if we are sons of God, are we gods too?

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Yes? And? Does this verse say "That we might be made God Himself"? Nope.



Why do you insert "same nature"? That's not what the verse says. A surprising addition from one who was cautioning me about adding or taking away from Scripture. Being like Christ is not sharing in the divine essence or nature. We may be seek to be like him in our conduct, but doing so does not mean we are, therefore, deities.



No, same behaviour.



The "seed" is the Holy Spirit who gives us a second, spiritual birth by which we are "made alive unto God." The Holy Spirit does not makes us into gods, however, for there is only One Triune God beside whom there is no other god. He empowers and transforms us, but we remain created beings, prone to sin, finite, ignorant and imperfect.



This isn't speaking of nature but of attitude and behaviour.



This is a commandment to follow, not a declaration of our divinity!



This verse says nothing about Cain being of the devil's nature. It says he did evil, but it says nothing at all about his nature. You are reading into the verse what it doesn't say.

In all of the rest of the verses and passages where you do this "same nature/devil's nature" stuff you're guilty of the very same things as I've pointed out above.



God divided the sea for Moses. It was not something Moses himself did.



False doctrine. Plain and simple. You are not one of the Twelve to whom Jesus spoke the words above, charged with the establishment of the Early Church. And I have yet to see a believer do anything even remotely as incredible as commanding a mountain to fall into the sea - even ones like you who make outrageous claims to supernatural power. That's because Mark 11:23 doesn't apply to any but those to whom Christ was speaking.



He created us; He did not "father" us. Like does not beget like in this instance because we are not God's physical progeny but His creations. And just like a painting an artist paints is his creation, not his actual progeny, we are creations, not the progeny of God. This is very obvious and simple reasoning...



No, Jesus was not kidding. He meant what he said. How is his command accomplished? By the atoning work of Christ at Calvary, the spiritual regeneration and empowering work of the Holy Spirit, and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us. Don't you know this?



A better translation of this verse - and a much more common translation - is as follows:

1 Corinthians 2:6
6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.


The NKJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, NRSV, ISV, etc. all use "mature" instead of "perfect." Changes your question, I think, quite a bit.



You don't possess God's nature. You simply don't. God's Spirit within you (if you are one of His) possesses God's essential nature, but you are intractably human. You can act like God in some superficial respects, but this no more makes you God than a monkey acting like a human makes the monkey a human. Similarity does not equate to identicality.



Adam was created innocent. He had no moral sense, no sense of good and evil. He only obtained this sense when he disobeyed God and ate of the Forbidden Fruit. And the fact that Adam was created separates his human nature eternally and fundamentally from God's nature. Surely, this is stating the obvious...



This is false. Coming from God, being one of His creations, does not make you of the same "species" as God. You are not a little god; you are a little human. You had a beginning; God did not; you depend upon God for your existence; God depends upon nothing for His existence; God is perfect; you sin every day. Very clearly, you are NOT of the same "species" as God.



This is silly. Omniscience is a fundamental aspect of God's nature; it is part of what makes God, God. If He were not omniscient, God would not be God. This is basic Christian theology. To assert on one hand that you are the same as God and then admit on the other that you don't share in His essential nature is to speak nonsense. You can't be both God and not-God at the same time! Why don't you understand such a basic rule of logic?



This verse does not say you possess God's nature. It says you may be like God but it doesn't say you will be identical to Him. To say, though, that you possess God's nature requires that you be just like God in His divine essence. And you aren't. You aren't even close. No one is.



It was very important because Jesus was claiming to speak for God and to be God in the flesh. You make a claim like that, you'd better be able to prove it! And Jesus did. But not to prove he was saved, but that he was the Saviour come from God to redeem mankind.
O ok. Now I get it. You don't know what the word nature means. Here iisa few fefinitions I got from google.

Definition of nature
1
a : the inherent character or basic constitution (see constitution 2) of a person or thing : essence the nature of the controversy
b : disposition, temperament
it was his nature to look after others — F. A. Swinnerton
her romantic nature
2
a : a creative and controlling force in the universe
b : an inner force (such as instinct, appetite, desire) or the sum of such forces in an individual
3
: a kind or class usually distinguished by fundamental or essential characteristics documents of a confidential nature acts of a ceremonial nature
4
: the physical constitution or drives of an organism; especially : an excretory organ or function —used in phrases like the call of nature
5
: a spontaneous attitude (as of generosity) GET IT?
6
: the external world in its entirety
7
a : humankind's original or natural condition
b : a simplified mode of life resembling this condition escape from civilization and get back to nature
8
: the genetically controlled qualities of an organism
nature … modified by nurture — E. G. Conklin
9
: natural scenery enjoyed the beauties of nature
 
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aiki

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Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Are they following you? Do you at least believe in them? It's the difference between a believer and an unbeliever and don't tell me it is not so. I've personally seen and experienced such. It Shall! not maybe, perhaps or if you feel like it.

