If we are saved by faith why do some verses of the Bible seem to state that we are not?

[Blade]

The Father grace.. did you or we deserve it? No.. what did we do to get it? Again nothing. Now to believe in Jesus one MUST have faith period. So EVERYONE is saved by this GRACE freely given. Gods favor..unmerited.

All of the word just flows... like the river of life

 

[JIMINZ]

Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?

.
You have a ton of verses, some pro, some con.

Here is one you omitted.

Mar 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now, it doesn't get any simpler than that, no complications, cut and dried.
Are you able to find one verse which Refutes that verse?

If not then it's by Faith, and you need to begin looking for answers to your questions without the Presupposition, there are verses which Contradict others, a good starting point would be, the Understanding, Jesus was speaking to the Jews not the Gentiles, those people spoken of such as,

Mat. 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

those spoken of being rejected by Him are those Jews of that Generation.

Jesus said about Himself.
Mat. 15:24
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Jesus said to His Disciples.
Mat 10:5,6
5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[The Times]

And which spiritually makes one a child of God:

Yes, go on and please don't forget to quote the context.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3).

New birth into a living HOPE, through the resurrection. Underline HOPE, noting that HOPE is biblically defined as..........

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. (Hebrews 11:1)

So, in order for us to see or to realise this living hope, hoped for in this temporal life, the Testator must biologically die (Hebrews 9:16-17).

Therefore in this temporal life, we only have the Living Hope of the New Birth, through the resurrection. As Jesus said I will raise you up on the last day.

Please, at least provide the entire context when quoting a verse.

4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, (1 Peter 1:4)

The progression emphasis of the term "into" an inheritance that can never perish, points to the hope of realising or witnessing/seeing the budding of that new birth, that was hoped for in this temporal life, but had not yet been received/realised. Hence Paul speaking of the new birth, reassures that it is kept or stored for you in Heaven. When you tie this with the hope of the resurrection, then you realise that the new birth hoped for, does not come into fruition until the Testator/Witness biologically dies.

they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Notice the conditional statement MIGHT receive the promise HOPED for, but not seen.

5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Peter 1:5)

Is revealed in the last day, which is on the day of judgment, at Christ's coming, as Jesus stated that he will raise us up on the last day. So if you take the context of versus 4 and 5 in conjunction with the new birth, then you would come to the understanding that no one in this temporal life has arrived at seeing/realising their final new birthing that is only hoped for, for now, whilst their race of faith is an ongoing struggle against the body of sin, that needs to be destroyed, under the requirement of the blood covenant (Hebrews 9:15-17)

6In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.

Ongoing process of purgation within this temporal life, as part and parcel of the life long sanctification process by the Spirit of God.

7These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Again, the new birth is associated with an ongoing purgation process (sanctification), that may at the end of the Testator's life result in the glory and honour, WHEN Christ is revealed.

This alludes to the Heavenly sinless body on the day of resurrection, as the last Adams.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28)

To the apostles who had seen Jesus the first time, they looked onto the day, where as in 1 John 3:2, he will appear to them the second time, when they are in their incorruptible sinless bodies, onto salvation, where they will finally see, that is receive the promise of eternal life hoped for whilst they were in their Adamic body of sin, before their new birth through the resurrection.

8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,

This living hope that is yet received or seen, is the biblical definition of hope, whilst we are living in the temporal body of sin. We are being born, but this is only a starting process, for the new body of heaven, that awaits those who are resurrected on the last day.

9for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Again, this living hope, is a process in the making which results in the works of God, in those who are continually being refined and moulded in the image of the Son.

In conclusion, the new birth or being born again, is a beginning and not the final destination reached, because we have yet to be awarded our crown of life, on the day of resurrection.

• Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

• Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:23)

You do realise that you have omitted the context entirely.
Read what in depth exegesis I have written in reply.

