If we are to follow science....

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BNR32FAN

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Why not four masks and twenty feet? Common sense says that would be better.

Probably for the same reason that semis are not rated to only carry 1,500 lbs, because it would be a ridiculously stupid idea.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You meant "you're" I think.
And you're equating cross-contaminated , re-used masks with a fresh, clean kleenex. That's a fail.
And your "contaminated surface" spread has already been debunked by the W.H.O.

Just a minute ago it was ok to re-use your elbow to cough in. And where was this evidence of contaminated surfaces debunked? I haven’t seen any evidence of that.
 
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Hammster

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Probably for the same reason that semis are not rated to only carry 1,500 lbs, because it would be a ridiculously stupid idea.
Why is it ridiculous and stupid?
 
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isaiah4318

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Not when hands come in contact with it and move it to eyes or mouth/nose
True, scratch what I said, anything can spread through eyes, nose, mouth contact which is why you don't want to re-use masks because they are always cross-contaminated.
As I stated earlier, the general public is NOT healthcare workers who dispose of their masks after each use. Re-using a mask is like re-using a handkerchief only worse, it has other people's germs on it not just yours.
 
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Hammster

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True, scratch what I said, anything can spread through eyes, nose, mouth contact which is why you don't want to re-use masks because they are always cross-contaminated.
As I stated earlier, the general public is NOT healthcare workers who dispose of their masks after each use. Re-using a mask is like re-using a handkerchief only worse, it has other people's germs on it not just yours.
Disposing like this? :)

AB3AF8AD-D59C-4F4F-9A97-86D2EBC47C58.jpeg
 
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The Barbarian

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Do you even read your own articles?

Yep.

After spending a lot of time reading that opinionated NON-SCIENCE.

It's in the scientific literature. By scientists. Guess how we know you aren't a scientist?

From one of the cites:
facemasks worn by infected persons are potentially an effective means of limiting the spread of influenz
"

And this:
Surgical masks worn by patients reduce aerosols shedding of virus.

And this:

In a study by Milton et al. [24], they have investigated the effects of using surgical masks in preventing the aerosols influenza transmission. The obtained results indicated that surgical masks had prevented the viral detection aerosols by 25-fold for the coarse aerosols, and 2.5-fold for the fine particles, hence, generally 3.4-fold reduction was reported for the exhaled aerosols.

Which means that masks can be useful in limiting spread of viruses. As experience has shown to be true. Would you like me to show you again? O.K.
States with lowest infection rates:
Hawaii 316
Vermont 333
Alaska 411
Oregon 544
Only Alaska lacks a mask mandate, among these.
...
Not so good states:
Tennessee 114,539
Utah 116,794
Rhode Island 120, 124
South Dakota 128,160
North Dakota 131,691
All these states except Rhode Island lack mask mandates.

Not just experimental evidence, but confirmation in a real epidemic.

Sorry dude, not science.

That's how science works dude. That's how we know you aren't a real scientist. You don't have a clue about the way it works.
 
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The Barbarian

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Philippines Coral Reef Covered With Face Masks – NewsWars

Ah, some foreign country disposes of masks improperly, so you think that's proof that they don't work. No wonder you're confused.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yeah that’s because they throw all their trash in the ocean. I’ve seen it first hand in Cebu it’s disgusting how much trash is floating on the coast. NOTICE that you don’t see this problem in America where people don’t throw their trash in the ocean. Masks aren’t the only thing to worry about in the trash. Cups, paper wrapping (like the ones typically on Burger’s, sandwiches, etc), straws, cigarette butts, or anything else that comes in contact with a person’s nose or mouth are just as dangerous. So basically all fast food garbage should be placed in biohazard bins but it’s not. So people have to take extra precautions when handling garbage especially garbage from the general public. So masks make up a very small percentage of hazardous garbage.
 
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hislegacy

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Yep.



It's in the scientific literature. By scientists. Guess how we know you aren't a scientist?

From one of the cites:
facemasks worn by infected persons are potentially an effective means of limiting the spread of influenz
"

And this:
Surgical masks worn by patients reduce aerosols shedding of virus.

And this:

In a study by Milton et al. [24], they have investigated the effects of using surgical masks in preventing the aerosols influenza transmission. The obtained results indicated that surgical masks had prevented the viral detection aerosols by 25-fold for the coarse aerosols, and 2.5-fold for the fine particles, hence, generally 3.4-fold reduction was reported for the exhaled aerosols.

Which means that masks can be useful in limiting spread of viruses. As experience has shown to be true. Would you like me to show you again? O.K.
States with lowest infection rates:
Hawaii 316
Vermont 333
Alaska 411
Oregon 544
Only Alaska lacks a mask mandate, among these.
...
Not so good states:
Tennessee 114,539
Utah 116,794
Rhode Island 120, 124
South Dakota 128,160
North Dakota 131,691
All these states except Rhode Island lack mask mandates.

Not just experimental evidence, but confirmation in a real epidemic.



That's how science works dude. That's how we know you aren't a real scientist. You don't have a clue about the way it works.

Guess what?? You are not a scientist either.

Links to the statements? Care to include them.
 
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The Barbarian

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Nope. As you know, the research is meticulously cherry-picked to support that conclusion.

Sorry, that excuse won't work for you. I've linked you to numerous collections of research and now all you have left is denial. We all get it. Your assumptions are refuted by not just a few research findings, but by many, many findings. This is why people who actually know what they are talking about, like Dr. Fauci, changed their opinion after the research was done.

Each time you reiterate this, I will point that out.
 
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The Barbarian

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Guess what?? You are not a scientist either.

