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If you do not eat pork, Christ will profit you nothing

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, May 28, 2013.

  1. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    Another Jesus 2 Corinthians 11:4

    bear with them? How Long O my Elohim

    So If a person receives another Jesus who they say is the Christ, Are they born of God. Impossible.

    YESHUA came to make the Torah Honorable Isaiah 42:21 - To fill the words of the Torah and the Prophets to the full. Matthew 5:17 fulfill is Pleroo in Greek, Fill to the full cause to abound. Matthew 28:20


    YESHUA came to keep the Torah, so that He could do away with the curse that was against us, His law - and if anyone tries to keep it, they have fallen from Grace.


    One of these representations is Another Jesus
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Both refer to the same Jesus. For I agree with representation #1, and representation #2 is substantiated by Galatians 3:10-13, Galatians 5:1-4.

    The key to our understanding is to realize that our trust is not to be in our ability to keep the law but in Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2, Galatians 2:16).

    Now if our trust is indeed in Jesus Christ then we will be transformed into His same image from glory to glory as we behold Him (2 Corinthians 3:18). We will be sanctified; virtue will begin to develop in our hearts and minds. And this virtue, based on love and the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:4, Romans 5:5, Romans 13:8-10) is the fulfilling of the law within us. We will not violate any law because of the virtue God has placed within us. Now this virtue, in some, appears gradually over time as the result of believing in Jesus. In others, it explodes into a mighty work of sanctification from the getgo. But if it is the former, they will not necessarily be immediately keeping the law perfectly. Thank goodness for the forgiveness of Christ through His shed blood!

    Now His blood has the effect of sanctifying us (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7); and sanctification means holiness; and holiness means that the law is not going to condemn any of our behaviour because our behaviour is exemplary in the holiness of the Lord.

    It is not that we are focused on that set of do's and don'ts; it is that we are focused on Christ and are being transformed into His same image from glory to glory; we are being sanctified through His Spirit. As a result the righteousness of the law becomes fulfilled within us (Romans 8:4).

    You can see how Christ is the focus and not our performance. If it were my performance that God was after, I might get discouraged because no one can live up perfectly to His standard (Romans 3:23). But since I am saved by His grace and He also sanctifies me through grace, I can rest knowing that what He requires of me, He also will perform within me simply because I believe in Him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    My prayers are also for you...
     
  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Now I also want to say that if any man turns his ears away from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be an abomination.

    Therefore I teach that the law is the specifics of the love of God. We learn how to more specifically love God and our neighbor by studying the law. But because His love is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5), His commandments are not grievous or burdensome (1 John 5:3). We already have the fulfillment of the law within our hearts, so obeying the specifics is just details of how we are loving the Lord and our neighbor. If we don't have this love, then the law reveals to us our sin and our lack of love. But if we have this love, when we look into the law we will find that we have already been keeping it because we are new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  5. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    NO




    Meet our Teacher – Matthew Moshe Nolan
    I was born in England and educated in a private all boys boarding school. Later, I left England for Israel when I was eighteen years old. This experience in the Holy Land changed my outlook on life forever. I then moved to America and after years of aimlessly wandering came to faith in Messiah Yahusha when I was in my mid twenties.

    I was initially taught and discipled in the scriptures at Calvary Chapel where I served as a youth leader and a college bible teacher. First began teaching at Calvary Chapel to fill in for the senior pastor and was later appointed to be an elder to run the college and career group along with all the outdoor adventure ministries. It was here that a lot of experience was gained in leadership and discipleship.

    A deeper hunger for the scriptures, stripped of religious tradition and paganism drove me into the study of the Torah. At this time I also embarked upon unraveling the Brit Chadasha (New Testament) in its full Hebraic and Torah based context, this took years of meticulous study to remove the leaven from New Testament translations. Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek translations were sought. I received a Semichut/ordination after studying through a Two House Netzarim Israelite Yeshiva.

    Who Are We?
    Torah To The Tribes is an independent and unaffiliated congregation located on the West Coast of the USA and has a worldwide outreach through internet broadcasts. Our congregational family is a very important part of our ministry because it brings brethren together and builds our community. The hope is to draw families together in a safe healthy environment where scriptural study, worship and community can nourish the body of Messiah. Join us weekly either online or in person on our journey of Biblical Exploration.


    https://www.torahtothetribes.com/affirmation-of-truth/


    Considering Joining them online or in person, just found this guy - have not read any of the articles yet or listened to any of the podcasts - just found out that the meetings are in Portland. Probably just online for now, I may take a flight later, I do have a aunt and cousins in Vancouver Washington that I could see also just across the river.