 

[redleghunter]

The example that Jesus gives of being born again, is a process and that process entails a life long journey that has a beginning and a end destination

Discipleship is a life long sojourning. Being born again is a one time event. We were only born once physically and Jesus uses this example to show this spiritually.

hence the phrase...."you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going". This alludes to an ongoing process, that has a beginning and an ending.

No it doesn't really. It refers to being born again is a Sovereign act of God where the Holy Spirit quickens our dead spirit and breathes new life in us. Lazarus come forth and then he did that very moment.

It therefore is a life long sanctification process by the Spirit of God and of the Spirit of God, in those who are being continually regenerated, to conform to the image of the Son.

Take continuous regeneration out of the above and I agree with the statement.

Paul states:

2 Corinthians 5:17 World English Bible (WEB)
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.

 

[The Times]

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

What about the context....

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Becoming the sons of God, is not a done deal, it is a process of finishing your race and keeping the faith. Jesus gave an example of the faithful servant and the unfaithful servant, where he states....

45But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (Luke 12)

So being born again, is a life long process that has to be taken to the grave, until its fruition, on the day of resurrection.

What is the purpose of Jesus saying be faithful even onto death and I will give you a crown of life.

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. (James 1:18)

Underline that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

Condition of being a firstfruit, through the context of the resurrection, is highlighted in the IF condition....that is....WE MIGHT.

In retrospect, the living HOPE of what we have yet to receive, is just that, that is a HOPE. It is not claiming that we are already there, rather we are in a protracted course of getting there, after we complete our race of faith, whilst we keep the faith onto biological death. This is what Tribulation is.

 

[Oldmantook]

What about the man that may feel guilty about not being obedient, when It may turn out that he was all along (John 3:21)...

What does Paul mean by a man "remaining as he is" in (1 Corinthians 7:20, and 1 Corinthians 7:24) in "whatever state he was called...?" Let him remain a way, or stay in it, and just not get worse...? considering the age and time, and the world, or what...?

God Bless!

Are you sure you have the right verse - Jn 3:21? I don't see anything in that verse that refers to a man's guilt.
The context of 1 Cor 7:20-24 refers to the state we were in when we were called/saved. Paul refers to those who were in the state of circumcision or uncircumcision; slave of free - it does not matter. V.24 states "Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called." Remain with God means keeping the faith and remaining obedient.

 

[The Times]

Being born again is a one time event.

There is no such claim in scripture. In fact Jesus says, if a believer does not keep the faith unto death, then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

So how could being born again be a one time event in this respect?

It refers to being born again is a Sovereign act of God where the Holy Spirit quickens our dead spirit and breathes new life in us.

It is a life long process, until the body of sin is permanently destroyed. It has a conditional IF.....THEN....ELSE statement attached to it in context.

Once the body of sin is destroyed, there is no turning back and the IF....THEN...ELSE no longer applies, because the Testator has biologically died.

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

It is a process of reconciliation through the purgation fires of the Spirit (John 3:5)

The new things have come and the new creation is a process in play, onto biological death and onto resurrection, to finally receive what was hoped for.

 

[Sebastian Michael]

