If UFO's are proven to be 100% real, what happens to your faith?

[Juan777]

Sure. UNIDENTIFED flying objects. If you see something flying, and don't know what it is, it's a UFO. Most are airplanes, but that's no fun, is it?

Flying saucers, though. Nah. No reason AT ALL to believe they exist. No evidence. None. Zero. Narya bit.

YIou want to believe in them on faith? Suit yourself, I'll pass.

KInda like being an expert on frindoofali. THere ain't any frindoofali.

Okay, you are one of those types of people that nothing is real unless it happens to you personally. To each their own. However, that's a very selfish mindset to have. It's like saying cancer does not exist because neither of us never had it. There is enough people who have reported seeing it, or that have been abducted to convince me that something is going on. Even mainstream media is reporting on these things as well as the US government with the Tic-Tac UFOs. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

 

[Walk together]

Might be, what if, too much speculation. I admit there is some possibility that the two instances correlate. They move the same as the present day ‘sightings’. The ‘amber’ part is what the bronze metal come from. You excited youth is very convincing also. I’ll be looking out for such things when the time comes. Thanks for bringing me up to speed @Davy , and @Walk together
What is it that drives you about this?

Hi, Unqualified what drives me on this topic is the fact that I have had many sightings over the years starting from 1987 to 2017, yes some of the sightings may have had an earthly explanation but there have been quite a few that were beyond any explanation and left me very shaken at the time and almost convinced of extraterrestrial existence but I have come to understand that it was the devil trying very hard to trick me and that is when all sightings have stopped as the devil knows now that I am on to him so he has given up trying.

 

[Walk together]

Gotta believe in ET first, don't you? I don't. The old "because the universe is sooooo biiiiiigggg...! "thing for believing in aliens is simply stupid.

I don't get it Jipsah we are not saying the universe is so big that ET must exist we are saying that the Devil is trying to convince us that ET exists why do you find this so hard to consider when we live in a world that is so incredible that it must have been created and not believe in the lesser things. I have seen objects in the day and night sky that was not man made and have come to believe it is demonic, not extraterrestrial.

 

[The Liturgist]

I don't believe in aliens, and I don't beleve in flying saucers. I also don't believe that demons are driving fake flying saucers, becauee I don't believe in flying saucers, fake or otherwise Most "UFOs" are aircraft, and the "aliens or demons" questions are a load of cobblers.

Or better yet, lets way platoons and companies of flying bunnies appear in the sky and are seen by absolutely everyone

Neither,because I'm not that great a ninnie. I'd say "whose are they"? Aliens and Demons are both really low on my list of probable explanations of anything.

Which I find ridiculous. My first guess would be Chinese, for these resasons: A) the Chinese, taken as a whole, are really, really smart, B) the Chinese undoubtedly exist, which cannot be said for aliens, C) the Chinese have known, logical reasons to build and operate advanced aerospace craft, D) I have no reason to believe that demons build air or space craft, at all while I know that people certainly do, E) the Law of Parsimony make thes choice between mundane explanations and fantastical ones a no brainer. So my first bet is the Chinese.

What phenomenon? People thinking anything they see in the air and can't immediately identify is a flying saucer? That phenomenon is inescapable, people will forever persist in such illogicl thinking. Imagining that the lighted blimp you saw at a distance is a space shipp driven by space goomers is a lot more fun than that knowing that it's a bit of early 20th century technology still sputtering along today.

Bother the devil, we imagine aliens and space demons for outselve
[QUOTE="Davy, post: 76789438, member: 404357

So really, what are all these UFO movies I don't think anyone denied that there were rlying thngs thy couldn't identify.

[ They're mostly fodderfor the credulous and gullible

You mean when the "UFOs" turn out to be artifacts of Chinese electronic warfare research? That'll be a terrible disappoinment, won't it?

Keep watching for flyng saucers while the real stuff is rendering your weapons systems obsolete.

s and save Nick the trouble. "No way that ws a KC-135, it was a demon passing itself off as aliens!" Nothing but self deception, and costs el diablo nothing.

