If We are Forced as Christians to Take Christ out of Christmas...

[Aimee30]

I suggest that it be taken away as a national holiday. People should have to work on Christmas, including government officials. Or, they can only restrict their ruling to actual government organizations and let us call it whatever we want.
Thoughts?

 

[Objectivity]

Suggestion denied.

 

[Gracchus]

A solstice feast is useful to society as a break in the gloom of winter. You can use it to celebrate Christmas if you like, or Hanakkuh, or Kwanza, or Yule, or anything you like. If you want to ignore it you can. If you want to work, work. Just because society sets aside a day for celebration, why must everyone celebrate what you want to celebrate? Why should everyone be penalized because you want to play dog in the manger?

 

[Danhalen]

I suggest that it be taken away as a national holiday. People should have to work on Christmas, including government officials.

Are you suggesting this because we call it Christmas? The name of the holiday does not dictate ideology. Sure, it started as a celebration of the birth of your savior, but it does not mean that to many lay folk (including Christians).

Or, they can only restrict their ruling to actual government organizations and let us call it whatever we want.
Thoughts?

I already do call it whatever I want. I call it Christmas because I was raised that way. I don't care if anyone calls it anything else. It sickens me to no end that a word has so much power to distress people (on either end of the debate).

 

[Gracchus]

Sure, it started as a celebration of the birth of your savior, but it does not mean that to many lay folk (including Christians).

Actually it started as the feast of Sol Invictus (the unconquerable sun) or the Birthday of Mithras.

 

[Objectivity]

Henceforth, Christmas is known as Xmas!

 

[StromRider]

I suggest that it be taken away as a national holiday. People should have to work on Christmas, including government officials. Or, they can only restrict their ruling to actual government organizations and let us call it whatever we want.
Thoughts?

Christ out of Christmas? I guess someone forgot to tell the billion or so churches in the US. Christmas, and Christ, seem to be doing quite fine in the US - I live here so I know you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church.

If christ is being removed from 'government' locales, the government that issupposed to be for all the people and not support just one religion, then that is a good thing.

Is your faith so weak that it will suffer if you can't see a christ statue on every government building in the country?

 

[Danhalen]

Actually it started as the feast of Sol Invictus (the unconquerable sun) or the Birthday of Mithras.

I am speaking in reference to the western world's celebration of Christmas. Particularly the institution of the US government. When Christmas was founded as a national holiday it was based on Christian ritual. Therefore, when we discuss the ethical implications of "what Christmas actually is" it is obfuscating the intent of the discussion by bringing in old world foundations for the reason Christmas is celebrated. Christmas is, in Christian ideology, the celebration of the birth of their savior. It does not matter why it is celebrated on December the 25th. In my opinion, the secularization of the western world has once again changed the definition of "what Christmas actually is", and the ethical implication should begin from "what it was last time we looked at it".

Personally I find the offense to the secularization of Christmas silly. We may all keep it as we wish. I do not understand why so many are offended at the way one person passes along "good will toward men" (which is what Christmas has become). If I were Christian I would be more concerned with what has become of Easter.

 

[Glass*Soul]

I suggest that it be taken away as a national holiday. People should have to work on Christmas, including government officials. Or, they can only restrict their ruling to actual government organizations and let us call it whatever we want.
Thoughts?

Do you feel that, as a Christian, you are being forced to take Christ out of Christmas? If so, in what way is this being forced upon you?

 

[whitestar]

Is your faith so weak that it will suffer if you can't see a christ statue on every government building in the country?

What Christ statues? I don't see any around here...in fact there are very few that I am aware of actually....

The OP I am sure is talking about how 'offended' certain people are getting over anything suggesting Jesus...navity scenes..."oh my gosh I went blind looking at a fake baby Jesus the other day!" and the offending "Merry Christmas" words and anything else suggesting Jesus...and yea it is stupid...no one was 'offended' by any of this stuff until about three years ago...did they all have blinders on before then or what?

Actually the 'mass' in Christmas means mass in a Catholic mass I think...so you would want to remove that too...and Holiday actually means...Holy Day....so better not say that either.

We have Christmas In July ...my family. Where we do the 'material' giving for the kids...to remove it from the Christmas in December so the focus can actually be on the birth of Jesus and not the greedy, 'what am I getting' stuff that goes on.

This country will never get rid of Christmas...the stores make TOO much money this time of year...so even if everyone (well on here) wanted to get rid of it...sorry but masses are out in full force shopping already...in fact it took me longer sitting at the corner in my car waiting on traffic to slow down just so I could pull out...then it actually took me to drive the short ways to the grocery store. If I didn't have to buy heavy stuff to bring home I could have gotten it faster today by walking!!! blah...

And no one come to my house to look at my lights...I have a navity scene out front....bawhahahahahaha

 

[loriersea]

The OP I am sure is talking about how 'offended' certain people are getting over anything suggesting Jesus...navity scenes..."oh my gosh I went blind looking at a fake baby Jesus the other day!" and the offending "Merry Christmas" words and anything else suggesting Jesus...and yea it is stupid...no one was 'offended' by any of this stuff until about three years ago...did they all have blinders on before then or what?