I've already explained to you that these verses were later additions to Mark. They are not part of the divinely-inspired text of Mark's Gospel. This has been known for a long time now. That you would use these verses to make your case shows a significant lack of knowledge about the Bible.

The Twelve who followed Jesus (sans Judas) did perform many miracles. As the ones who were establishing the Early Church and speaking for God to it, their miraculous acts were vital to establishing their authority and roles as genuine apostles of Christ. None of us today bear any such responsibility, nor stand in the role of apostle, nor hold the authority of the apostolic office. There is, then, no need for handling venomous snakes, or drinking poison, or miraculously healing every Tom, Dick and Harry one comes across in the street.

I wrote:

"Does one become the thing of which one partakes? I eat steak. Am I, therefore, a cow? Partaking of God's divine nature is not the same as being God."

You replied:

"I guess in one sense there is a truth to it. You are what you eat. You eat junk you become unhealthy. If you eat healthy you become healthier (generally). But I think this verse have a bigger realization of this principal. It refers to life and godliness which we become part of this Divine nature. Are you a sophist or what? How come I must spell everything out to you?"

Whatever semantical game you wish to play, I do not become a cow when I partake of a steak and I do not become God when I partake of His divine nature. Neither do you.

No, I am not a sophist. But as I read your posts I suspect you might be.

If God tells me to, yes. Like Moses. The sea had to listen to him. And once again, I've seen it done so I know it's true. Even Jesus said...

John 5:30 (KJV)
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

A cop out. And, as far as I'm concerned, an admission that you know you aren't divine in your nature.

I wrote:

"A blood relation to God the Father who is a Spirit? Very amusing! Feel free to explain this one for me!"

You wrote:

"The only relationship we have with God is through the Blood. But not for all. Only His children. See, Blood relation. Get it?"

Having a relationship with God through the shed blood of Christ is not the same as being a "blood relation" (in the normal sense of the phrase). Your pun here does nothing but cloud further your already murky ideas.

That's pretty carnal. They are not my enemy. Maybe you should ask what I mean by that firstly.

ISIS isn't your enemy? Are you saying you don't oppose their violent overthrow of the Syrian nation? Are you saying you don't oppose their murder of innocent civilians, and rape of little girls and women? I hope not. Such evil men ought to be regarded as the enemy by every right-thinking person.

Maybe instead of me having to ask what you mean you do a better job of explaining yourself.

1 John 4 (KJV)
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So what does this Scripture actually say? That if you believe that Jesus Christ lived in flesh on earth that you are of God? Then why are we arguing? We are both of God then.

No, it does not say he that confesseth that Jesus Christ have come in the flesh but rather Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Present tense. What flesh? My flesh and my brother's flesh and my sister's flesh. Which you obviously deny by what you are saying.

The phrase "is come" expresses an accomplished fact. For example, I might say, "The deed is done," or "The dog is dead," to describe things that have already happened. In the same way, John writes, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." John means to say that Jesus's incarnation is an accomplished fact, not that Jesus is coming in the flesh right now. If John was wanting to express what you are trying to assert that he was, he would have written, "Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh." Your idea about what John is saying, then, collapses under an examination of simple, basic grammar.
 
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aiki

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aiki. what do you get accepting there is a god in every human? nothing! your life wont change knowing a detail in the bible

This "detail in the Bible" is a lie if you twist it to mean we are gods. And what do you get when you accept a lie? The same thing you get when you accept any lie: deceived. It is simply false that believers are gods. And it is doubly false to say that every person, saved or not, has a god within them. If I say that 1+1=3 instead of 2, I could argue that the difference between the right answer and the wrong one is very small and so no one should fuss about it. But would you accept your bank thinking this way? Or the clerk at the till adding up your purchases? Or, say, a carpenter you want to build your house? Would it be all right if they used even slightly faulty addition in handling your money, or to tally up your bill, or build your house? Of course not. How much more important it is, then, to avoid falsehood in dealing with God's eternal, spiritual truth! A small deviation from His truth can have enormous consequences! And so I refuse to accept this "little lie" that we are all gods. As far as I'm concerned, this is an enormous and highly blasphemous lie.
 
