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Featured If you are Israel

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by shilohsfoal, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    When Moses and Elijah appeared to some of the disciples on the Mt. of Transfiguration, where did they come from - another part of the earth?

    They might have come from a place called paradise, but it was not from another place on the earth.

    When John heard the voice that sounded like a trumpet - come up hither - was he taken to another place upon the earth - or heaven?

    When the two witnesses rise after coming back to life in Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

    1Thessalonians4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    If a person used your logic, raptured Christians, would forever be with the Lord in the space called the air - because it doesn't say anything about descending right back down to earth in that verse nor adjoining verses.

    Keras, you are sealing your own destiny when speak so vehemently against raptured Chrisitans going to heaven - calling it rubbish.
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I agree with the rationale. I would say that the 144,000 are sealed because they will have become Christians before great tribulation begins, and are here on earth when the they are sealed.

    Then the great tribulation begins.

    The multitude in Revelation 7 are the souls of them from the nations who are martyred during the great tribulation.
     
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture uses "Hebrews" and "Israel" interchangeably. = Abraham's seed (Hebrews) became Israel.

    Now there was no smith found throughout all the land of Israel: for the Philistines said, Lest the Hebrews make them swords or spears:” (1 Samuel 13:19)

    Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;” (Philippians 3:5)

    And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God.” (Exodus 3:18)

    Now there was no smith found throughout all the land of Israel: for the Philistines said, Lest the Hebrews make them swords or spears:” (1 Samuel 13:19)

    Then said the princes of the Philistines, What do these Hebrews here? And Achish said unto the princes of the Philistines, Is not this David, the servant of Saul the king of Israel, which hath been with me these days, or these years, and I have found no fault in him since he fell unto me unto this day?” (1 Samuel 29:3)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  4. Justasurvivor

    Justasurvivor Member

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    I have a strong potential to be in one of the Israelite tribes but I don't think it's something to boast about, even then I still heavily doubt I'll be one of the sealed even if I'm of Israelite decent
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  5. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    The early church writers, commonly called "fathers" Taught that the 144,000 were Chritisan virgins, or at least Tertullian did.
     
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  6. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    I think the 144,000 are of Jewish descent. I will be clear about that.

    First there are the Jews in Christ. Then there is the great multitude of Gentiles in Christ. That is the whole point: that Jews and Gentiles alike can be saved. In fact if you take the idealistic camp, you can stop right there: John saw Jews and Gentiles alike in Heaven. End of story.

    However, nowhere in all of this is there any indicator of anything political. Jews coming to know Christ has absolutely nothing to do with establishing some manmade principality named "Israel," ruled only by Jews (let alone Jews who do NOT know Christ). I think Jesus made that very clear during the First Coming.
     
  7. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Have you asked the people that YOU BELIEVE ARE ISRAEL to verify which tribe they are from before you will take their word for it, or do the people YOU BELIEVE ARE ISRAEL get a pass?
     
  8. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The Israelite apostles of the Jewish Messiah say I am a Jew (Rom 2:27-29), say I am "Abraham's seed" (Rom 4:16/Gal 3:29), say I am "the peculiar people, royal priesthood, holy nation" (1 Pet 2:9-10), say I am the circumcision-less Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16), say I am "no longer a stranger but a fellow citizen of the commonwealth" (Eph 2:19), say I was once not a people but now am the people of God (1 Pet 2:10) and say I am the circumcision (Phil 3:2-3). Each and every one of these statements takes a key identifier/distinctive of Israel and labels me with it. Meanwhile, Christ calls the disobedient genetic sons of Abraham the "sons of satan" and the "synagogue of satan" (Rev 2:9/John 8:39-47), and St. John says that those who deny the Son have no claim whatsoever to the Father (1 Jn 2:23)
     
  9. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    The New Testament tribes don't even match the Old Testament tribes.
     
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  10. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    God's Sovereign Choice
    (Genesis 25:19-28; Malachi 1:1-5)

    6It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.7Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”a 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise (Jesus) who are regarded as offspring.

    One "tribe" ... those saved in Jesus.

    There are many verses in the bible that are metaphorical ... likewise some associate as being God's Israel using the term metaphorically and I don't see the wrong in that. I mean Paul did it (used metaphors) people (especially the Jews) to understand it wasn't about their physical inherited bloodline through Abraham ... because they were physically born of a Jew ... that being we all are the same through Christ and are His children without distinction.

    Romans 2:29

    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    God Bless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  11. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Psalms 27:5 For in the time of trouble (See Jeremiah 30)
    He shall hide me in His pavilion;
    In the secret place of His tabernacle
    He shall hide me;
    He shall set me high upon a rock.

    John 14:2-3 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

    Isaiah 26:19-21 Your dead will live;
    Their corpses will rise.
    You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy,
    For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
    And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
    20 Come, my people, enter into your rooms
    And close your doors behind you;

    Hide for a little while
    Until indignation runs its course.
    21 For behold, the Lord is about to come out from His place
    To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
    And the earth will reveal her bloodshed
    And will no longer cover her slain.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.
     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Yes they do. Joseph was the father of Manassah and Ephraim. Jacob adopted them as sons (Genesis 48:5). When Joseph is broken into Manassah and Ephraim, there then becomes 13 tribes from which one can select the 12 names. In Revelation, Dan is left out. Joseph and Mannassah are mentioned. One can use Joseph alone, or Joseph and Mannassah, or Joseph and Ephraim, or Mannassah and Ephraim. All it takes is a little study. How much some miss when they don't study the OT.
     
  13. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    All it takes is you list out the 12 tribes in Numbers, and list them side-by-side with Revelation. They don't match. Anything you study or say beyond that are just efforts to explain why that is, but the fact remains they don't match.
     
  14. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    What, for example?
     
  15. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    We are in the age of Grace. There is no Jew or Gentile. We are all one. Only saved by the blood of our Messiah.

    After the Rapture, there will be the 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe and those that are saved after the rapture... At the end only the 144,000 and a handful of others who have not been beheaded or killed or died, that are believers that will populate the earth for the millennial reign of Christ.
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    And in your scenario above, the glorified Christ sits on his throne in the Jerusalem temple for this millennial reign, and requires all humans to travel there to see him, all males be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at his feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by him, nullifying his “once for all” sacrifice of himself on the cross, rendering his sacrifice wholly ineffectual from that point forward.

    Yeah... nope.
     
  17. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    "In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."
    "Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise."

    Are we talking FLESH or spirit? We really need to think. If we take ALL the Jewish people.. yeah.. dont even come close.. would be a spec compared to the stars. Yet what did God tell Abraham about his seed? If he could count the stars he would know how many children. Need to look at this through the eyes of a GOD
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I am quite confident in the knowledge of my destiny. It will be in the holy Land, not heaven; as all the prophets tell us.
    I call the 'rapture' rubbish and a Satanic lie, because that is what it is.
    Jesus refutes it: John 3:13
     
  19. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Folks seem to always avoid the rest of what Paul said.. there is neither male or female. I dare any male who is going to take this all literally to walk in and use the women’s lavatory at their fellowship this next week while the ladies are also using it, with the excuse that there is neither Jew/Gentile male/female. The Jew / Gentile thing is in a spiritual sense only within the Body of Messiah, not in the physical realm.
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Correct... while male and female exist in the physical realm, they do not have any "positional" difference spiritually in God's eyes. This of course also applies to Jew/Gentile. There is no difference positionally, covenantally, or spiritually in Gods eyes today.
     
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