Gotta believe in ET first, don't you? I don't. The old "because the universe is sooooo biiiiiigggg...! "thing for believing in aliens is simply stupid.

Doing a lousy job of it as best I can tell. Still no aliens, an however many people believe in aliens, very few actually care, and of those who do, nobody is ready to welcome them. A lot more "War of the Worlds" and "To Serve Man" than "Klaatu berada nicto". Most people's thought vis a vis aliens is to go for their guns.

Nah,the whole "aliens is demons" thing is the silly appealing to the ignorant.[/QUOTE]

The real danger, and the reason I call it a demonic delusion, is what people do based on what they think they themselves or others have seen, for example, Heaven’s Gate, which was a cult built on UFO mythology rather than any actual incident. If a normal person looking into the sky sees something strange, its invariably aircraft, the weather, or interaction between the two, for example, contrails, which many conspiracy theorists are convinced are the result of a massive fleet of secret black ops aircraft spraying chemicals, as opposed to being the hot exhaust of commercial airliners causing moisture in the atmosphere to condense into what is a beautiful trail of moisture.

Particularly beautiful I would add in the case of a four engined airliner like the 747, the A380, the military KC/EC-135 variants of the 707 still flying, or the handful of A340s still in service (I am going to miss those; three of the best trips of my life were vacations to Europe involving AOM and Virgin Atlantic A340s, and the only A340 model I never flew on was the rare -500 that Singpore Airlines used to pioneer SIN-JFK service with, even though they were notoriously underpowered: not dangerously underpowered - just sluggish compared to competing types including the A330 - a famous air traffic controller at JFK cited a British pilot who described the A340-300 to him as having four hair dryers for engines, in contrast to the 757-200, also disappearing, which is known for being something of a rocket ship). Especially a closeup photo where you can see the aircraft and a good bit of the contrails it is emitting.

I am pretty sure that a substantial number of early UFO sightings were related to the development of the U-2, A12 Oxcart/SR-71, and the Have Blue / Senior Trend (F117) aircraft. Area 51 was built to facilitate testing these aircraft in cooperation with Lockheed Skunk Works and Edwards AFB (Groom Lake, where Area 51 is located, is a natural aerodrome very similar to Edwards, a dry lakebed with an arbitrary configuration of strong unpaved runways in addition to the main paved runway). The big secrets we were hiding were the stealth designs in the later aircraft, and the mere existence in the earlier aircraft.

And while none of the tech was stolen from aliens, for they do not exist, at least in a form relevant to us, the A12 and SR-71 were built using titanium largely sourced from the Soviet Union using CIA shell companies ostensibly involved in medical device manufacture (since as you know but some of our friends might not, titanium is inert in the body and thus ideal for hip replacements and other large structural replacements, in contrast to steel and aluminum, the former of which includes iron, which can be fatal in excessive quantities, and the latter of which is safe to handle in manufactured form but which can be very hazardous if ingested. So don’t eat your Apple products…

 

[Davy]

Might be, what if, too much speculation. I admit there is some possibility that the two instances correlate. They move the same as the present day ‘sightings’. The ‘amber’ part is what the bronze metal come from. You excited youth is very convincing also. I’ll be looking out for such things when the time comes. Thanks for bringing me up to speed @Davy , and @Walk together
What is it that drives you about this?

What drives me about this matter?

How God's Word declares that Satan and his angels are coming 'here', among us, for the end of this world per Rev.12:7-17 (and Rev.13), to deceive the whole world (except those of us who remain in Christ Jesus and His Word). It's a perfect setup for deception at the very end, most are expecting some flesh-born Antichrist, or even think the Antichrist is already been born and is in the world today, or that there is no particular singular individual known as the Antichrist, etc. Just about every other... idea about a coming false one is being preached EXCEPT what the Scriptures actually reveal about Satan and his angels coming among us at the end of this world.

