, this was My command unto them, Let none of you bear a grudge
    of evil against his neighbor in his heart, and love you not a false
    oath.
    So we ought to perceive, unless we are without understanding, the
    mind of the goodness of our Father; for He speaketh to us, desiring
    us not to go astray like them but to seek how we may approach Him.
    Thus then speaketh He to us; The sacrifice unto God is a broken
    heart, the smell of a sweet savor unto the Lord is a heart that
    glorifies its Maker. We ought therefore, brethren, to learn
    accurately concerning our salvation, lest the Evil One having
    effected an entrance of error in us should fling us away from our
    life.
    He speaketh again therefore to them concerning these things;
    Wherefore fast ye for Me, saith the Lord, so that your voice is
    heard this day crying aloud? This is not the fast which have chosen,
    saith the Lord; not a man abasing his soul;
    not though ye should bend your neck as a hoop, and put on sackcloth
    and make your bed of ashes, not even so shall ye call a fast that is
    acceptable.
    But unto us He saith; Behold, this is the fast which I have chosen,
    saith the Lord; loosen every band of wickedness, untie the
    tightened cords of forcible contracts, send away the broken ones
    released and tear in pieces every unjust bond. Break thy bread to
    the hungry, and if thou seest one naked clothe him; bring the
    shelterless into thy house, and if thou seest a humble man, thou
    shalt not despise him, neither shall any one of thy household and
    of thine own seed.
    Then shall thy light break forth in the morning, and thy healing
    shall arise quickly, and righteousness shall go forth before thy
    face, and the glory of God shall environ thee.
    Then shalt thou cry out and God shall hear thee; while thou art
    still speaking, He shall say 'Lo, I am here'; if thou shalt take
    away from thee the yoke and the stretching forth of the finger and
    the word of murmuring, and shalt give thy bread to the hungry
    heartily, and shalt pity the abased soul.
    To this end therefore, my brethren, He that is long-suffering,
    foreseeing that the people whom He had prepared in His well-beloved
    would believe in simplicity, manifested to us beforehand concerning
    all things, that we might not as novices shipwreck ourselves upon
    their law.
     
  17. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Who is forbidding others to keep the sabbath? What I witness here is exactly the opposite in the sabbath being demanded.

    bugkiller
     
  18. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    And who is this speaking to? What about Eze 20:12 where God says very directly He gave it to them (Isreal)? How can it be the whole world or even Christians. Isreali have never been called Christians as a group.

    bugkiller
     
  19. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    IMHO yes! The OP said nor suggested keeping the sabbath would or could alienate one from God.

    bugkiller
     
  20. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    law can when used to justify or sanctify, fallen from christ, when?

    5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

    why were they running well, until they got under law?


    5;7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?

    Did this teaching come from jesus, that lets leaven in? leaven, bro mull these passages over please, thanks, frog.


    5;8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump
     
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