if we are sons of God, are we gods too?

SeventyOne

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How can we both be begotten of God (John 3) and "adopted" at the same time?

If you are a son of the living God then you are begotten of God from above--NOT ADOPTED!

Scripture calls us as those awaiting our adoption at the resurrection. I'm not going to argue with you about it as it's a done deal.

Only the Jew's are said to be "adopted" in Scripture.

No.

If you wish to "but" heads on this, I'll give you a lesson on personal pronouns!

You can do as you wish, of course, but I doubt I'll be participating.
 
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Noxot

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once again, salvation is a never ending real and living spiritual process of glory to glory

Luke 15:17-23 (YLT)
`And having come to himself, he said, How many hirelings of my father have a superabundance of bread, and I here with hunger am perishing! having risen, I will go on unto my father, and will say to him, Father, I did sin--to the heaven, and before thee, and no more am I worthy to be called thy son; make me as one of thy hirelings. `And having risen, he went unto his own father, and he being yet far distant, his father saw him, and was moved with compassion, and having ran he fell upon his neck and kissed him; and the son said to him, Father, I did sin--to the heaven, and before thee, and no more am I worthy to be called thy son. `And the father said unto his servants, Bring forth the first robe, and clothe him, and give a ring for his hand, and sandals for the feet; and having brought the fatted calf, kill it , and having eaten, we may be merry,

and this brothers jealously is starting to remind me of cain though God puts a stop to it.

Luke 15:24-32 (YLT)
because this my son was dead, and did live again, and he was lost, and was found; and they began to be merry. `And his elder son was in a field, and as, coming, he drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing, and having called near one of the young men, he was inquiring what these things might be, and he said to him--Thy brother is arrived, and thy father did kill the fatted calf, because in health he did receive him back. `And he was angry, and would not go in, therefore his father, having come forth, was entreating him; and he answering said to the father, Lo, so many years I do serve thee, and never thy command did I transgress, and to me thou didst never give a kid, that with my friends I might make merry; but when thy son--this one who did devour thy living with harlots--came, thou didst kill to him the fatted calf. `And he said to him, Child, thou art always with me, and all my things are thine; but to be merry, and to be glad, it was needful, because this thy brother was dead, and did live again, he was lost, and was found.'

Gen 4:1-12 (YLT)
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, `I have gotten a man by Jehovah;' and she addeth to bear his brother, even Abel. And Abel is feeding a flock, and Cain hath been servant of the ground. And it cometh to pass at the end of days that Cain bringeth from the fruit of the ground a present to Jehovah; and Abel, he hath brought, he also, from the female firstlings of his flock, even from their fat ones; and Jehovah looketh unto Abel and unto his present, and unto Cain and unto his present He hath not looked; and it is very displeasing to Cain, and his countenance is fallen. And Jehovah saith unto Cain, `Why hast thou displeasure? and why hath thy countenance fallen? Is there not, if thou dost well, acceptance? and if thou dost not well, at the opening a sin-offering is crouching, and unto thee its desire, and thou rulest over it.' And Cain saith unto Abel his brother, `Let us go into the field;' and it cometh to pass in their being in the field, that Cain riseth up against Abel his brother, and slayeth him. And Jehovah saith unto Cain, `Where is Abel thy brother?' and he saith, `I have not known; my brother's keeper--I?' And He saith, `What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood is crying unto Me from the ground; and now, cursed art thou from the ground, which hath opened her mouth to receive the blood of thy brother from thy hand; when thou tillest the ground, it doth not add to give its strength to thee--a wanderer, even a trembling one, thou art in the earth.'
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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if we are in the body of christ...

What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? <-- this article just say "we are not god because we are not gods" but doesnt offer valid arguments
Great thread.
I recall having a thread on that topic some years back and had to dig for it and found it.
[link courtesy of "Lamblinks]

Gods ye are! John 10

..........*snip*
Are all of those of the Faith of Jesus now "gods".
How do others view this passage in John 10 which quotes from Psalm 82.
What exactly did YHWH and JESUS mean by this. Fascinating verses! God bless
..............................................
 
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dqhall

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if we are in the body of christ...

What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? <-- this article just say "we are not god because we are not gods" but doesn't offer valid arguments
In those days there were many stories about gods. There were male and female gods in various mythological pantheons. Statues showed gods having human bodies. People worshiped the human form statues as if they were gods. Jesus used this scripture about people being gods to try to get out of the blasphemy accusation they were trying to use against him. The Jews claimed to worship the creator of heaven and earth, but most did not recognize Jesus as God's son.