 

[Davy]

So really, what are all these UFO movies I don't think anyone denied that there were rlying thngs thy couldn't identify.

[ They're mostly fodderfor the credulous and gullible
....

You want to look into the actual facts before expressing such an opinion. Ever hear of Project Bluebook? Long ago the U.S. military acted like they were going to look into the reports of many... in aviation like pilots and such, that reported seeing these objects. Not all stayed silent. Thus the U.S. government in their FINAL REPORTS DENIED that any such phenomena existed, pretty much like you're doing.

But NOW, since the Navy pilot incident of late (see YouTube link), U.S. government officials have come forward and admitted the objects do exist, but they gave them a different name instead of UFO.

 

[The Liturgist]

.

 

[JohnRemnant]

Since quite a few here at CF are totally convinced that aliens have not visited the Earth, I have a question. If the the U.S. government were to ever publicly admit that UFO's are indeed visitors from space and that they have visited the Earth in recent years, what impact would such have upon your faith, if any?

I'd reframe the hypothetical to something more plausible. Knowing that the Bible teaches God, and angels good, and bad have visited the earth, its more likely what many have mistaken for something unidentified, is in reality identified in The scriptures. We know how Christ appeared, not as something foreign, but of the Tribes of Israel. The word angel means messenger so whenever they appear they're always young men. Not creaturelike.
Paul going on to say you may not even recognize them, entertaining angels unawares.

Ezekiel 1 as example, mirrors much of the reports of metallic whirling objects, such as disc and layer cake objects. Ezekiel simply informs us This Is God aboard and separate from Him , four cherubs/living creatures of Revelation in their own vehicles. Discs or what have you. ( four "beasts" translated there ) The Hebrew would bring much of this out. Example. Ezekiel 1:4 ( Amber )

H2830
חשׁמל
chashmal
khash-mal'
Of uncertain derivation;
probably bronze or polished spectrum metal: - amber.

There is no word for color in Hebrew of The Bible, so this world Amber, means it appeared to Ezekiel, his eye, to be highly polished spectrum metallic metal.
I can go into more detail for each verse,
but I'll refrain, the point is made.

So it's likely the powers that be, aim to shroud The Truth, in a cloak of media marketing aliens mystery to the public, rather than The Truth, that God is real, and angels are traversing the planet. Because if you heard aliens from man and media powers, how likely are we to believe them given all we have witnessed from the media education system so far? As a believer Gods' word trumps man every time.

The videos maybe real, but the narrative from media education system, framing the occupants mayn't always be real.

So, given God does not speak of actual ET's I can assume there are none. Given God establishes His home here on earth for The Eternity. And other places being so far, it may take that long to reach them. But I'll guess we'll know more when we leave this life and ask God and know for sure.

Given Tribulation/Deception is eventually upon us, that would concern me more, avoiding Satans' deception.

 

[Walk together]

Its more likely, that the powers that be, aim to shroud the truth, in a cloak of media marketing aliens to the public. Rather than, the truth, that God is real, and angels are traversing the planet. Because if you heard aliens from man and media powers, how likely are we to believe them given all we have witnessed from their so far?

Hi John you make a very good point there the only thing is the government and the military are really no different to the average member of the public regarding there knowledge of the truth. behind closed doors and in mainstream public most people are embarrassed or afraid to speak of God and all things biblical and if let's say a distinguished member of parliament was to express their belef in this matter will they be believed or just ridiculed as most are with the supposed ET phenomenon. Still thanks for making your point.

 

[Jipsah]

Okay, you are one of those types of people that nothing is real unless it happens to you personally.

No, I'm one of those people who don't accept wild tales at face value unless there's some substantial reason to do so. Saying "any flying thing I don't recognize is either an alien or a demon, is not only baseless, but goofy.

To each their own. owever, that's a very selfish mindset to have.

Codswallop. It's the only reasonable mindset. Making basless asumptions is simply ridiculous. "Dunno what it is, must be demon. Seriously?