Faith is not what saves us, but GRACE. They are two different things. Take a look at the wonderful, yet short book of James and it is clearly shown.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, 'Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled'; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." - James 2:14-18
Yeshua (Jesus) preached throughout his teachings that we ought to perform and do good works. He said, “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” - Matthew 5:16
But he also said, "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 6:1
This is not a contradiction here. Yeshua clearly commanded that we ought to go out of our way to do good works at any time we see a chance. However, he told us that when we do them, that we should do them without seeking an audience or the validation of others. That we should not flock to Facebook and say, "Man I feel great! Just fed 30 homeless people today! Aren't I the greatest? What have YOU done for your community today?" You should want the feeling you get in your heart after doing your good work to be your reward, not the applauding of men. There is nothing wrong with a community coming together for the betterment of the people as whole, but we should be able to discern between the right and wrong times to have an audience when doing good works. If you see a homeless man on the street, FEED HIM if you can. Even a dollar will buy a bundle of bananas at your local Wal-Mart or Meijer. But when you do it, always remember why you are doing it. Who cares if somebody sees you doing it? "Well I want to show other people in the hopes of inspiring them though. It's for a good cause! A good reason!" No no no. If you want to get other people to do good in the world, give them the gospel of the Son of God and his teachings. Give them over to God. You give them that and they will be all about doing good. They need a reason to care about others in such a Godless world as this. And always pray for them as our Lord commanded us. Pray for their renewal unto life. Pray that they wake up. My friend, we are commanded to do good works. We are commanded to abstain from evil. One man Yeshua healed is an example that faith alone does not save.
“Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” - John 5:14
And again Yeshua said this to the adulteress woman.
"When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and SIN NO MORE." - John 8:11
People argue that it is impossible to not sin because it is in our very nature to do so. Well that is a terrible excuse to not try. God knows we aren't perfect friend. That is why it is written, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” - Romans 3:23
But this is why we should try all the more to fight against it. Why would the Bible tell us to "put on the full armor of God" if there were no battle to fight? On the contrary, we are taught that we are actually in a CONSTANT battle for our very souls. Faith is important, yes. There is no arguing that. But it is where you place your faith that counts and what you do with it to prove it. Again, look at what James wrote. "show me thy faith without thy works and I will show you MY faith BY my works." Faith and works are intended to go hand in hand. The two most compelling and obvious verses I can think of to support my claim are the following:
“He that SAITH he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” - 1st John 2:6
“This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.” - Matthew 15:8
Basically the message here in black and white is this: It's not enough to talk the talk and honor the Lord with your lips. But you must also take up your cross and WALK THE WALK, even as Christ walked. May God bless you my friend and all that are digitally roaming this forum.

 

[Neogaia777]

Are you sure you have the right verse - Jn 3:21? I don't see anything in that verse that refers to a man's guilt.
The context of 1 Cor 7:20-24 refers to the state we were in when we were called/saved. Paul refers to those who were in the state of circumcision or uncircumcision; slave of free - it does not matter. V.24 states "Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called." Remain with God means keeping the faith and remaining obedient.

That his past unrighteous works and behavior were in the will of God all along, if he is sovereign, and Paul marveled at and in this... Cause it applied to his now and future also, but, what is the light many do not want to walk in...? I wonder if the light could be constant awareness of never being alone or having an audience "all the time", or not...?

You might get the urge to start explaining yourself and talking to them when you know you have fallen short, but, you get used to never being alone, and you have an audience, and I wonder if that is the light in any way...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

That his past unrighteous works and behavior were in the will of God all along, if he is sovereign, and Paul marveled at and in this... Cause it applied to his now and future also, but, what is the light many do not want to walk in...? I wonder if the light could be constant awareness of never being alone or having an audience "all the time", or not...?

You might get the urge to start explaining yourself and talking to them when you know you have fallen short, but, you get used to never being alone, and you have an audience, and I wonder if that is the light in any way...?

God Bless!

I'll walk a leaving flock of flames in my wake...

It's on, punks...

Your gonna remember me and this...

Cure to being alone, but might be for the psychotic some might say...

I can tell you how to talk to and with them btw...?

God Bless!

 

[The Times]

God Disciplines His Children

4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (Hebrews 12:4)

Dying daily is a continuous act of purgation, where regeneration is happening and yet the final destination new birth can only be realised when the body of sin, is finally put to biological death. So the apostles believed that the struggle is not over until the shedding of your blood, meaning you must biologically die.

 

[discipler7]

Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone.

