if you buy cheap clothes at the store are you sinning for CRUELTY?

[miamited]

HI gustave,

Just for fun, here's another 'fact' about life in Mexico. Here in the U.S. if you want a cold soda you stop at a convenience store and for a buck and a half you can get a 12oz cold soda in a can. In many parts of Mexico if you want a cold soda, you pick up the bottle (they don't have aluminum can soda much in Mexico) and take it to the cash register. There, the cashier takes a tube bag (kind of like the ones that our newspapers are delivered in) and pours the soda out of the bottle and into the bag and sticks a straw in the mouth of the bag. You hold the bag around the mouth and drink the soda from the bag. The cashier keeps the bottle to send back to the soda supplier. However, you only pay 15¢ for the 'bag' of soda. It can be difficult to set the bag soda down and so I would be in the habit of carrying a thermal mug around with me for the cashier to pour the soda in.

So, like I say, the world is not the United States of America.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Monna]

It's not only in Asia. I was once in Vietnam and was amazed when I saw nice men's ties for $1.00. I was even more amazed when I looked at the label and saw that it was made in Colombia on the other side of the Pacific. Whoever sold it to the Vietnamese probably made a profit, and the wholesaler in Haiphong selling it to the street hawker took a cut (after paying for transport from South America), and the guy selling it on the street in Hanoi also made some money on it. What on earth did the person, man, women or child who cut and sewed it make?

On the other hand, just because some piece of textile is expensive, there is no assurance that the taylor got a decent wage, or had good working conditions.

But there are more outrageous truths around us. We are repeatedly told that we must produce even more food crops to feed current and future hungry people. The truth is that a full 30% of food that is produced is wasted, a lot of the time deliberately. Think simply about how much food you chuck out of the kitchen every week... then think of what is chucked out by the supermarket. And what is poorly handled in the whole transport and wholesaling systems, to say nothing of what is produced on the farm but is not accepted for market (more offered than contracted, rejected because of irregular shape (!), other contract small print, etc.). And these absurdities are found in both advanced and developing countries. But in all cases it is the farmer who systematically loses most. Not just in Asia.

 

[GingerBeer]

because those clothes are fabricated by poor children and women in india and poor asian countries where the producers pay 5 dollars per month to their workers (slaves) without caring about their health and nothing

You could become a vegan hermit who wears only clothing made by yourself living in a cave unsuitable for wildlife and be careful not to pollute the surrounds. Maybe you'd be safe from sins of neglect then?

By all means spend your money according to conscience and be careful of conscience leading to sins of neglect of a different kind such as neglect of community, family, neighbours, and the poor who even when poorly paid and exploited may suffer loss if nobody buys their products.

 

[want-love]

Real life example: I was in Mexico many years ago and had a flat tire. I went to a shop that had a sign out that they repaired tires and took the tire in and a very happy toothless lady who seemed to be the sole owner and operator of the shop fixed the tire for me. When I asked how much? She said it was about $2.00 in American dollars. I was actually pleasantly amazed that I could get a tire repaired for so little and paid her more than she asked for because of my understanding of the U.S. economy. But, I didn't threaten her with bodily harm or rant and scream at her. I merely asked her how much and she said $2.00. I couldn't possibly understand how she could do it for so cheap, but she seemed perfectly happy with the charge and apparently knew she could buy food or take care of her business for that amount. So, we just need to understand that the world is not the United States of America.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

nobody likes other feeling pity of them

 

[want-love]

and the poor who even when poorly paid and exploited may suffer loss if nobody buys their products.

do you think this is a valid and good argument?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

because those clothes are fabricated by poor children and women in india and poor asian countries where the producers pay 5 dollars per month to their workers (slaves) without caring about their health and nothing

Since running around naked in public isn't an option, and poor folk even in usa cannot afford to be choosy, that limits the options on the table. Same with foods and how they are made and quality or lack thereof.

 

[GingerBeer]

do you think this is a valid and good argument?

It is a truth. The world is filled with exploitation and wickedness. It cannot be wholly avoided as long as you're in this world.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

some usa posters say "we can obtain clothes made by slaves but they cannot watch our hollywood movies for free"
i don't mean to offend nobody but this is what i feel
i don't live in usa

The weakness of the argument above though is that clothing is a necessity, while entertainment is not. It would be a better argument to say that qualifying persons should receive X amount of Y quality clothing for free, because qualifying persons cannot fit X or Y into their tight budget.

 

[GingerBeer]

Consecration begins this way

Joh 17:6-26 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I am coming to you, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.​

20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”​

Temptations to sin exist in this world. It is the nature of the world as it is now.

Mat 18:7-9 “Woe to the world for temptations to sin! For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the one by whom the temptation comes! 8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.​

The message is that Christians are to do good whenever they see the opportunity and to avoid evil whenever they see its presence but there is no way to wholly avoid evil in this world because the whole world is engulfed in evils.

