If you missed it: More than 50% of Americans now live in states where SSM is legal.

[PreachersWife2004]

The prostitute can pick or choose, just like the drug dealer can. Their business is not recognized as legitimate and servicing the public at large, because it is illegal.

Okay, it's legal in Las Vegas. Can a prostitute in LV refuse to have sex with someone because that person is gay?

Since NM does not have SSM it is hard to claim the photographer was forced to attend a wedding.

The said I do find this case troubling. No person should be compelled to attend and document an event that goes against their principles. Unlike the case of the baker I think in this case the law is in error but I do not know how you would craft anti-discrimination legislation that would get around this issue.

or how about the t-shirt maker that didn't want to make t-shirts and now has to go to sensitivity training? REALLY?

Maybe quit crafting anti-discrimination laws. You don't change minds that way. If anything, the government telling us how we should feel about certain people just because they're a certain color or a certain orientation ought to scare the living daylights out of people. What happens when the government doesn't swing YOUR way?

 

[Aldebaran]

If obeying the lord in your mind, causes you to break the law, maybe you need to think about some things.

I wouldn't be the first:

Daniel 6:
4At this, the administrators and the satraps tried to find grounds for charges against Daniel in his conduct of government affairs, but they were unable to do so. They could find no corruption in him, because he was trustworthy and neither corrupt nor negligent. 5Finally these men said, “We will never find any basis for charges against this man Daniel unless it has something to do with the law of his God.” 6So these administrators and satraps went as a group to the king and said: “May King Darius live forever! 7The royal administrators, prefects, satraps, advisers and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any god or human being during the next thirty days, except to you, Your Majesty, shall be thrown into the lions’ den. 8Now, Your Majesty, issue the decree and put it in writing so that it cannot be altered—in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.” 9So King Darius put the decree in writing.
10Now when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he had done before. 11Then these men went as a group and found Daniel praying and asking God for help. 12So they went to the king and spoke to him about his royal decree: “Did you not publish a decree that during the next thirty days anyone who prays to any god or human being except to you, Your Majesty, would be thrown into the lions’ den?”
The king answered, “The decree stands—in accordance with the law of the Medes and Persians, which cannot be repealed.”
13Then they said to the king, “Daniel, who is one of the exiles from Judah, pays no attention to you, Your Majesty, or to the decree you put in writing. He still prays three times a day.” 14When the king heard this, he was greatly distressed; he was determined to rescue Daniel and made every effort until sundown to save him.
15Then the men went as a group to King Darius and said to him, “Remember, Your Majesty, that according to the law of the Medes and Persians no decree or edict that the king issues can be changed.”
16So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”

 

[PreachersWife2004]

If obeying the lord in your mind, causes you to break the law, maybe you need to think about some things.

Be careful with that. There are some places where it is against the law to worship God or be a Christian.

God instructs us to obey man's law unless man's law dictates we do something that is against God's law. For many, providing a service to something they consider sinful would fall under breaking God's law.

I know that your solution is that those people shouldn't be in business, but that's discrimination in its own way as well.

 

[bhsmte]

Okay, it's legal in Las Vegas. Can a prostitute in LV refuse to have sex with someone because that person is gay?



or how about the t-shirt maker that didn't want to make t-shirts and now has to go to sensitivity training? REALLY?

Maybe quit crafting anti-discrimination laws. You don't change minds that way. If anything, the government telling us how we should feel about certain people just because they're a certain color or a certain orientation ought to scare the living daylights out of people. What happens when the government doesn't swing YOUR way?

Any recognized business, that serves the public, can not refuse a product or service they normally offer to any protected class in that state. Not sure if certain regulations are carved out, for prostitutes, in Nevada though.

One important rule of thumb to follow and this applies to employment law and discrimination issues.

"If you do for one, you must do for all".

 

[bhsmte]

Be careful with that. There are some places where it is against the law to worship God or be a Christian.

God instructs us to obey man's law unless man's law dictates we do something that is against God's law. For many, providing a service to something they consider sinful would fall under breaking God's law.

I know that your solution is that those people shouldn't be in business, but that's discrimination in its own way as well.

Here is the bottom line:

Assuring equal rights to everyone, vs allowing religious beliefs to drive refusal of service to someone in a public business.

I don't know what else to say, we live in a country that heavily values equal rights and other rights such as; freedom of speech and freedom of religion are not limitless, when they infringe on taking away equal rights to others.