.
That's likely because some Christians do not see that having faith in Jesus Christ is the same as having faith in God; ... since Jesus was also God, ie God-in-the-flesh.(JOHN.1:1 & 14, 1TIMOTHY.3:16)
... At JOHN.8:58, Jesus Christ stated He was also the God of Abraham and Moses, ie the "I AM WHO I AM" or YaHWeH.(EXODUS.3:14) See also JOHN.14:7-11.(seeing Jesus = seeing God the Father)

So, if you believe in Jesus Christ for your salvation, you should also believe in God and in His Word/Law/commandments, eg HEBREWS.11, which defines what faith truly is.
... The Word of God at ACTS.15:24-29 exempts Gentile Christians from the burdensome parts of God's Law or Moses Law, eg circumcision and kosher foods. They are not exempted from laws like those at 1COR.6:9-11, etc, ie non-burdensome morality laws. Hence, those who practice lawlessness, eg sexual immorality, will not inherit the kingdom of God = because they do not have faith in God/Jesus.

When ignorant Christians split Jesus Christ from God, that's when controversy, confusion and false teachings ensue. Eg ...
Pray to Jesus! DO NOT PRAY TO GOD!

 

[Daniel9v9]

I find that the relationship between faith and good works can be best summed up in Ephesians 2 where it says:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

 

[PeaceByJesus]

‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. (John 3:7-8)
The example that Jesus gives of being born again, is a process...
Being born again in the present tense, is to claim to have the crown of life already. Full Preterists claim this and it is ironic, that you seem to imply that we are in the present tense born again, without any recourse to the life long sanctifying works of God. So in effect you are claiming, like the Preterists that you have arrived at your final destination and that you already possess your crown of life and have been fully conformed to the Image of the glorified Son. John in 1 John 3:2 does not agree with your claim at all.
Should I believe you or the Apostle John?

That simply is contrary to the texts which speak of believers has having been born again, and born of God, and who thus are led by the Spirit as per John 3:7-8, which all your verbiage has not overcome. Being presently the born again children of God is not opposed at all to dying to self to live for Christ, and growth in grace and with the resurrection making the same fully conformed to Christ. And i am glad you believe in that future event for those you finally preserve in faith versus falling away.

Moreover, rather then me saying that we (much less I) have already been "fully conformed to the Image of the glorified Son," you ignored what i said that "Therefore having been spiritually born they are to grow spiritually," "believers are be in character and practice what they are in position and in spirit," "while we are to seek to be as much like a resurrected believer here on earth, the growth in grace and final transformation of the resurrection is not being born again, but is a culmination of that event, which happens in conversion, by effectual faith, as heretofore described." That time (Revelation 11:18) is when they will be fully conformed to the Image of the glorified Son and receive the crown of life, as well as other crowns.

As shown and not refuted, believers are presently the children of God by the new birth, and await the full realization of that in the resurrection. Neither is a process, but the culmination of a process, first of conviction unto conversion, and then of growth in grace thru many trials (presuming they do not die immediately as with the dying thief) unto the resurrection.

But your misapprehension or miscontruance of what i said is consistent with that of your reading of Scripture and unreasonable insistence on your wresting of Scripture. Which hard warrants more attempts to reason further.

 

[Cat Loaf You]

Okay so I had a thought. Throughout the Bible the Bible says that we're saved by faith. Yet in some parts of the Bible it says that we are not saved by faith alone. In John 6:39-6:40 Jesus says:

"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

And also in John 10:28-29:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.

And also in John 3:16:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.

These verses prove that we are saved by faith and that those who believe in Jesus WILL be saved. But, there are also other verses in the Bible that Jesus said that trouble me and seem to disprove that we are saved by faith like:

Matthew 7:21:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 25:31-46 (Too long to put in here)

Matthew 19:17:

"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."

Matthew 6:15:

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Matthew 19:17 seems to say that we must keep the commandments to be saved and then he lists what commandments he's talking about in the next two verses.

Matthew 7:21 seems to say that only those who do the will of the Father will be saved. Which confuses many people until the will of the Father is explained in John 6:39-40. The will of the father is that everyone who believes in Jesus will have eternal life and never be lost. Jesus will not lose a single one of these people so the "Many" people who are not saved in Matthew 7:21 are those who don't believe in Jesus right?