It's like saying cancer does not exist because neither of us never had it.

Except that there's endlesws evide3nce of the existence of cancer, how it behaves, things that cause or exacerbate it, ad infinitum. Not "he's dying, must be cancer." EVIDENCE is the difference. Cancer isn't a matter of opinion, stroll through a hospital and see as many examples of it as you'd like. Aliens? Zilch, just True Believers nattering about how big the universe is, or other people nattering about demons.

There is enough people who have reported seeing it[/quote] Seeing WHAT? You don't know, you just "know" they're aliens or demons. Baloney.

[quote[or that have been abducted to convince me that something is going on. [/quote] It persuades me that mental illness takes on many forms.

Even mainstream media is reporting on these things as well as the US government with the Tic-Tac UFOs. Sorry, but that doesn't wash.

So nobody knows what they are, so they must v either spacemen or demons. Thick sliced baloney.

 

[Walk together]

Saying "any flying thing I don't recognize is either an alien or a demon, is not only baseless, but goofy.

Have you not read the warnings in the bible to be on your guard and prepare for an attack from your enemy. If you are on your own and a stranger is approaching you from the dark are you not weary or do you just say it's just another person it's nothing. You will be court out if you treat all strange encounters as nothing. An opinion comes from a gut feeling and opinions do matter.

 

[Jipsah]

You mean when the "UFOs" turn out to be artifacts of Chinese electronic warfare research? That'll be a terrible disappoinment, won't it?

Terrible! The True Believers will probaby have to declare the Chinese to be demons. (OK, that's been done before.)

Keep watching for flyng saucers while the real stuff is rendering your weapons systems obsolete.

Yep, worry so much about nonexistent aliens (demonic or otherwise) that you end up getting p0wned your most obvious enemy. But then you just claim they were in league with Satan and Bob's your uncle.

The real danger, and the reason I call it a demonic delusion, is what people do based on what they think they themselves or others have seen, for example, Heaven’s Gate, which was a cult built on UFO mythology rather than any actual incident.

No doubt. Who needs real demons when imaginary demons will serve just as well? Satan's work gets done for him without him lifting a finger.

If a normal person looking into the sky sees something strange, its invariably aircraft, the weather, or interaction between the two, for example, contrails, which many conspiracy theorists are convinced are the result of a massive fleet of secret black ops aircraft spraying chemicals, as opposed to being the hot exhaust of commercial airliners causing moisture in the atmosphere to condense into what is a beautiful trail of moisture.

THey never heard of old Bill of Ockham. They always think the most ridiculously complex and difficult explanation if the most likely true. They'll always chose the Rube Goldberg "explanation".

My favorite UFO sighting: 10 years old, Nashville, Tennessee. Bright cloudless summer day. Mom is hanging out clothes in the back yard, I'm running around, bothering the dogs, being 10 yers old. I was a nerdy child, read every book I could get out of the school library and the park library a couple of miles away (I walked, not uncommon for kids in those more innocent times.). My favorite reads were about aircraft and flying, as my dad had been a gunner on a B-24 (8th AAF) during the war.

In those days we weren't unaccustomed to being boomed, as those restrictions came later. So when I heard the first boom off in the the east, it just meant "here comes something fast". All I could see was a silver dot, really high. But I wasn't ready for just how fast it was....boom.....boom...boom..boom.BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM.boom..boom until it disappeared in the west. All that was left was what I now know to call a "string of pearls" contrail. My mom and I were both stunned; we'd seen lots of cool flying things in those days (including four B-58s that came squalling over our house, looking to me like they were just above the rooftops, but thankfully subsonic), but nothing remotely like what we'd just seen.

Now we could have babbled about "nothing manmade can do that", or speculated about whether it was space men or demons. After all, it was sure enough unidentifed. Even now I haven't been able to find any data of any US aircraft in the early 60s that would have behaved like that. But airplane it certainly was, and the silly notion that anything we don't see a brand name painted on is something from Somewhere Else.