Not only is the constitution interpreted this way, but from a culture standpoint, the populous is agreeing with it in larger majorities each and every year.

So, my statement stands, regarding if following what someone perceives as God's laws would cause them to break the law, they have some serious thinking to do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Any recognized business, that serves the public, can not refuse a product or service they normally offer to any protected class in that state. Not sure if certain regulations are carved out, for prostitutes, in Nevada though.

One important rule of thumb to follow and this applies to employment law and discrimination issues.

"If you do for one, you must do for all".

So what if a Christian photographer was asked to film a straight couple having kinky sex with each other? The couple doesn't want to just put a camera on a tripod at the foot of the bed, but instead wants a professional to be there videographing them having sex from all angles, including close-ups. The Christian photographer refuses. Do you think the Christian photographer is breaking any laws or discriminating? After all, If you do for one, you must do for all.

 

[Aldebaran]

Here is the bottom line:

Assuring equal rights to everyone, vs allowing religious beliefs to drive refusal of service to someone in a public business.

I don't know what else to say, we live in a country that heavily values equal rights and other rights such as; freedom of speech and freedom of religion are not limitless, when they infringe on taking away equal rights to others.

You assume having a one particular photographer (even though there are others) do their picture-taking at your wedding is a right.

 

[bhsmte]

So what if a Christian photographer was asked to film a straight couple having kinky sex with each other? The couple doesn't want to just put a camera on a tripod at the foot of the bed, but instead wants a professional to be there videographing them having sex from all angles, including close-ups. The Christian photographer refuses. Do you think the Christian photographer is breaking any laws or discriminating? After all, If you do for one, you must do for all.

It would depend if the photographer does nudity or inappropriate contentography as part of his service line. If he doesn't do that type of work, he can refuse it. If he has done that work for others, he can't refuse to service the one's asking for it.

It would be like going to a hair salon and asking the person to give you a certain type of hair cut, that the beautician had never done before and did not have experience performing. Let's say the person asking for it was gay as well. Would the beautician have to offer the service to the gay person asking for it? The answer is no, because the beautician has not offered that service to anyone else and does not have the skills to perform it. If the beautician had performed that type of haircut before, then they would have to provide the service.

Does that clear it up for you?

 

[bhsmte]

You assume having a one particular photographer (even though there are others) do their picture-taking at your wedding is a right.

The right, is to be treated; "equally".

That's why it is called; equal rights.

 

[Aldebaran]

The right, is to be treated; "equally".

That's why it is called; equal rights.

Equally in what way? Do I have to treat a woman the same as a man by calling the woman "Sir"? What if a man asks me out on a date? Can I refuse since I'm not gay? Am I not treating the man differently than I would a woman based on my own preferences?

 

[bhsmte]

Equally in what way? Do I have to treat a woman the same as a man by calling the woman "Sir"? What if a man asks me out on a date? Can I refuse since I'm not gay? Am I not treating the man differently than I would a woman based on my own preferences?

We are talking about a business serving the public and you are relating it to someone asking you out on a date?

Have you not figured out yet, a person can refuse a date proposal from anyone, for any reason they choose, or does that have to be explained to you, why it is much different, than opening a business and serving the public?

Nothing further for me to add on this thread, as I have made the points I have wished to make.

 

[Aldebaran]

We are talking about a business serving the public and you are relating it to someone asking you out on a date?

Have you not figured out yet, a person can refuse a date proposal from anyone, for any reason they choose, or does that have to be explained to you, why it is much different, than opening a business and serving the public?

Nothing further for me to add on this thread, as I have made the points I have wished to make.

No, don't run away. I'd like to know why you think it's ok for me to make a decision in my personal life according to my own convictions, but that the government needs to keep me from doing so if I were running a business. It seems to be a double standard here.

 

[bhsmte]

No, don't run away. I'd like to know why you think it's ok for me to make a decision in my personal life according to my own convictions, but that the government needs to keep me from doing so if I were running a business. It seems to be a double standard here.

Asked and answered, read my posts.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

No, don't run away. I'd like to know why you think it's ok for me to make a decision in my personal life according to my own convictions, but that the government needs to keep me from doing so if I were running a business. It seems to be a double standard here.