Matthew 6:15 seems to add the additional requirement of forgiving others to salvation. Making Jesus's words in John 6:39-40 basically a lie because Jesus said that all believers would be saved and would be eternally secure.

Matthew 25:31-46 seems to say that works are required for salvation. Yet this is contrary to Pauls words in Ephesians 2:9 when he says "Not by works lest any man should boast". Also in James 2:20 James says "Faith without works is dead" which seems to back up Jesus's words in Matthew 25:31-46. That a true faith would have works and therefore those who are not saved in those verses did not have a true faith. So that could be the answer to my problem on these verses but, what about the others?

I came to conclusion 99% Christians don't distinct between two gospels shown here .

In Matthew you keep commandments because Jesus preached Gospel of the Kingdom , that gospel is returning back again in tribulation proclaimed by Angel from Heaven .

For today your gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 it's gospel for Gentiles because Israel rejected Messiah .

Paul says in Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If it's revelation then it was not there before , meaning it can't be the same gospel as Jesus preached .


Also to distinc between these gospels , Gospel of Kingdom is not for us today :

Galatians 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


and

Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,



It really makes me sad that most of so called Christians don't know where gospel of salvation is , there is no excuse you have probably read NT multiple times , focus more on what you are reading or it's pointless if you are so distracted that you miss the most important thing in all doctrine - how to be saved .

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Yes, go on and please don't forget to quote the context.
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)....
In conclusion, the new birth or being born again, is a beginning and not the final destination reached, because we have yet to be awarded our crown of life, on the day of resurrection..

Sigh. The two are not opposed. Peter teaches the believer presently has been begotten (and thus are essentially new creations: 2Co. 5:17), but not as an end in itself, but unto the resurrection, which is a different event, not a process but the culmination of the new birth, and persevering faith. Thus newly converted, newly born-of-the-Spirit souls would go to be with the Lord if they died that day, as will those who die in saving faith after many years, and await the resurrection of the body and its glorification.

 

[The Times]

That simply is contrary to the texts which speak of believers has having been born again, and born of God, and who thus are led by the Spirit as per John 3:7-8, which all your verbiage has not overcome. Being presently the born again children of God is not opposed at all to dying to self to live for Christ, and growth in grace and with the resurrection making the same fully conformed to Christ. And i am glad you believe in that future event for those you finally preserve in faith versus falling away.

Born again is a process and not a one time event, because a servant is able to go backwards, by reverting to the self of flesh and to feed th body of sin. Overcoming is when one biologically dies, whilst keeping the faith in Christ. That is why Paul states that he dies daily to the body of sin, who is the old man. In Hebrews the resistance to the temptations of the flesh is to shedding of blood, where the body of sin is finally out to rest (Romans 6:6).

I will endeavour in another post clarify Romans 6:6. That post hits two birds with one stone, in that it answers your post and also refutes Full Preterists doctrine. I am not saying that you are a Preterist.

Moreover, rather then me saying that we (much less I) have already been "fully conformed to the Image of the glorified Son," you ignored what i said that "Therefore having been spiritually born they are to grow spiritually," "believers are be in character and practice what they are in position and in spirit," "while we are to seek to be as much like a resurrected believer here on earth, the growth in grace and final transformation of the resurrection is not being born again, but is a culmination of that event, which happens in conversion, by effectual faith, as heretofore described." That time (Revelation 11:18) is when they will be fully conformed to the Image of the glorified Son and receive the crown of life, as well as other crowns.

Growing spiritually is what being born again is about. It is a life long transformation onto death. Whilst the western mind looks at the glass half empty, until it is completed, the eastern mind looks at the glass half full, until it is completely full. So the question is, if a servant is 100% born again or not. The answer is a no brainer, because 100% born again is not dictated by a mere thought of faith, rather it is tested across an entire servant's lifetime, which provides the evidence of the work of faith. The western mind looks at it as a one time event and it is a done deal, yet the eastern mind considers it as a protracted transition, that has been entered until it is fully completed.