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aiki

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O ok. Now I get it. You don't know what the word nature means. Here iisa few fefinitions I got from google.

Definition of nature
1
a : the inherent character or basic constitution (see constitution 2) of a person or thing : essence the nature of the controversy
b : disposition, temperament
it was his nature to look after others — F. A. Swinnerton
her romantic nature
2
a : a creative and controlling force in the universe
b : an inner force (such as instinct, appetite, desire) or the sum of such forces in an individual
3
: a kind or class usually distinguished by fundamental or essential characteristics documents of a confidential nature acts of a ceremonial nature
4
: the physical constitution or drives of an organism; especially : an excretory organ or function —used in phrases like the call of nature
5
: a spontaneous attitude (as of generosity) GET IT?
6
: the external world in its entirety
7
a : humankind's original or natural condition
b : a simplified mode of life resembling this condition escape from civilization and get back to nature
8
: the genetically controlled qualities of an organism
nature … modified by nurture — E. G. Conklin
9
: natural scenery enjoyed the beauties of nature

I have all along been operating from the first and chief definition of "nature" that your Googled definition above lays out:

1
a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence...


Everything that I have written in my past few posts has been anchored to this meaning of the word "nature."
 
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want-love

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This "detail in the Bible" is a lie is an enormous and highly blasphemous lie.
maybe you are the ones who called jesus a blasphemous. when they called him blasphemous he said why? isnt written in the law ye are gods?
and you twist this saying no that means rulers and judges
 
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Small Fish

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I have all along been operating from the first and chief definition of "nature" that your Googled definition above lays out:

1
a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence...


Everything that I have written in my past few posts has been anchored to this meaning of the word "nature."
Ok, let's agree to disagree. Seeing you are unable to grasp this very basic Scriptural principal of dying to you own nature and then receiving God's nature letting Him express Himself through your flesh, let me ask you this question; When do you believe you have the Holy Ghost? When you believe or after you believe, believing unto the Holy Ghost and how do you know when you have it?
 
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Small Fish

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I have all along been operating from the first and chief definition of "nature" that your Googled definition above lays out:

1
a : the inherent character or basic constitution of a person or thing : essence...


Everything that I have written in my past few posts has been anchored to this meaning of the word "nature."

John 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


So, All that was in the Father was poured into Christ and all that was in Christ is poured into the True Church
 
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aiki

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maybe you are the ones who called jesus a blasphemous. when they called him blasphemous he said why? isnt written in the law ye are gods?
and you twist this saying no that means rulers and judges

Have I called Jesus blasphemous? Where? He is the God-Man, the Messiah, God in-the-flesh. But you and I are not as he is.

How have I twisted the verse in Psalms 82? I have understood the verse in its context, allowing the surrounding verses to qualify and clarify what the verse about "gods" really means. Where is the twisting you say I've done?
 
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aiki

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Ok, let's agree to disagree. Seeing you are unable to grasp this very basic Scriptural principal of dying to you own nature and then receiving God's nature letting Him express Himself through your flesh, let me ask you this question; When do you believe you have the Holy Ghost? When you believe or after you believe, believing unto the Holy Ghost and how do you know when you have it?

It isn't that I don't understand dying to Self, to my carnal nature, to the "old man" (Ro. 6:6), but that I don't agree with your frequent mishandling of Scripture, your poor reasoning concerning the way God transforms us by His Spirit, and what it means to be a child of God.

I am indwelt by God's Spirit at the moment of my spiritual second birth. It is by the Spirit that I'm made "alive unto God" and born-again.

How do I know I have the Holy Spirit?