And that in no way means that anyone is being forced to "take the Christ out of Christmas." Because Wal-Mart employees greet you with "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" does NOT mean the Christ is being taken out of Christmas.

Personally, I would think that having a store clerk wish you "Merry Christmas" starting on Nov. 28th because that's when the big holiday shopping starts would be taking the Christ out of Christmas. That would be defining the holiday by the consumer calendar, rather than the church calendar.

And, three years ago, "Happy Holidays" didn't offend anyone.

 

[Glass*Soul]

This country will never get rid of Christmas...the stores make TOO much money this time of year...so even if everyone (well on here) wanted to get rid of it...sorry but masses are out in full force shopping already...in fact it took me longer sitting at the corner in my car waiting on traffic to slow down just so I could pull out...then it actually took me to drive the short ways to the grocery store. If I didn't have to buy heavy stuff to bring home I could have gotten it faster today by walking!!! blah...

Indeed. They won't get rid of Christmas. By calling it "The Holidays" instead they're hoping to rope in the spending power of everyone who isn't a Christian as well.

As for the government, they shouldn't be promiting a particular religion. However, it is their job to promote capitalism, isn't it?

 

[wanderingone]

Suggestion denied.

I second that..any new business? No? Motion to adjourn.

 

[listener]

I am glad to see that, at the top of the page now, they have a 'Jesus is the reason for the season' banner.......to me that is enough that the christians truly know; everyone else will do as they see fit like always....

 

[katautumn]

Christmas is a federal holiday. More and more retail outlets are open on Christmas day. The Postal Service, banks and government offices are closed on presidents' birthdays when other offices are open for business. Many offices allow Jewish employees to take off in observance of certain Jewish holy days, just as many offices allow African-American employees to take off Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday.

And nobody is forcing Christians to take the Christ out of Christmas. Has anyone told you that you cannot have a church service on Christmas day? Has anyone told you that you cannot send out Christian themed holiday cards? Has anyone told you that you cannot put a lit nativity scene out in your front yard? has anyone told you that you cannot sing "Silent Night" with your family friends and your Christmas party?

Just because a school or government office cannot endorse one group's specific holy day does not mean they are forcing you to take the Christ out of Christmas. And here's a little bit of hypocrisy for you. Schools cannot put up pictures of the baby Jesus in a manger and that is offensive to Christians and yet these same schools cannot put up decorations that depict devils, witches or ghosts during Halloween or call a school party a Halloween Festival because that offends Christians. You work in a government office and you're offended by a tolerance policy that caters to gay and lesbian employees and yet you're equally offended by the lack of religious imagery during the Christmas holidays that shows tolerance toward vast religious beliefs. You can't have it both ways.

The funny thing is, this "war against Christmas" was started by Christians. It was the American Family Association who boycotted Target stores on the false pretense that they do not have any displays that say "Christmas". It was Jerry Falwell who claims Christmas was founded by Christians (when it was, in fact, a tradition started by Pagans) and that you're either for Christmas or you hate Christians. It was Bill O'Reilly who coined the phrase "War on Christmas" on his show "The O'Reilly Factor". What exactly are Christians trying to prove here?

 

[whitestar]

And here's a little bit of hypocrisy for you. Schools cannot put up pictures of the baby Jesus in a manger and that is offensive to Christians and yet these same schools cannot put up decorations that depict devils, witches or ghosts during Halloween or call a school party a Halloween Festival because that offends Christians.

Not true! at my son's school they DO have Halloween parties and have up decoration of ghosts, witches, etc...and mostly Christians go to the school too. They also have Christian Christmas decorations up along with other reglions holiday decorations up that happen this time of the year. And yes we know Christmas was placed OVER a pagan holiday...on purpose.

http://www.equip.org/free/CP9001.htm
From the Christian Research Institute:
Is Christmas Christian?
The best arguments against Christmas are the pagan myths and practices that have attached themselves like so many barnacles to a ship. But just as you don't abandon a ship simply because its got some barnascles on it, you don't need to abandon Christmas because non-Christians abuse it.

The Bible neither commands or condemns Christmas. Nor is there any biblical principle violated by the celebration of Christ's birthday. Scripture clearly teaches that anything is permitted as long as it does not violate biblical principles, and as long as it is done in faith, with love, and in a manner that edifies (Rom. 13:10; 14:4-5, 23; 1 Cor. 6:12; 10:23; Col. 2:20-22)

Often we are told that celebrating Christ's birthday on December 25th is very wrong, for two reasons. The first is that Christ was probably not even born on December 25th. That's probably true, but so what? We don't know on what day Jesus Christ was actually born, but what does it really matter? What matters is that we are commemorating the birth of the Savior of the world.