In chapter 9 of the Gospel of John, Jesus healed a man by making mud and rubbing it on his eyes and telling him to go and wash in the pool of Siloam. The man washed in the pool of Siloam and received his sight. The Jews were confused as the one they had known was blind was seeing. They asked him what happened. The blind man told them it was Jesus who had healed him. The Jews told the man it could not have been from God as Jesus broke the Sabbath rules. The healed man told them if Jesus were not of God, he could not have done this miracle and attested that God hears the prayers of the righteous.

Jesus did not declare himself to be God. He gave credit to God for being his father. He said his father was greater than he (John 14:28).
 
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Noxot

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you can only be a god in spirit and in truth (i.e. the Word was sent to you). in hell you can think you are a god all you want but all it does is make you an insane liar. i'm sure satan thinks he is a god too. even the demons that tremble at the notion of God are wiser than that satan.
 
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devin553344

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if we are in the body of christ...

What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? <-- this article just say "we are not god because we are not gods" but doesnt offer valid arguments

I think that is a reference to Adam and Eve taking the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and becoming one of them the Gods:

Genesis {3:22} And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

If we accept God's forgiveness and are deeply thankfully, eternally thankful for being saved then God will always be our God, and there is no other God beside him:

Isaiah {44:8} Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it?] ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any.

There are plenty of passages in the Bible that discuss God being alone as God. For instance, he killeth and maketh alive, etc.

Deuteronomy {32:39} See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my
hand.
 
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Dkh587

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We will become divine like the Messiah when we are resurrected. We will take on the divine nature which is called god/elohim.

There is a divine heavenly family and we become part of it through the Messiah
 
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rockytopva

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If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Whether or not we are considered Gods I know not... But if we are considered Gods we are of very limited powers. I simply do not believe that God the Father will ever entrust any great amount of his E/c2 power to anyone but himself.
 
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aiki

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David I think he is saying he used to think of those men like god's, and how they will all perish cause they would not repent of their wickedness, like him, when he used to think they were like god's, but he's seeing much clearer now, after his repentance... (if that is David speaking...?)...

Asaph is the writer of Psalm 82. He begins the Psalm by writing:

Psalms 82:1-2
1 God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2 How long will you judge unjustly And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.


Asaph is writing of God (vs. 1) and what God says to the unjust and partial rulers ("gods") of Israel (vs. 2). Asaph is not writing merely his opinion.
 
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devin553344

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If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Whether or not we are considered Gods I know not... But if we are considered Gods we are of very limited powers. I simply do not believe that God the Father will ever entrust any great amount of his E/c2 power to anyone but himself.

I agree, God is the only one worthy to command that power. I wouldn't trust myself with his power, or other sinners for that manner, not to call people sinners ;)
 
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disciple1

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if we are in the body of christ...

What does the Bible mean by “you are gods” / "ye are gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34? <-- this article just say "we are not god because we are not gods" but doesnt offer valid arguments
Luke chapter 3 verse 38
38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Your only born of God through love.

1 John chapter 4 verse 7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
 
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aiki

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"Us" in Ephesians 1:5 refers to the people with Paul as he wrote that epistle from his prison cell.

How do you know this? Paul makes no reference in the first five verses of his letter to the Ephesians to people with him in prison. And even if "us" did refer to such people, why can't "us" also refer more broadly to all the Christian believers to whom Paul is writing? What good reason do you have to restrict "us" as you have?

Paul always, in all of his epistles, always refers to the people with him as "we", "us" "ourselves"--NEVER inferring to you, or I.

Well, you make this assertion about Ephesians 1:5, but you offer no good reason why we must always restrict "we" and "us" in Paul's letters as you suggest. Certainly, in English these words may be used to refer to those in the company of the speaker and/or to a distant audience the speaker is addressing.
 
