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Featured If you keep sinning after you are saved are you still saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not a person on this site (or anywhere else) can answer your initial question. Not judging unto condemnation is not determining the eternal status of another. The best we can say is it doesn't look good... there should be a character change in us when we turn away from the world and to God... and if nothing changes then I question the profession of faith. And... we can talk to this person, try to correct them, even shun them if their sin is a cancer in the congregation. But we are not who determines who is and is not saved. That job is God's alone because He alone can see the heart.
     
  2. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    There’s truth. Anyone can ask me to show how you take scripture out of context, and I’ll show them. That’s the truth.
     
  3. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree and that was pretty funny. But I would throw in that while we might not reach a point in this life where we never slip up... the goal should be not to slip up. The person described in the OP would sound more like somebody who made a profession of faith and then never changed...just kept living the way they wanted to live.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    I will leave you with the last word. I think you need it more than me. We all answer only to God come judgment day. I will pray for you and hope to see you in God's Kingdom.
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Pelagius, in his own writings, says that the human freedom of the will is such that man is completely free in his will to either sin or to not sin. Pelagius does not deny that the Christian receives divine help from God, but Pelagius does advocate the perfect freedom of the will to either good or evil.

    Is it wrong, therefore, to say that Pelagius believed that man could, on account of his will, simply will himself to a life of sinlessness and perfect obedience to God's commandments? After all, Pelagius calls it "blasphemy" to say that God has commanded anything impossible of man by the will, as he says here:

    "We do also abhor the blasphemy of those who say that any impossible thing is commanded to man by God; or that the commandments of God cannot be performed by any one man, but that by all men taken together they may:" - Pelagius' Confession of Faith, in his letter to Pope Innocent I, c. 417 AD

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You do realize this is the typical response I get, right?
    I get a lot of talk from the Belief Alone Proponent in how they are right, but when it comes to actually explaining the verses I put forth, it just rarely ever happens. I know why. It is because one cannot really refute the points I made with Scripture. So unless you explain the points I made with Scripture, the Berean type believer will be able to check the truth for themselves and see that I am right. Your non answer only helps to benefit my position with Scripture, dear sir.

    So I suppose I should thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  7. Jermayn

    Jermayn New Member

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    Hi Neostarwcc,
    I'm still asking God for understanding in this area as well, but I'll tell you what God has revealed to me thus far.

    1. If you never told anyone you were a Christian, would anyone be able to tell you were a Christian? If you're living the exact same lifestyle as the guy or girl who doesn't believe in God, I think that says a lot about where you stand with God in regards to salvation. - 2 Corinthians 6:17 - Jame 2:14-26

    2. Do you acknowledge sin as sin or try to justify it? Homosexuality and abortion are hot button issues (among others) we have today where people will deny what is written in God's word to justify their actions. If you don't even have enough faith in God to trust God know what he's talking about, do you have enough faith to trust that Jesus will save you when your die? - Romans 1:18-32

    3. If you're struggling with sin and you acknowledge it's sin, you need to re-evaluate your priorities and your relationship with God. This doesn't mean your not saved, as you obviously feel guilt about whatever it is your doing. I had issues for a long time with things after I was saved and I knew they were sinful. God showed me that I was trying to handle them on my own instead of getting close to him and being renewed by the Holy Spirit daily. If this is you, then it speaks more about how close your relationship with God is rather than about whether or not your saved at all. Romans 7 and Psalms 91 are two great chapters to read regarding this.

    I hope that helps in your search for knowledge, wisdom, and understanding on this issue. Keep on asking God for it, he will never let you down.
     
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  8. bmjackson

    bmjackson Newbie

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    It is true that a man is completely free to sin or not to sin - look at the example of unsaved ex-alcoholics.

    But to walk without any sin is another matter, and Pelagius said that grace is required for that. It is a mistake to confuse the two which Augustine did. Augustione argued that no action of man is without sin.

    Indeed it is blasphemy to say that God commands what is impossible.
     
  9. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    You can’t even get that right. ^_^
     
  10. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    The secret is Christ. For man this is impossible, but for God, all things are possible.....Therefore we can do all things through Christ.

    This is not a goal you strive for and achieve... it is something that Happens to you by no good will of your own.....
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    So how many non-sinners have you met?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I’ve done it, and shown how you are wrong. But you have stopped responding. Your non-replies only help to benefit my position with scripture.
     
  13. bmjackson

    bmjackson Newbie

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    I have 'met' many through their writings and if I had lived in the 19th and early 20th century I would have been able to say like Wesley, many. But here we are in 2019 with few if any. Times have been like this in the past - in dark ages.
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    In other words you haven't met any. Also, what "dark ages" do you refer to? The Greek dark ages? Do you know something about the pre-Homeric period following the Bronze Age Collapse that no one else does?

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  15. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Would you have us believe that a godly believer is one who struggles with sinfulness?

    It is far more dangerous to put one in heaven, who struggles with sinfulness, than to keep one out for the same. As the former breeds complacency, while the latter could possible go on to perfection, in a few cases.
     
  16. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    You are correct.....The path is only for a few.... But I would encourage you to continue to strive for perfection even thought literally everyone else will not be able to do so. You are not everyone.....you are special....chosen....not just called..
     
  17. bmjackson

    bmjackson Newbie

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    It is hard to say without meeting the person, or have their family and friends agree. I have come across quite a few online but their definition of sin is in question. In the flesh - no I admit it.

    There have been times when this doctrine was denied. It is prevelent during genuine times of revival.
     
  18. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    What value is there in pointing out another's sin, when your previous arguments center around the belief that everyone sins and will continue to do so?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  19. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Are you of the mind that no one can achieve more than you are able to achieve? Is everyone elses ceiling only as high as the one you created for yourself? If you do not play drums, is it now impossible for others to be able to play drums as well?

    I find it unwise for one to believe that, just because I have not achieve something, no one can.... And even more unwise to hinder another from trying to achieve levels solely because i am unable to reach them....
     
  20. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Have I ever argued that we shouldn’t worry about sin? Or that sin isn’t a big deal? No. And I never will. I agree against the false notion that we can be sinless in this life because it puts a burden on Christians. It’s law-driven and not gospel-centered. It focuses on what we can do for Christ, and takes the glory away from what Christ did for us.
     
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