1. Because the Bible says so. (Ps. 119:160; 1 Jn. 5:11-13; Ro. 10:17)
2. By a new sensitivity toward sin. (Jn. 16:8)
3. By a love for the brethren. (1 Jn. 3:14)
4. By the inner witness of the Spirit. (Ro. 8:16)
5. By a hunger for the word of God. (Jer. 15:16; Ps. 19:8-11)
6. By the development of the Fruit of the Spirit. (Ga. 5:22, 23)
7. By a deep and abiding love for God. (Matt. 22:36-38; 1 Jn. 4:15-19)
 
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want-love

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How have I twisted the verse in Psalms 82? I have understood the verse in its context
the context is that they are saying jesus was a blaphemous, that's the context right? and jesus make them clear that to be a god isn't something they can't understand, the didn't read already, it's something they shouldn't deny because there is a god in every human. we are not saying we are equal gods as jesus, he is god himself, we are saying we are inferior gods
 
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Dkh587

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the context is that they are saying jesus was a blaphemous, that's the context right? and jesus make them clear that to be a god isn't something they can't understand, the didn't read already, it's something they shouldn't deny because there is a god in every human. we are not saying we are equal gods as jesus, he is god himself, we are saying we are inferior gods
Believers will technically become gods/elohim, by taking on the divine nature of Messiah, who also has the divine nature. We will be divine like God. We do not have divine bodies yet. When the Messiah comes back, His followers will attain immortal bodies and become divine.
 
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Small Fish

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It isn't that I don't understand dying to Self, to my carnal nature, to the "old man" (Ro. 6:6), but that I don't agree with your frequent mishandling of Scripture, your poor reasoning concerning the way God transforms us by His Spirit, and what it means to be a child of God.

I am indwelt by God's Spirit at the moment of my spiritual second birth. It is by the Spirit that I'm made "alive unto God" and born-again.

How do I know I have the Holy Spirit?

1. Because the Bible says so. (Ps. 119:160; 1 Jn. 5:11-13; Ro. 10:17)
2. By a new sensitivity toward sin. (Jn. 16:8)
3. By a love for the brethren. (1 Jn. 3:14)
4. By the inner witness of the Spirit. (Ro. 8:16)
5. By a hunger for the word of God. (Jer. 15:16; Ps. 19:8-11)
6. By the development of the Fruit of the Spirit. (Ga. 5:22, 23)
7. By a deep and abiding love for God. (Matt. 22:36-38; 1 Jn. 4:15-19)
Like I said, you're understanding of the new birth is not up to scratch. I advise you to reconsider your doctrinal shortcoming. You're either like Him or you are lost. You either become the Word for your day or you are fighting the Word for your day. And the Word is God. The Promise is God.

In my experience over the years I've notice you get two kind of Christians. The confessors and denyer. The confesser recognize and admid that though he is not worthy God gave him His nature and you see signs and miracles following the believer.

The denyer fights the true believer probably also realising he is not worthy but cannot bring the right sacrifice and do not have the power of God to back him up. Like Cain, both are worshippers.

This is the type the Scripture refers when it says they have a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. They don't realize that it is not us that do it but the Working of God. Do you know you can blaspheme the Holy Ghost by speaking against God's children? And the Holy Ghost is God.

And is it not strange that this was the very reason they crucified Jesus. They said He blasphemed because Him being a man (that was all they could see) made Himself God. But now it's our turn.

John 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


So, All that was in the Father was poured into Christ and all that was in Christ is poured into the True Church

Now His Bride is His beloved in Whom He is pleased to dwell in. Don't you know that we are the temple of the living God? And that it is not us but the very God acting through us? Like the book of Acts.

Your views cuts God out of your Life. It is what He has done for me. Not that I'm great but Jesus Christ is come in my flesh and aboded in my heart and it would be sin for me to deny that.

I say these things by His authority and I can back it up with Scripture all the way from Genesis to Revelation. This is the very reason God created man, it is God becoming tangible. Things invisible are made known by things visible. As when Jesus declared the Father now the Father expects the same from us.

If you do not live that Word you will not be their, because you only have a religious spirit like Cain and not the Spirit of God.
 
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aiki

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Like I said, you're understanding of the new birth is not up to scratch. I advise you to reconsider your doctrinal shortcoming.

You have yet to show that I have any.

You're either like Him or you are lost. You either become the Word for your day or you are fighting the Word for your day. And the Word is God. The Promise is God.

This is basically sound-byte nonsense. See my last few posts.

In my experience over the years I've notice you get two kind of Christians. The confessors and denyer. The confesser recognize and admid that though he is not worthy God gave him His nature and you see signs and miracles following the believer.