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Fireinfolding

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What if... THEY (sort of like folks today) thought they HEARD in Jesus words to be what they understood the Serpent to be saying in the garden? And that in respects to being like God, or considering it robbery somehow in that equality (trying to pin a serpent on a pole so to speak) as they hear his confession that he is the "Son of" God. Because it was on that same point Jesus shot back that Psalm at them to show them their own reasoning was faulty when it come to the equality they were condemning him (as the Son of God) for. Christ used that particular Psalm (Psalms 82:6) to contradict their reasoning for such a charge against him. (Christ quoting the first part of that Psalm) "Have I not said, YE are gods"? which is expounded to be so on the basis of "the children" of the most High in its context. Whereas they attributed evil (even blaspheme) to his confession for a seeming lack of understanding on this (even there) as it relates to this verse also. Christ uses it to contradict their charge (otherwise it would be useless to quote that verse to them at all). So would it be far fetched to imagine they were (in their own minds) highly suspicious of him being more in tune to what the Serpent said (as they might have understood it) in respects to these things? Christ shooting back the first part of that Psalm was more in relation to themselves in what was considered equal with "the children of the most High" (instead of the one more specifically referencing Christ as God in Psalms 45:7 as Hebrews shows it). He just touching upon the context of their charge of blaspheme against him on the basis of his confession that "I am the Son of God" which they attributed to him as blaspheme. (Edit: Cleaned this up a bit)
 
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Dkh587

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The Sons of God in Psalm 82 are the divine beings called Elohim/gods. They are mentioned in Genesis 6, as well as the book of Job. They are a part of the Most High's divine/heavenly council. And God passed judgement on them because they were corrupting the nations and ruling in unrighteousness, and not showing favor to the poor. They were sentenced to death, like men. All of the sons of God did not rebel - Psalm 82 is in reference to the ones that did, and were sentenced to death.

They are also called the host of heaven

1 Kings 22:18-23 NIV
Micaiah continued, Therefore hear the word of יהוה: I saw יהוה sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left.
And יהוה said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
One suggested this, and another that.
Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before יהוה and said, ‘I will entice him.’
 ‘By what means?’ יהוה asked.
‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
‘You will succeed in enticing him’, said יהוה. ‘Go and do it’.
So now יהוה has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. יהוה has decreed disaster for you.

Remember, they are called elohim/gods. They are divine, but they are NOT the Most High God, the Father. They are his sons.

With that in mind, It doesn't make sense to tell a man "you are elohim, but you will die like a man". All men die. But the other lesser gods/elohim were already immortal, but they lost their immortality and were sentenced to death.

There is only 1 true God, the Most High יהוה - He has many sons(in the heavens) which are divine and are called gods/elohim, but out of all of His sons, He only has 1 begotten son, Yahushua the Messiah.
 
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paul becke

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The deepest truths, even in modern physics, are paradoxical, and just keep proliferating ; all the more so, unsurprisingly, are they, therefore, in matters of the spirit. In Christianity we call such paradoxes, repugnant to reason, 'mysteries'. (If they were untrue, they would simply be 'oxymorons'). Surely, we are here trying to understand one of the most profound mysteries, the Most Holy Trinity, itself, being the greatest and most unfathomable one.

The impression I have is that, dv, we shall merge with God, after the fashion of the Vedanta belief in Samadhi, yet retain our individuality, our distinctive personhood, as sons and daughters of the most High. Very much a family thing, as a created extension of the family of the Most Holy Trinity.

Jesus speaks of the Vine, his Mystical Body in Catholic parlance, of which he is the Head, and we are the branches. I tend to see us as kind of clones of Christ, while retaining our individual personalities, made alive and nourished by the Holy Spirit, as the sap does, a vine.

People who have had NDEs speak of having been given all knowledge. I wonder if it's because we are part of one another in and under Christ. We know we could never plumb the depths of God, so it would obviously refer to the entirety of his creation, heavenly and earthly, our knowledge of God, Himself, being the measure of the capacity for divine love of our heart, but ultimately, always finite.
 
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Tony Hyman

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Sorry Sir but, no one has ever asked that question of me ever! I have asked it before.

That is not a "proverbial carrot" of other religions as I am quite sure they would rather NOT teach the subject and pretend those verses do not even exist!

I thought it was a great question and I've often wondered about that myself! Unfortunately, for me and the original poster, no one teaches it!

At least now, we are all dealing with it.
With all respect Sir, other religions do hold this "proverbial carrot" . For example "Since
reincarnation teaches a pantheistic, impersonal God, it follows that reincarnation also teaches that we can become God(realize our deity), just as Jesus did.For them, Jesus Christ was not unique in His deity: He was representative of what all of us can realize...We do not become Christs or God. We do not realize our own innate deity.We are creatures who can be made whole in the sight of God through the sacrifice of His Son."(Walter Martin.The New Cults.363-365) I believe it's common knowledge who the believers in "reincarnation" are.
 
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