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If you do not eat pork, Christ will profit you nothing

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, May 28, 2013.

  1. Tomb523

    Tomb523 Member

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    As one who professes the roots of Judaism in worship of God through Jesus, not all custom and laws are applicable, though what they attempted to convey still is applicable. In OT times there were many cultures in the land God gave to Israel. These cultures engaged in the worship of other gods and idols, practiced sexual acts as a means of worship to these other deities and sacrificed various animals including and most often pigs and other lesser animals (considered by most to be less valuable than sheep or cattle). The mosaic laws were in opposition to what is now known as cuneiform laws (so named after the language in which they were written) and the sacrifices made to God were of greater value than those of the pagan practices.

    God's intent was to have His chosen people to be set apart (made holy) from these other cultures and thus the mosaic laws were created to show God's people as "different" from others of the time. Even before the law, the commandment to circumcise was given to Abraham to show him and his descendants as "different" or set apart (in that day and age may also have benefited in improved hygiene).

    Also regarding the food laws, modern analysis tends to show that the animals that were forbidden tend to be those that consume the dead and dying or clean/filter the waste of other animals. Those allowed generally are vegetarian or insect eaters (insects were often considered clean as well such as locust on which John the Baptist dined). So with perhaps less known about cooking and preserving foods, selecting the right animal may have had some health benefit in addition to following practices different from other cultures.

    But as others have pointed out, the keeping of these laws is not what leads to salvation, but rather what "flows from heart". Not what we consume will save or condemn us, but rather how devoted we are to God. The ceremonial washing of the cup did not correct the filth that dwelt within the heart of the person who washed the cup. Salvation comes from a pure heart and a pure love of God and no practice can cause that...but having that can cause certain practices.

    Being born a new creature with that pure heart is what causes us to turn from sinful practices. We do the practice because our heart is telling us to, not because the law is telling us to. This is why things we did before we were saved suddenly become disgusting to us after we are saved. It is this behavior that sets us apart or makes us holy, not what we eat.
     
  2. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    The last sentence of the Quote

    "It is this behavior that sets us apart or makes us holy, not what we eat."

    1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye Holy; for I am Holy.

    Where in Scripture is this Written, It is In the Torah, What is Clean and Unclean, What is Food and What is not Food, The Entire Chapter Leviticus 11:44

    A person that knows the Torah, as they read this, would know that Peter is saying, Being Set-Apart has Everything to do with behavior

    Not the hearers of the Word, but the doers are Justified. Romans 2:13

    Swine's flesh was never a food, so no matter how much it is prayed over it is still an Abomination

    And would you like to try and explain why those that are still eating swine are consumed at the second coming. Isaiah 66:15 - Isaiah 66:17

    Either His Torah is being written upon the heart or it is not Hebrews 8:10

    And since so many have received a Jesus that came to do away with the Torah, have never repented, received a different spirit to walk in, they think they see, but are blind, wretched, miserable and naked.

    BE HOLY FOR HE IS HOLY
     
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  3. Tomb523

    Tomb523 Member

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    Reading the passages in context, I believe God is talking about the pagans and their worship of idols. They prepare themselves as if to be sanctified, but sanctification is to a false God and not to the true God. This is evidenced by the use of a forbidden practice, i.e.: eating of swine, to illustrate it is the pagans, who ate swine in a festival to a false god, who will be consumed with fire. This is echoed in Isaiah 65:3 "to a people who continually provoke Me to My face, sacrificing in the gardens and burning incense on altars of brick,"

    My premise is that forbidding the eating of swine was because it was a common practice among pagans to offer in sacrifice to pagan gods, pigs. Antiochus IV (Epiphanes), the king of Syria sacrificed a pig on the alter of the temple in order to desecrate the temple to stop the Jews from sacrificing to the one True God. It is pagan ritual vs Jewish ritual.

    1Cor8 Paul talks about how to behave with food that is offered in sacrifice to an idol: 4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.”

    He goes on:
    7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

    And his final warning is if we do chose to eat this meat, we should not do so in front of someone who's faith is weak and cannot discern the difference:

    9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.
     