    That's the cart ahead of the horse at this point, only YAH knows, but taking a trip kinda sounds like a good idea.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  6. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Were you going to make a point by this? He was in Calvary Chapel, are you saying he is false because of that?

    I guess not...which is evidenced by the editing of your post, which tells me you want to follow him. May I ask why? You haven't even heard any of his teachings to test them by the word.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    @SonOfZion:

    What is it about these statements that you are saying NO to?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  8. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    Galatians 3:13

    2 Corinthians 5:21

    Colossians 2:14

    Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;

    Ordinances 5 times in 5 verses - Dogma in Greek - Our Sins, not His Torah.

    YESHUA died for His unfaithful wife that He had Divorced Jeremiah 3:8

    He was hung on a tree - And became a curse for His Unfaithful Wife, took her punishment.

    Romans 7:1 Is for those that Know what the Torah Teaches

    Follow along, YESHUA Divorces Israel, but not Judah - He can not re-marry His wife that He put away, that would be an Abomination. Deuteronomy 24:4

    But if her husband Dies Romans 7:2 Discharged from that Law, marriage and re-marriage, the Law of her husband.

    She is free to Re-Marry

    Romans 7:4
    Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Mashiach; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto Elohim.

    Remember Paul starts out

    Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?


    He is not speaking to those that do not know what the Torah Teaches

    The Gospel, YESHUA died for His Unfaithful wife, so that She could re-marry Him who was raised from the Dead.

    The law that has become dead, Is the Law that said He could not Re-marry His Unfaithful wife... Dead to that specific provision - The main Dogma that was previously Against Us. What He died for, Our Sins.

    I have Never heard the full Gospel preached by a CC pastor or attender. But I have heard, and commonly so, this as another proof text, that the Torah was done away... Sadly so, they just don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  9. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    My understanding is that when we look at Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19 we are not to take it out of context of Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16, Galatians 5:22-23, Romans 8:4-7; and Romans 5:5 with Romans 13:8-10.

    What all of these passages mean to me together is that as believers in Christ, we are governed by the law from the inside (as the law is written on tables of human hearts; through the love of God being shed abroad in them) but not condemned by it from the outside (as it is written on stone). We are obedient to the commandments of the Lord because we are new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17); but we are not condemned over a failure to keep them...because we are forgiven of past, present, and future sin (Romans 4:6-8) through the blood of Christ (Romans 3:25, Romans 5:9). This lack of condemnation over failure to keep the law is based on us having a born again heart, which gives us the desire to obey the law; and even more than the law, the Lord Himself. There is therefore now no condemnation for them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1. If we are spiritually-minded, then in our minds we are subject to the law of God, and cannot be otherwise (inverse meaning of Romans 8:7).

    Therefore
    the provision for failure in the blood of Christ applies only to those who are sincerely desiring to obey the Lord in everything; who have repented from walking in the direction of sin. Jesus said, This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. John 15:12-14.

    So brother @SonOfZion, what is it that you would define as the full gospel? Have I preached only a portion of the gospel message above? What is missing in what I have posted to you? I am sincerely interested in what you think I am missing in my presentation of the gospel, so that I can in the future give a more complete presentation of the truth of God's word if I am indeed missing something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    So what are you saying: that NO; you do not believe that these scriptures are in the word of truth?

    Or are you referencing these scriptures to back up something that you want to say to me?

    I'm sorry I am a little dense and it is unclear to me what you are trying to say. Please elaborate further for me, ok?
     
  11. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    YESHUA said that His Father Loved Him, Because He was laying down His Life for Two Folds of People.

    John 10:16
    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one Shepherd.

    17
    Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.

    Ezekiel 37:22
    And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

    Other Sheep - The House of Israel, who are scattered throughout the World. James 1:1

    This Fold - YESHUA came unto His Own ( The House of Judah) He is The Lion of the Tribe of Judah.


    YESHUA died for Two Folds, so that He could make them One

    The New Covenant is ONLY with The House of Israel and the House of Judah Hebrews 8:8, Jeremiah 33:31

    Heb 8:8
    For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

    Jeremiah 33:31
    Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


    Calvary chapel does not see themselves as a part of this covenant, as they deny that they are Israel when redeemed. Galatians 3:29, Isaiah 41:8, Ephesians 2:10-11

    What Covenant does CC have?

    They don't have One, there isn't a covenant in the Scriptures for a non-Israel people...

    Calvary denies they are Israel, deems anyone who believes that they are, as replacement theology teachers.