As shown and not refuted, believers are presently the children of God by the new birth, and await the full realization of that in the resurrection. Neither is a process, but the culmination of a process, first of conviction unto conversion, and then of growth in grace thru many trials (presuming they do not die immediately as with the dying thief) unto the resurrection.

Being born again is not a mere conviction according to John 3:5, it is a process of regeneration throughout a life time. Either a servant is there or he has began his journey towards his/her final destination. Take for example Paul, we see across his entire 15 year ministry that he was continually being regenerated and the new birth was continuious in action, until he declared himself as having finished his race of faith, whilst keeping the faith.

But your misapprehension or miscontruance of what i said is consistent with that of your reading of Scripture and unreasonable insistence on your wresting of Scripture. Which hard warrants more attempts to reason further.

Again, I will present to you my final commentary of Romans 6:6, which deals with the body of sin. We are declared children of God, yet we have not arrived for the title to be ratified by the works of faith when the body of sin is finally destroyed.

 

[PeaceByJesus]

What about the context....

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Becoming the sons of God, is not a done deal, it is a process of finishing your race and keeping the faith.

There is nothing contextually that is opposed to what I said, and being presently born again in regeneration unto the future transformation are not opposed to each other. John states that believers are presently the sons of God, "which were born," being "born of God" - "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" - (1 John 5:1) but that indeed does not mean perseverance in faith is not required, as Hebrews especially exhorts and warns. And which results in the resurrection:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

But which is not referred to as the new birth, despite your insistence on making it so.

So being born again, is a life long process that has to be taken to the grave, until its fruition, on the day of resurrection.

Once again,
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God,"
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth"
"Which were born,"
"begotten of him," "is born of him,"
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus,"
born "after the Spirit' versus "born after the flesh"
is stated to be a present reality, which is not opposed to the need for final perseverance if faith, and of the resurrection, despite your false dichotomies.

What is the purpose of Jesus saying be faithful even onto death and I will give you a crown of life.

The same as the giving of other crowns to those who already are accepted in the Beloved and seated with Him in Heaven, and died that way. In grace, God rewards souls for their faith (Hebrews 10:35) in recognition of it via its works, for which He alone is worthy of credit for.

So, in order for us to see or to realise this living hope, hoped for in this temporal life, the Testator must biologically die (Hebrews 9:16-17).

Talk about lack of context, that is referring to the institution of the new covenant, while if one must biologically die to be resurrected/born again, then 1 Corinthians 15:51, 1 Thessalonians 4:15 are incorrect.

Underline that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Condition of being a firstfruit, through the context of the resurrection, is highlighted in the IF condition....that is....WE MIGHT.
In retrospect, the living HOPE of what we have yet to receive, is just that, that is a HOPE. It is not claiming that we are already there, rather we are in a protracted course of getting there, after we complete our race of faith, whilst we keep the faith onto biological death. This is what Tribulation is.

Underline Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, (James 1:18) which is present reality, and simply is not opposed to the resurrection.

Why you see these as mutually exclusive is beyond me. I just got off a forum thread with another Orthodox who also continually engaged in false either/or dichotomies.

 

[The Times]

Sigh. The two are not opposed. Peter teaches the believer presently has been begotten (and thus are essentially new creations: 2Co. 5:17), but not as an end in itself, but unto the resurrection, which is a different event, not a process but the culmination of the new birth, and persevering faith. Thus newly converted, newly born-of-the-Spirit souls would go to be with the Lord if they died that day, as will those who die in saving faith after many years, and await the resurrection of the body and its glorification.

Again, the title of being born again is ratified, after the body of sin, the old man is finally put to rest. So long as we are contending with the body of sin on a daily basis, and are dying daily, this is a process until the transition happens, where the IF....THEN....ELSE condition no longer applies. For all men are destined to die once then judgment.

Roman 6:6 will explain it.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

The book of James says that faith and works are inseparable.

I think that's the only place is it not?

Although as dirty rags you will see their works..

M-Bob