I think maybe people were simply more practical in those days, and less inclined to wild flights of fancy. They had seen war and poverty and hard times that we could scarcely imagine, and had no leisure to entertain ridiculous notions. That, and they seemed to have a better grasp of how things worked. I remember my granddad had a better intuitive grasp of what my my job as a software developer meant than a lot of younger people, who tended to see computers as either card sorters or the electronic oracles that they were shown as on teevee in those days.

In my observation, the typical UFOloony couldn't tell an SR-71 from a Sopwith Triplane, and would probably, being unable to identify either one, think they were both aliens or demons. After all, the Blackbird is really fast, and the Tripe is really maneuverable, and those are both arguments in favor of them being supernatural.

 

[Jipsah]

Have you not read the warnings in the bible to be on your guard and prepare for an attack from your enemy.

So you should think anything you can't identify is a demon. Giot it.

If you are on your own and a stranger is approaching you

Then he's a demon.

 

[Jipsah]

Ever hear of Project Bluebook?

Yep, back in the 60s. What would you like yoo know about it?

Long ago the U.S. military acted like they were going to look into the reports of many... in aviation like pilots and such, that reported seeing these objects.

What objects? This is right where you lot go foul. You have the ridiculous notion that anything unidentified is unidentifiable, and it therefore something spooky. That's simply absurd. Most, if not all, unidentified objects are identifiable if you have evidence. Hate to break it to you, but most "UFO" reports, upon investigation, turn out to be, not flying saucers or demons, but airplanes. Boring, yeah, put precisely what a logical person would expect.

Not all stayed silent. Thus the U.S. government in their FINAL REPORTS DENIED that any such phenomena existed, pretty much like you're doing.

What phenomenon? Seeing things you can't identify? That's as old as mankind. Unless we're blind, we have all seen UFOs, and so so all the time. They all flying saucers? HAHAHAHAHA, even you know better.

But NOW, since the Navy pilot incident of late (see YouTube link), U.S. government officials have come forward and admitted the objects do exist, but they gave them a different name instead of UFO.

Yeah, because "UFO" has come to mean "flying saucer",which is patently does not.

But if appears that they're not UFOs any more! Y'all have identified them! They're demons, whatever they may turn out to be! Demons' you see, have learned to disguise themselves as Boeing 737s or Chinese electronic warfare drones. (Neither of which, of course, actually exist.)

 

[Walk together]

Then he's a demon.

May be or a bad person or a good person but that was not the point. Can I ask you Jipsah being as you are a Christian a man of faith tell me what you think the devil and his fallen comrades are doing in the way of deceiving us can you describe the devil's plan to me, please.

 

[Jipsah]

May be or a bad person or a good person but that was not the point. Can I ask you Jipsah being as you are a Christian a man of faith tell me what you think the devil and his fallen comrades are doing in the way of deceiving us can you describe the devil's plan to me, please.

Would you like me to make up something like flying saucers? How about something real, like Islam? Or the idiot religion that is atheism? Not spooky-loo enough? Not exciting enough? How about the fragging out of the Church, and everyone scampering off to follow his favorite heresy? Too theological? How about syncretism within the Church, with people embracing every kind of sap-headed notion the world chatters about? Nah, no fun to be had there. We need us some flying saucers or horned demons. Rubbish.

 

[Walk together]

We need us some flying saucers or horned demons.

Why not you have mentioned many things that the devil can do but you seem to know the limits of the devil why can't he deceive us with the notion of UFOs and ET life is that too hard for the devil to accomplish.

 

[Juan777]

EVIDENCE is the difference.

There is enough evidence out there. You are choosing to ignore it.

Going back to the hospitals, perhaps cancer was a bad analogy. Covid would have been a better one because you have people denying the virus is real, hospitals are lying about people overwhelming them (ie in reality they are empty) and it's all a ploy to get people to take a nano-particle vaccine so people can have mind-control, etc..... People believe this UNTIL they or someone close to them got infected and then later got very sick, died or got long-covid.