    There are Twelve Gates into the New Jerusalem, Each Gate is named for a tribe of Israel

    Blessed are those that Keep the commandments that they may have the right to enter through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14

    Hence, CC does not know the true Heritage of the Redeemed, who they are supposed to be biblically.

    YESHUA did not die for a gentile, non-Israelite church.

    The doctrines of CC are in error from beginning to end.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    The problem with Replacement Theology is that it says that the church has replaced Israel and therefore Israel itself is no longer the recipient of God's promises to Israel. But clearly God's promises to Israel do belong to the seed of Jacob.

    I don't believe in Replacement Theology myself, but I do believe that anything God has promised to Israel can be obtained by Gentiles in the church through faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20).

    Also, the new covenant, scripturally, is clearly for Gentiles as well as Jews (Ephesians 3:6, Romans 1:16, Romans 9:30).
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Also I can't see for the life of me how your post applies to what it was in response to. Everything seems like it is not connected at all. Can you elaborate on how what you said in post #251 applies to what I said in post #249?
     
  14. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    Gentile is a made up word, an Interpretation, not a Translation !!!!!!!

    Jacob Blesses Ephraim

    And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become fulness of the nations. Genesis 48:19

    fulness of the nations / In Hebrew "Melo haGoyim"

    Melo KJV - full (12x), fulness (8x), all that is therein (7x), all (2x), fill (2x), handful (2x), multitude (2x), handful (with H7062) (1x), handfuls (with H2651) (1x).

    Gen 48:19 LXX Greek Septuagint - ἔσται εἰς πλῆθος (Plethos G4128) ἐθνῶν (Ethnos/ n - G1484)


    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel (House of Judah), until the fulness of the Ethnon/nations be come in. Rom 11:25

    Rom 11:25 πλήρωμα (Pleroma G4138) τῶν ἐθνῶν (Ethnos / n - G1484) εἰσέλθῃ - be come in

    Pleroma - KJV fulness (13x), full (1x), fulfilling (1x), which is put in to fill up (1x), pierce that filled up (1x).

    The Fulness of the People are "Ephraim" - In Who's hand is the Stick of Joseph - Israel

    The Fulness of the People/Nations: Ethnon - When this word is translated as gentiles (It's a false interpretation) that does not convey the true meaning of Ethnos. The same thing goes with the synonymous Hebrew word Goyim when it is mis-translated as "heathen: or anything other than its true Biblical meaning - People or Nations


    Say unto them, Thus saith Adonai YHWH; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine Hand.


    And I will make them one Goy in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two Goyim, neither shall they be divided into two Kingdoms any more at all. Ezekiel 37:19-22


    Those that are not Jewish, who are in Messiah are a part of the Stick of Joseph.

    There is no such thing as a "gentile" church in the Bible

    The New Covenant is with the House of Israel and Judah ~ Jeremiah 31:31-33 Hebrews 8:8-10

    The House/Family you have become a part of, If you are in Messiah. Galatians 3:29, Isaiah 41:8, Ephesians 2:10-11

    James 1:1 in Hebrew is Jacob

    Luke 1:33 And He shall reign over the House of Jacob forever; And of His Kingdom there shall be no end.

    Jacob 1:1 Jacob...To the Twelve Tribes scattered abroad...

    The house of Judah is one fold of Israel with Benjamin and some Levis - Southern Kingdom, thus Israel (The only Israel representing in the first century ~ ( YESHUA laid His life down for Two Folds) The House of Judah and the House of Israel (Northern Kingdom), This is why He said that the Father Loved Him


    John 10:16
    And other sheep (House of Israel) I have, which are not of this fold (House of Judah): them also I must bring, and they shall hear My Voice; and there shall be one Fold , and one Shepherd.

    17
    Therefore doth My Father Love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.

    The Stick of Joseph is the Northern Kingdom (10 Tribes)

    The Stick of Judah is the Southern Kingdom

    ~~~~

    There is not a covenant with CC anywhere, only Israel
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    I'm sorry, but the scriptures I gave show that the new covenant is for Gentiles as well as Jews. So I think we will have to agree to disagree.

    Ephesians 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ through the gospel.

    In context, Paul is not referring here to the stick of Joseph, he is clearly referring to actual Gentiles as he is the apostle to the Gentiles (see Ephesians 3:7-9, also Romans 11:13 below).

    Romans 1:16, For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Here Paul is referring clearly to the Greeks as a subsection of the Gentiles, not to Goyim or Ethnon but a group that would be found within the grouping of Goyim or Ethnon. Therefore the gospel applies to Greeks. Are Greeks of the stick of Joseph?