I'm stunned you actually need to ask that question. *smh*

 

[Hetta]

Personal life does not =/= business. A person can discriminate all they want to in their personal life. People may think that person is a creep, but so long as you're not actually harming, oh well. However, when a person sets up a business and offers goods to the public, that's no longer personal, that's a public business and is subject to the laws of the land. If anyone doesn't want to abide by the laws of the land, they should not open businesses.

 

[loveofourlord]

with the new changes last few days whats the number up to now? Heard something about arizona and Alaska I think...or were some just dealing with those that were legal due to SCOTUS?

 

[mafwons]

Personal life does not =/= business. A person can discriminate all they want to in their personal life. People may think that person is a creep, but so long as you're not actually harming, oh well. However, when a person sets up a business and offers goods to the public, that's no longer personal, that's a public business and is subject to the laws of the land. If anyone doesn't want to abide by the laws of the land, they should not open businesses.

This is as strong a stance as if someone has a business they can serve or not serve who they like. Neither the you must serve everyone equally or you may descriminate in line with your personal beliefs will worknin this instance. This is a tough question and I can be sure I do not have the answer, but I know it is not to be found to the left or to the right. I for example find homosexual act to be abhorrent and and my God makes it clear he finds them detestable. I on the other hand am not uncomfortable around gay people and have several LGBT friends and aquaintences (who know I do not support their lifestyle). If one of these friends got married I would have nothing to do with the wedding, including opposing it. It is not my place to stop them and it is against my beliefs to in any way further them.

Now if I am in business say building houses I would see no reason to discriminate against those with a sexual orientation I cannot support because my work does not in any way directly aid their union. I am a landlord and I do not and would not ask about sexual orientation before I rent to someone. On the other hand if I am a photographer I would not want to render my services for a wedding or for "family" photgraphs, and I believe that is reasonable. If I make cakes I would not want to make a cake with two brides or two grooms on it this is quite reasonable. If however I am a cab driver and refuse transport to the newly wed couple this is a problem.

The other thing that worries me about this is how long until unwilling churches are sycked into this. Will any pastor who has every made the mistake of performing a ceremony for previously divorced people become prey for the gay agenda because of his obvious disregard for the sanctity of marriage? This topic is one that is going to cause some real problems, and perhaps the best witness for Christ is not to fightbthis tooth and nail but if you are in a business that might be targeted in order to futher this perversion, call it a day.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Any recognized business, that serves the public, can not refuse a product or service they normally offer to any protected class in that state. Not sure if certain regulations are carved out, for prostitutes, in Nevada though.

One important rule of thumb to follow and this applies to employment law and discrimination issues.

"If you do for one, you must do for all".

This is not really a business model. For example, there's several body shops that would refuse to do work on foreign cars. There are many salons that won't cut men's hair and a lot of barbers that won't cut women's hair.

And again, I ask: how do these businesses become PRIVATE?

And no, I highly doubt a prostitute would get in trouble for refusing to have sex with someone because they are gay. There's a little thing called consent that gets in the way.

 

[Cearbhall]

Okay, it's legal in Las Vegas. Can a prostitute in LV refuse to have sex with someone because that person is gay?

Are you telling me that you think someone who is having sex for money would have a strong argument in this case?

Maybe quit crafting anti-discrimination laws. You don't change minds that way. If anything, the government telling us how we should feel about certain people just because they're a certain color or a certain orientation ought to scare the living daylights out of people. What happens when the government doesn't swing YOUR way?

I will never understand how you can think that anti-discrimination laws harm you or any other business owner. Never.

 

[loveofourlord]

This is not really a business model. For example, there's several body shops that would refuse to do work on foreign cars. There are many salons that won't cut men's hair and a lot of barbers that won't cut women's hair.

And again, I ask: how do these businesses become PRIVATE?

And no, I highly doubt a prostitute would get in trouble for refusing to have sex with someone because they are gay. There's a little thing called consent that gets in the way.

well the body shop again is dealing with apples and oranges.

Lets go back to a religious thing. If a gay person wants a wedding cake made by a baker that makes wedding cakes he has too bake it because thats descrimination.

But if I say am a gay jewish, woman who worships Jesus, and go into a muslim resteraunt and demand to have a pork meal, even though I'm a half dozen protected groups, because the resteraunt doesn't sell pork I can't demand it. BUT if I walk into a KKK resteraunt and ask for a meal and they refuse because of any single one of those thigns, or all of them then they arn't allowed because it's descrimination.