In my experience over the many years I've been a disciple of Christ, I have seen "Christians" who pursue a sensual faith that seeks after signs, after hyper-emotional moments, after tingles, and shivers, and senseless babbling, and miracles. They have forgotten that "an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39) They don't realize that when their faith becomes sensual in this way it also becomes earthly and demonic, too. (Ja. 3:15) These Christians are ripe for false doctrine, believing they understand God's truth when they are in fact woefully ignorant of it. These are the ones who take the view of eastern mystic religions and proclaim themselves little gods. These are the ones who allow pantheism and New Age thinking to infiltrate their doctrine and twist Scripture without even knowing it. Their signs and wonders are shams; their experiences of the Spirit parallel demonic possession; and they think fog machines and glitter are acts of God. Of these sort Scripture says:

Hebrews 5:12
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Philippians 3:18-19 (NKJV)
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame--who set their mind on earthly things.


Your views cuts God out of your Life.

Baloney. I doubt you really even understand my view.

Not that I'm great but Jesus Christ is come in my flesh and aboded in my heart and it would be sin for me to deny that.

No one's asking you to deny this. I'm certainly not. But Christ being within you by the Spirit no more makes you God than me being in my apartment makes my apartment human. This is not hard to understand...

I say these things by His authority and I can back it up with Scripture all the way from Genesis to Revelation.

You haven't managed to do so thus far. Simply throwing out verses you think say what you believe is not backing up your views. It is proof-texting which is the classic tactic of the false teacher.

This is the very reason God created man, it is God becoming tangible.

Again, baloney. And blasphemy. God became Man in the person of Christ. The rest of us are just fallible, finite, dependent human beings.

If you do not live that Word you will not be their, because you only have a religious spirit like Cain and not the Spirit of God.

And baloney a third time. Your blasphemous perspective is NOT necessary to salvation or being part of God's family, whatever you may assert.
 
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Small Fish

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You have yet to show that I have any.



This is basically sound-byte nonsense. See my last few posts.



In my experience over the many years I've been a disciple of Christ, I have seen "Christians" who pursue a sensual faith that seeks after signs, after hyper-emotional moments, after tingles, and shivers, and senseless babbling, and miracles. They have forgotten that "an evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign." (Matt. 12:39) They don't realize that when their faith becomes sensual in this way it also becomes earthly and demonic, too. (Ja. 3:15) These Christians are ripe for false doctrine, believing they understand God's truth when they are in fact woefully ignorant of it. These are the ones who take the view of eastern mystic religions and proclaim themselves little gods. These are the ones who allow pantheism and New Age thinking to infiltrate their doctrine and twist Scripture without even knowing it. Their signs and wonders are shams; their experiences of the Spirit parallel demonic possession; and they think fog machines and glitter are acts of God. Of these sort Scripture says:

Hebrews 5:12
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food.


Philippians 3:18-19 (NKJV)
18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame--who set their mind on earthly things.




Baloney. I doubt you really even understand my view.



No one's asking you to deny this. I'm certainly not. But Christ being within you by the Spirit no more makes you God than me being in my apartment makes my apartment human. This is not hard to understand...



You haven't managed to do so thus far. Simply throwing out verses you think say what you believe is not backing up your views. It is proof-texting which is the classic tactic of the false teacher.



Again, baloney. And blasphemy. God became Man in the person of Christ. The rest of us are just fallible, finite, dependent human beings.



And baloney a third time. Your blasphemous perspective is NOT necessary to salvation or being part of God's family, whatever you may assert.
John 14:20
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


So, All that was in the Father was poured into Christ and all that was in Christ is poured into the True Church
 
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paul becke

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Yes we are to become like God. I agree, but we are to be as close to as perfect as possible. I forget, are you in agreement with this guy that we are gods too? What I have been saying is that we are to be as perfect as possible and become like God, and carry God's works through us. But He knows we will fall and and are not perfect which therefore, stands to reason that we aren't gods too. Not even close.

Yes, indeed. We are gods, too, in embryo, and will be fully so in heaven - but then and now, by adoption into the life of the Holy Trinity, as members of the family of God - who is God in his own right, and the source of everything.
 
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Hmmm

The tradition of the Church is that we are to partake in the divine nature. Catholics called this doctrine divinization. Orthodox called this theosis. Wesley had the doctrine of utter sanctification (many believe that this is approachable but not possible on this earth).

Each day of our lives, we believers are more and more BECOMING God, or partaking in the divine Nature. IMHO, this is the doctrine of theosis, the doctrine of sanctifications.
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Of course, justification, whether we are saved, is another matter entirely.
 
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