  4. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    What does YESHUA have to say about swine? Positive or Negative

    Matthew 7:6

    Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Negative

    A legion of devils begged Him to be cast into a herd of 2000 swine being kept, these were not wild swine, these were being fed, to be eaten. Mark 5:14

    He obliges their request, they knew His law about swine, thinking they could get off easy, They didn't, the herd ran violently down the hill, off a cliff, and drowned In the sea

    Safe to say YESHUA, did not consider this a loss of food

    Matthew 8:32

    And He said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

    Negative


    The younger son, Receives His Inheritance, ends up in the fields with the swine and wishing he could be fed with what the swine are eating.

    Luke 15:15

    And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

    Luke 15:16

    And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.


    Negative


    What you reference in Romans 14 has to do with being a vegetarian or eating meat at all, Because of the same issue of 1 Corinthians 8:7 He was in Corinth, when he wrote Romans, able to speak directly first hand to them, fresh on his mind - The Book of Romans 66 Miraculous Books that are One.

    The esteeming of days, July 4th, should a Believer keep that day?

    Birthdays, Should believers celebrate them, Job's kids and John the Baptist.

    As their is no specific provision, let each be fully convinced in their conscience.

    Nothing to do with His appointed times that Paul still kept. Acts of the Apostles 20:16

    Not making void the Torah Romans 3:31

    And when antiochus sacrificed a pig on the Altar of God that was the foreshadowing of the abomination of desolation.

    Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit?

    The favorite thing for christians to eat on easter is swine.

    No wonder, ishtar commanded that a swine be sacrificed and eaten on that day too, because a swine killed her son tammuz.

    They even call the name of the day YESHUA rose from the grave after her.

    OY VEY AND OY VEY = HORRIBLE ABOMINATION

    And as for your interpretation of Isaiah 66:15-17 the distinctions you imposed on the text does not exist, just like the rest of your LAWLESS argument.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  5. Tomb523

    Tomb523 Member

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    It is not only interpretation, but that of many bible scholars.
    https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/isaiah-66-17.html
    and here:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=G...#v=onepage&q=isaiah 66:-17 commentary&f=false


    You are missing my point entirely. Yes, to a Jew, swine provides a very vivid image of something that is detestable to God so it is used extensively. Dog had a similar connotation, so when Jesus said to gentile woman: "“It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs” (Matthew 15:26)", would indicate gentiles are not better than dogs, but yet through His sacrifice gentiles are grafted onto the vine and all that is required in belief in Jesus as the son of God.

    Gentiles to Jews were always considered unclean and a Jew was not to socialize with them in any manner, but Peter was given the vision concerning the unclean food in relation to help a soon to arrive gentile:

    …14“No, Lord!” Peter answered, “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure” that God has made clean.

    Here, unclean food imagery is used figuratively for gentile. The use of that imagery and the non-compliance of food law for gentiles is not mutually exclusive. In fact, I believe that one of the primary tenements of Jesus' ministry was to correct interpretation of scripture the primary one being that would could conform to the letter of the law and still be unrighteous. That the law was a guideline for acceptable behavior. What we eat does not make us righteous, but what we are in our hearts. The overriding commandment is contained in the Shema and repeated by Jesus -

    "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.…"
     
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, not through our keeping of the law (Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20). This includes the food laws of the Old Testament (1 Timothy 4:1-6).

    Therefore if I were to violate a food law of the Old Testament, that is not going to take away my salvation; because my faith in Jesus Christ is what saves me: and violating a food law of the Old Testament is something separate from faith in Jesus or lack thereof.

    In Galatians 3:17 we find that the law, which was 430 years after God's covenant with Abraham, is not going to make that covenant of no effect. God's covenant with Abraham is the promise of the Holy Ghost, in context. So then, the Holy Ghost, and thus salvation, is not going to depart from me if I violate a law of the Old Testament (while of course the fact that He is in me means that I am going to be obedient for the most part).
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  7. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    But if someone willingly refuses 2 Peter 2:21 after knowing the way of Righteousness Psalms 119:142 which the Holy Spirit leads a believer into John 16:13 that is Required of those that worship Elohim, that one must abide by or grieve the Spirit of Truth if Saved. John 4:24, Ephesians 4:30

    1 John 4:6

    Shema Yisrael YAHUWAH Eloheinu YAHUWAH Echad, W'Ahabta ET YAHUWAH Eloheika bekol lebabka, w'bekol naphsheika w'bekol moedeika

    Psalms 40:8 Romans 7:22
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    If we love Jesus, we will obey His commandments.

    However as those who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, we are no longer condemned by our own sins. If we fail to keep the law perfectly, the blood of Jesus Christ is the provision for the forgiveness of our sins.
     
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