    Romans 9:30, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

    Again, Paul is referring to the people that he is called to minister to, as he is the apostle to the Gentiles; and historically also Paul's ministry to the Gentiles meant that he was the apostle to non-Jews (as that is the meaning of Gentiles here).

    See also Romans 11:13, For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.

    Paul was here writing to the Gentiles of Rome, in the epistle to the Romans.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  16. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    You either do not understand what was explained to you in the last post, or you are willingly refusing to see that Ephraim are the Ethnon/ People that you say are gentiles.

    - CC accuses others of what they have done -

    Replaced/never understood His true Heritage, inherited lies, a fake "gentile church" that are not Israel - Then Call others replacement theologians when they believe what the Bible plainly says, when they are the ones that are guilty of treason.

    Politically and theologically, the schemes of the devil are the same. May be his favorite tactic

    Word, nothing more to say.
     
  17. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    For Anyone

    Here is a Calvary Chapel church locator.

    Which makes it very simple to find the E-mails for every CC worldwide. (easier than having to deal with the police when handing out tracts) post #233

    I have written to nearly every one of them, on every continent where they are located at.

    Challenge, Send 100 letters to any 100 you choose, ask them to defend what has been said regarding their false dispensational teachings - To see if even 1 of them would be willing to Answer here to defend it.

    Give a Reason, For their hope in a " false gentile church" that has no Covenant

    Doubt even 1 would try

    they NEVER reply

    Arrogant to the Core

    https://calvarychapel.com/church-locator?query=&country=&continent=North+America&submit=Submit
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    I guess that's why the expose's of cc online are accurate .... i.e. don't trust cc any more than any other group you don't trust. Some of their teachings on this forum and elsewhere for years have been clearly exposed as false, yet they go on.... and on.... and on..... with people who don't realize it, or don't care.
     
  19. SonOfZion

    SonOfZion Member

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    Shalom

    It was not my intention to know about CC in depth, but circumstances throughout this journey of Faith have brought me in close contact regardless.

    That even involves family at a personal level and those running big calvary presently, and for their sake, will not get into details.

    The father of my good friend in High School was the principle of Baldwin Park High School - After being born again, I moved back to Covina from the South Bay where I came in contact with a CC that was being Pastored by Raul Ries - And then come to find out, my friends' dad expelled him from school before he became the martial arts preacher. He definitely should not be a teacher.

    Fortunately, because before being born again, I heard of his church, was invited to go, Fortunately never went.

    But I did go with someone that invited me on a CC men's retreat on Catalina Island, one time, Never, I repeat Never try to show them a different view than the pre-trib rapture standing around a fire pit, unless you are prepared for the possibility that you might get thrown in it. That didn't happen to me, left, went fishing, skipped their meetings after that. Nice Island when they're not around.

    Keep up the good fight brother.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
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  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Also, take a wild look at Ephesians 2:11-13 (another proof that Gentiles can be saved):

    Wherefore remember, that ye being in times past Gentiles in the flesh, who are (present tense) called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    Now this one actually substantiates your view that Gentiles who come to Christ are actually graffed into the olive tree (Israel). And I have actually believed this as someone who goes to Calvary Chapel.

    It also shows that the Gentiles, defined as the Uncircumcision by those who think that Circumcision in the flesh made by hands is important, are made nigh, not by being circumcised, but through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.

    However, in Replacement Theology, Israel itself is no longer in the olive tree and no longer a recipient of the promises that God specifically gave to the seed of Jacob; and this is what I disagree with.

    It is not to say that as a Gentile believer (if that is what I am) I am not graffed into Israel as a wild olive branch graffed into a good olive tree.

    Israel is that good olive tree; and many in Israel have been severed from their own olive tree because of unbelief in their Messiah. In fact, we are included in the olive tree because of our faith in Messiah.

    But a point to be made is that we ought not to be highminded about this but rather have a healthy fear. Because many in Israel were severed from the tree because of unbelief, and we stand by faith. Therefore let us have a healthy fear; for if God didn't spare the natural branches, let us be careful lest He also spare not us. We will be recipients of His goodness if we continue in His goodness.

    Israel will be graffed in again in the last days: all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26). They will be graffed into their own olive tree once again through faith in Messiah Jesus.

    Therefore the olive tree is Israel, and all who have their faith in Jesus are included in Israel.

    Yet the seed of Jacob will receive the promises given to Israel contrary to what Replacement Theology might tell you.
     
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