You can challenge every evidence presented and every testimony as false so its a waste of time since some degree of open-mindedness is required to even go on that level. However, I think the best evidence is the ancient structures, such as Pyramids (not just in Egypt, but in Peru and other parts of Latin America), or ruins where the stones are carved in such a precision and are so heavy to quarry and carry to another location that even modern equipment and machinery can't even do that would point to signs, that the world as we know it is not easily defined. You can't hide the fact these structures exist in the first place or that that are impossible to construct in the modern age, let alone with people using stones and sticks.

 

[The Liturgist]

Terrible! The True Believers will probaby have to declare the Chinese to be demons. (OK, that's been done before.)

Yep, worry so much about nonexistent aliens (demonic or otherwise) that you end up getting p0wned your most obvious enemy. But then you just claim they were in league with Satan and Bob's your uncle.

No doubt. Who needs real demons when imaginary demons will serve just as well? Satan's work gets done for him without him lifting a finger.

THey never heard of old Bill of Ockham. They always think the most ridiculously complex and difficult explanation if the most likely true. They'll always chose the Rube Goldberg "explanation".

My favorite UFO sighting: 10 years old, Nashville, Tennessee. Bright cloudless summer day. Mom is hanging out clothes in the back yard, I'm running around, bothering the dogs, being 10 yers old. I was a nerdy child, read every book I could get out of the school library and the park library a couple of miles away (I walked, not uncommon for kids in those more innocent times.). My favorite reads were about aircraft and flying, as my dad had been a gunner on a B-24 (8th AAF) during the war.

In those days we weren't unaccustomed to being boomed, as those restrictions came later. So when I heard the first boom off in the the east, it just meant "here comes something fast". All I could see was a silver dot, really high. But I wasn't ready for just how fast it was....boom.....boom...boom..boom.BOOMBOOMBOOMBOOMBOOM.boom..boom until it disappeared in the west. All that was left was what I now know to call a "string of pearls" contrail. My mom and I were both stunned; we'd seen lots of cool flying things in those days (including four B-58s that came squalling over our house, looking to me like they were just above the rooftops, but thankfully subsonic), but nothing remotely like what we'd just seen.

Now we could have babbled about "nothing manmade can do that", or speculated about whether it was space men or demons. After all, it was sure enough unidentifed. Even now I haven't been able to find any data of any US aircraft in the early 60s that would have behaved like that. But airplane it certainly was, and the silly notion that anything we don't see a brand name painted on is something from Somewhere Else.

I think maybe people were simply more practical in those days, and less inclined to wild flights of fancy. They had seen war and poverty and hard times that we could scarcely imagine, and had no leisure to entertain ridiculous notions. That, and they seemed to have a better grasp of how things worked. I remember my granddad had a better intuitive grasp of what my my job as a software developer meant than a lot of younger people, who tended to see computers as either card sorters or the electronic oracles that they were shown as on teevee in those days.

In my observation, the typical UFOloony couldn't tell an SR-71 from a Sopwith Triplane, and would probably, being unable to identify either one, think they were both aliens or demons. After all, the Blackbird is really fast, and the Tripe is really maneuverable, and those are both arguments in favor of them being supernatural.

Well, speaking of the SR-71, that first flew in 1964, and it was a slower, two man version of the less well known A-12 Oxcart, which was slightly faster and was operated by pilots working directly for the CIA, and was the blackest of black projects. The raison’d’etre for these aircraft was the development of Soviet anti-aircraft missiles which downed a U-2 over the Soviet Union in 1960. We also had several supersonic fighter aircraft by the mid 1960s, and the B-58 Hustler and B-71 Valkyrie.

 

[Walk together]

Terrible! The True Believers will probaby have to declare the Chinese to be demons. (OK, that's been done before.)

Blind Fredy can tell the difference between an aeroplane and a disc.