My thesis committee thought I was. My bachelor's degree is in microbiology. My Master's is in Systems, associated with biological interactions.

Links to the statements? Care to include them.

Already did. More here...
Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 - PubMed

This study provides evidence from a natural experiment on the effects of state government mandates for face mask use in public issued by fifteen states plus Washington, D.C., between April 8 and May 15, 2020. The research design is an event study examining changes in the daily county-level COVID-19 growth rates between March 31 and May 22, 2020. Mandating face mask use in public is associated with a decline in the daily COVID-19 growth rate by 0.9, 1.1, 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 percentage points in 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, and 21 or more days after state face mask orders were signed, respectively. Estimates suggest that as a result of the implementation of these mandates, more than 200,000 COVID-19 cases were averted by May 22, 2020.
Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US - PubMed

A total of 19 randomised controlled trials were included in this study - 8 in community settings, 6 in healthcare settings and 5 as source control. Most of these randomised controlled trials used different interventions and outcome measures. In the community, masks appeared to be effective with and without hand hygiene, and both together are more protective.
A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible viruses for the community, healthcare workers and sick patients - PubMed

The filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators; however, cloth masks may provide some protection if well designed and used correctly. Multilayer cloth masks, designed to fit around the face and made of water-resistant fabric with a high number of threads and finer weave, may provide reasonable protection.
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 - PubMed

A quick survey of the literature turned up 898 hits like these. Try to find a way to accommodate to the reality.



 
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probinson

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Wait a minute so what your saying is that if you cover your cough it will prevent phlegm from flying out of your mouth and contaminating a surface? Because that’s exactly what masks do.
Or... you could just cover your mouth when you sneeze. Revolutionary idea!
 
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The Barbarian

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Behold the basis for your PubMed evidence -> "expert opinion."

Knowing what one is talking about matters. That is true. But notice that it's about the data, not the opinion. (The data are the numbers regarding how effectively the masks filtered out virus particles)

Your other ones use "research explanations" which are merely subjective and a dime a dozen. All worthless when it comes to real science which by definition "is observable".

Sorry, go to the links and learn about it. Your just tossing around words you don't understand.

Those aren't clinical trials.

Testing the effectiveness of a mask in filtering out virus particles isn't a "clinical trial." Couldn't be. Just so we know you know what you're talking about, how about telling us what you think a "clinical trial" is?

Do you know what a double blind one is?

Again, measuring the filtration efficiency of a mask would not involve assigning a human subject to one or more interventions. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you?

How would you like to receive a vaccine based on "expert opinion" instead of clinical trials evidence?

You would want one based on the expertise of the people analyzing the data. Just like the mask research. The only difference is, you don't find the vaccine data and opinions politically incorrect, as you have found the mask data and opinions.

"Not political"? Prove that one! Do you know that their politics are?

Don't care. It's about the data. And as you see, numerous research investigations show that masks do filter out virus particles. Can they get all of it? No, just a significant amount of it. Does wearing a mask guarantee that the wearer will not infect someone else? No, it just reduces the likelihood that it will happen.

If you find that a reason to avoid masks, the same argument could be applied to seat belts. Except of course, you don't think that seat belts are politically incorrect.

Will data and reason sway our political stand against effective mask?

I doubt it.
 
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probinson

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Its an added safety precaution. Kind of like pressurized tank ratings are typically only half of what they can actually withstand. You’ll see this on anything that has a weight rating as well. It’s really not hard to see why these measures are implemented if you just try to think about it.
But it's not supported by any science, and masking and social distancing, both of which are not supported by any real science, are largely why schools are closed. The logistics of keeping students 6 feet apart is impossible in some schools. But 3.2 feet is the recommendation from the WHO.

That's one very big reason why this is so critical. Non-scientific measures are being used as justification for continued harm to our children.
 
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probinson

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My thesis committee thought I was. My bachelor's degree is in microbiology. My Master's is in Systems, associated with biological interactions.

That might be the scariest thing I've read all day.
 
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The Barbarian

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Or... you could just cover your mouth when you sneeze.

No. Turns out, for example that you shed aerosols and droplets in normal breathing. And covering your face with a hand when you cough or sneeze, won't work. That's why they say to cough into a sleeve or a handkerchief. If you were to hold a reasonably dense cloth over your mouth every time you exhaled, that would work.

But then you'd just be using a mask minus the straps to hold it on.

Rock and a hard place.
 
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The Barbarian

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But it's not supported by any science

You've already been shown the science. No point in denial.

My thesis committee thought I was. My bachelor's degree is in microbiology. My Master's is in Systems, associated with biological interactions.

That might be the scariest thing I've read all day.

Mask deniers regard science the way a vampire regards a crucifix. We got that.
 
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probinson

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Sorry, that excuse won't work for you.
Not an excuse. Since you apparently are a scientist, please, re-run the same "studies" you posit are the gospel truth on masking, but examine the time period from October-December 2020 instead of March-May 2020. We'll wait while you compile the results....

I've linked you to numerous collections of research and now all you have left is denial.
I've linked you to countless sets of data that you've completely ignored. The denial is real.

We all get it. Your assumptions are refuted by not just a few research findings, but by many, many findings. This is why people who actually know what they are talking about, like Dr. Fauci, changed their opinion after the research was done.

Dr. Fauci has proven himself to be nothing more than a bureaucrat that shifts his opinions wherever the political winds are blowing at the moment.

I am amazed that you believe that all scientific evidence regarding masking up until the pandemic was wrong. It has been common knowledge for quite some time that a medical grade surgical mask does not provide any protection from viral transmission, much less a piece of cloth over your face and nose. Manufacturers of masks actually include this disclaimer on their box.
 
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