The second objection is more weighty-when Christmas was orgianlly instituted, December 25th was a pagan festival which commengorated the birthday of a false god. While this is a historal fact, what is often overlooked by the church is its intent in choosing December 25th in the first place. The church was not Christianizing a pagan festival, but was establishing the celebration of the birth of Christ as a rival celebration. Today the world has all but forgotten about the pagan gods of Greece and Rome, but at least a billion people on planet earth today consider themselves to be followers of Jesus Christ.

There is nothing wrong with celebrating the birth of the Savior of the world, I thing its great. On Christmas, that's the CRI perspective. I'm Hank Hanegraaff.

Well everyone has forgotten about the pagan holiday except those grumpy Christians and others that like to constantly bring it up!

The funny thing is, this "war against Christmas" was started by Christians. It was the American Family Association who boycotted Target stores on the false pretense that they do not have any displays that say "Christmas". It was Jerry Falwell who claims Christmas was founded by Christians (when it was, in fact, a tradition started by Pagans) and that you're either for Christmas or you hate Christians. It was Bill O'Reilly who coined the phrase "War on Christmas" on his show "The O'Reilly Factor". What exactly are Christians trying to prove here?

Also not true. The so called war on Christmas started three years ago over people being 'offended' by a city hall displaying a navity scene...and remember this story from just last year?

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/printthread.php?t=398753&pp=40
Governor puts Christmas back into tree ceremony
By Brian Melley, Associated Press
SACRAMENTO - Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger took on the role of "Triminator" yesterday, helping a disabled girl hang the final ornament on the state Christmas tree and ending a secular practice of calling it a "holiday tree."
Schwarzenegger did not mention the name change that was done in honor of the late Sen. William "Pete" Knight, who had lobbied unsuccessfully for the change before his death earlier this year.
Before lighting the tree, Schwarzenegger talked about his Christmas traditions growing up in Austria, singing carols in German around a tree trimmed with candy, cookies and real candles.

Remember last year everyone 'suddenly' starting calling Christmas trees holiday tress and Christmas parades "Winter Parades" and in one city they actually rejected a Christian group that wanted to be in as they usually were, singing Christian Christmas songs and displaying Christian Christmas themes. pretty sad that a few, started this a few years ago and now its snowballed out of control thanks to the media...

 

[Lynden1000]

I suggest that it be taken away as a national holiday. People should have to work on Christmas, including government officials. Or, they can only restrict their ruling to actual government organizations and let us call it whatever we want.
Thoughts?

Given the hordes of shoppers trampling over each other to get the latest gizmos and doodads, I don't think you need to worry about people taking Christ out of Christmas. I think you first need to worry about getting him *IN*.

 

[whitestar]

Given the hordes of shoppers trampling over each other to get the latest gizmos and doodads, I don't think you need to worry about people taking Christ out of Christmas. I think you first need to worry about getting him *IN*.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[whitestar]

And that in no way means that anyone is being forced to "take the Christ out of Christmas." Because Wal-Mart employees greet you with "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" does NOT mean the Christ is being taken out of Christmas.

Personally, I would think that having a store clerk wish you "Merry Christmas" starting on Nov. 28th because that's when the big holiday shopping starts would be taking the Christ out of Christmas. That would be defining the holiday by the consumer calendar, rather than the church calendar.

And, three years ago, "Happy Holidays" didn't offend anyone.

That is true..and someone saying Happy Holidays didn't offend me three years ago...nor does it today...its always been that way. I frankly don't pay that close of attention to when the well wishing starts...I DO however notice when they have Halloween stuff out and sitting behind it...IS the Christmas stuff! Oh that just makes me wanta gag! and its not just Christmas either....they do this with EVERY holiday, put struff out two or more months ahead of time! And they will start putting out summer stuff in January too....like I need a lawn chair in 20 degree weather...

 

[Phred]

Nobody is forcing you to take the Christ out of Christmas. People are simply asking Christians to be tolerant of other religions. If you really want to have a discussion about the Christ in Christmas, perhaps you'd best learn some history... This date of December 25th isn't the day Jesus was born. It's a festival that Christianity hijacked! The ancient church converted the Roman feast of Saturnalia into the celebration of the birth of Jesus. The Christmas tree is a Tannenbaum, stolen from the teutonic tribes. Many of the best loved "christmas" stories don't mention Jesus at all. Dickens' A Christmas Carol for example. Happy Holidays is a perfectly appropriate greeting this time of year as "holiday" is taken from words that mean, HOLY DAY. So what exactly is your PROBLEM!?!

Nobody is saying don't celebrate Christmas... that is, except for a few wrongheaded Christians who insist we all celebrate it their way or chuck it. That's nonsense. It's a national day off and we all have learned to celebrate those days in our own ways. Whatever those may be.

When I was in grade school we made Santas and snowmen and learned about Jesus in church. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is suggesting you can't wish someone a Merry Christmas or celebrate it in your own way. All people are asking for is a little bit of tolerence for other beliefs that might not care if Jesus is the reason for the season. Why is this so hard to grant?

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