 

[want-love]

The weakness of the argument above though is that clothing is a necessity, while entertainment is not. It would be a better argument to say that qualifying persons should receive X amount of Y quality clothing for free, because qualifying persons cannot fit X or Y into their tight budget.

entertainment is a necessity in countries that are a hell, in my opinion

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

entertainment is a necessity in countries that are a hell, in my opinion

I can see where you might be coming from and have a point. Sometimes entertainment (depending on what it is) can help with sanity in an insane world, it can have a therapeutic effect, it can help us get through miserable days. So I respect your opinion, while I may not agree 110%.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Every country has its own economy and its own culture unique to it. I think it is an error to look at other countries through the lens of our own economy and cultural values.

Values change from time-to-time as well. When I was about 13, I had a morning paper route that required me to get up at 4:30 AM to roll newspapers and hit the streets to pass them in the dark from my bike for a couple of hours before school. By the time I got to school, I had already worked 3 to 3 1/2 hours and peddled my bike 5 or 6 miles. After school, I was back on my bike pulling my lawn mower all over my neighborhood taking care of my lawn mowing business.

Now several decades later, morning papers are passed from cars by adults (who do a poorer job of getting it on the porch), and we have the idea that 13 year-olds roaming the streets in the dark at 5:00 AM isn't a safe or a good idea. Still, I was grateful for the job. It gave me some money in my pocket, taught me some work ethic, and allowed me to buy some clothes and things my parents were too poor to buy for me. I considered myself lucky, not exploited.

I think the answer for these 3rd world countries is not to take away from them what little opportunity they currently have, but to raise the standard of living in the country through economic development providing better-paying job opportunities that don't require kids to make athletic shoes (or pass newspapers) to make ends meet.

Of course, U.S.A. currently wants to bring all manufacturing back home, which is not going to help 3rd world economic development.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

because those clothes are fabricated by poor children and women in india and poor asian countries where the producers pay 5 dollars per month to their workers (slaves) without caring about their health and nothing

I don't think that this would be in the area where God thinks of as sin. For the born again Christian, sin is no longer an issue with God because all his or her sins are placed on the cross with Jesus and He has paid the full price for past, present and future sin. This means that the believer has became a totally new creation in Christ. This means that we are much more than forgiven sinners. We are children of God, totally right with God having been clothed with the righteousness of Christ. If you are still seeing yourself in the context of your sins, then you still need a correct understanding of the gospel of Christ. The problem is that many churches preach sin consciousness and in doing so are preaching another Jesus and another gospel and not the true one. This means that believers are held prisoner by legalistic teaching which blasphemes the blood of Christ and presents Jesus as an incomplete Saviour. Those who teach legalism will have the horrible shock of Jesus telling that that He never knew them and to depart from Him.

Now, in terms of your question, it is a matter for your own conscience. If you feel that buying cheap clothes made by exploited people, then you have the freedom not to buy them. Whether you do not not, does not affect your standing with Christ in the least; but what does affect your faith in your standing with Christ is your sin consciousness.

 

[Tutorman]

i don't live in usa

Than don't judge something you know nothing about

 

[Lazarus Short]

I get around that by buying most of my clothes at thrift stores, thus thumbing my nose at greedy retailers. For the same reason, I bailed out of the Apple/Mac world, bought a used PC and a friend loaded it with free Ubuntu - total cost: $45, and I could not be happier.

 

[DamianWarS]

some usa posters say "we can obtain clothes made by slaves but they cannot watch our hollywood movies for free"
i don't mean to offend nobody but this is what i feel
i don't live in usa

is this all to justify pirating movies?

 

[want-love]

is this all to justify pirating movies?

i don't think so, but it's like to steal from thieves exploiters

 

[joshua 1 9]

because those clothes are fabricated by poor children and women in india and poor asian countries where the producers pay 5 dollars per month to their workers (slaves) without caring about their health and nothing

People get out what they put in. Even the Hindus believe in Karma and that the laws of the Universe will repay the just and the unjust alike. God uses the unjust to gather wealth so they can turn it over to the just and those who are well pleasing in the sight of God. God watches over and takes care of people.

Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air: They do not sow or reap or gather into barns--and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

 

[want-love]

 

[joshua 1 9]

some usa posters say "we can obtain clothes made by slaves but they cannot watch our hollywood movies for free"
i don't mean to offend nobody but this is what i feel
i don't live in usa

They pirate our movies and watch them for free. Often the quality is not good. They may go into a movie theater and use their cell phone to make a copy of the movie. When I was in Hong Kong you could buy a game disk with 50 games on it. So they pirate that stuff also.

The factorys in china make 20% more then what is ordered so that they can maintain quality control. You can go out on the streets and by a lot of name brand stuff there for a very low price.