If Theistic Evolution, how long did day 7 last?

[thomas_t]

Hi everyone,
(since I can't answer posts in the section where non-believers are allowed to post)...
a little challenge to everyone believing in the so-called theistic evolution, which I believe is untrue.
Ok?
So if day 1 to day 6 is said to have lasted many millions of years each, how long is day 7 - which is God's rest - following this line of thought?

On one occasion, I've heard a reply in the sense that it simply lasted shorter than the other days... is this how you think?
So why would God's word the Bible choose "day" for a long time span at the beginning of chapter and just a few verses later, "day" describes a rather short period of time? And who is supposed to understand God jumping from one meaning to another in the same chapter?

Someone else said he believed that God still is resting as of today. However, he's worked hard in the mean time initiating the flood, for instance.

I'm curious to learn what you think on this one.

Regards,
Thomas

 

[Carl Emerson]

We as believers are invited to join in His sabbath rest which continues for those who enter in by faith.

Heb 4:9
there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His

 

[DennisTate]

Hi everyone,
(since I can't answer posts in the section where non-believers are allowed to post)...
a little challenge to everyone believing in the so-called theistic evolution, which I believe is untrue.
Ok?
So if day 1 to day 6 is said to have lasted many millions of years each, how long is day 7 - which is God's rest - following this line of thought?

On one occasion, I've heard a reply in the sense that it simply lasted shorter than the other days... is this how you think?
So why would God's word the Bible choose "day" for a long time span at the beginning of chapter and just a few verses later, "day" describes a rather short period of time? And who is supposed to understand God jumping from one meaning to another in the same chapter?

Someone else said he believed that God still is resting as of today. However, he's worked hard in the mean time initiating the flood, for instance.

I'm curious to learn what you think on this one.

Regards,
Thomas

My belief is that the Ancient of Days the FAther and the Holy Spirit and the Word - Logos in a sense learned and evolved and got better and better and better at creation over infinite time in the past but Adam and Eve were created as part of a literal seven day period of time.

The Book of Job indicates that angels had already been created at the time of the creation of the earth so were the angels only thousands of years older than the earth.... or millions or billions of years older??? I don't know for sure.

Job 38


What supports its foundations,
and who laid its cornerstone
as the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[fn] shouted for joy?


Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

At this point of my near-death experience, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void.



I was in pre creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word / the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply, I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

 

[Job 33:6]

Hi everyone,
(since I can't answer posts in the section where non-believers are allowed to post)...
a little challenge to everyone believing in the so-called theistic evolution, which I believe is untrue.
Ok?
So if day 1 to day 6 is said to have lasted many millions of years each, how long is day 7 - which is God's rest - following this line of thought?

On one occasion, I've heard a reply in the sense that it simply lasted shorter than the other days... is this how you think?
So why would God's word the Bible choose "day" for a long time span at the beginning of chapter and just a few verses later, "day" describes a rather short period of time? And who is supposed to understand God jumping from one meaning to another in the same chapter?

Someone else said he believed that God still is resting as of today. However, he's worked hard in the mean time initiating the flood, for instance.

I'm curious to learn what you think on this one.

Regards,
Thomas

I'm not sure that many theistic evolutionists believe that "days" necessarily equate to a specific number of millions of years.

If someone actually believed this to be a straight forward and literal extrapolation, it could also contradict theistic evolution in that the order of appearance of life in scripture, doesn't align with the theory.

I don't think it makes much sense to believe in each day as sets of X million years.

As an example, God created seeded plants on day 3, then birds and sea life on day 5.

But in biology and geology, seeded plants appear in the carboniferous and are contested for ranging back to the devonian 350-400 million years ago.

Sea life, or fish, of course we're around back in the Cambrian 500 million years ago, while birds didn't appear until far later in the mesozoic, somewhere around the Jurassic or early cretaceous 120 million years ago.

Someone could say that maybe whales were the references sea creatures. Though whales are far younger appearing in the last 40-50 million years ago.

So really, to take Genesis literally and to try to extrapolate days to millions of years worth of time, doesn't really make sense from the position of theistic evolution. Because really, the order of creation in theistic evolution isn't a 1 to 1 match with Genesis when everything is taken at face value. So why would someone take the discussion further to suggest that 1 day were X million years?

 

[thomas_t]

God did from His

Hi Carl, thank you.
But since your Bible verse is in past tense, i.e. God rested... how long do you think day 7 lasted?
Regards,
Thomas

 

[thomas_t]

Hi, Komatiite
thank you for having given an insight into theistic evolutionism.
Days seem to be an amount of time that was billions of years first and millions of years later, according to evolutionists.

As an example, God created seeded plants on day 3, then birds and sea life on day 5.

but still you seem to see the teachings of the Theory of Evolution as being paralleled by Genesis.
So may I ask you... what is day 7 (Genesis) as taught by the ToE? Is there a break in evolution - and when did that occur?

You noticed that seeded plants, according to the ToE, didn't stop evolving by the time sea life started to evolve... or did I misunderstand something?

Maybe you think several days in Genesis happened simultaneously.

If I may challenge your beliefs again... if we are to believe the Theory of Evolution ... what is a Sabbath rest that occurs simultaneously along with day 3,5 and 6?
In that scenario ... what is rest that overlaps with work?

And how can days overlap in the first place - how is that according to theistic evolution?

Regards,
Thomas

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hi Carl, thank you.
But since your Bible verse is in past tense, i.e. God rested... how long do you think day 7 lasted?
Regards,
Thomas

The verse says 'there remains... so it is ongoing.

The past tense refers to when it began.

 

[Job 33:6]

Hi, Komatiite

So may I ask you... what is day 7 (Genesis) as taught by the ToE? Is there a break in evolution - and when did that occur?

You noticed that seeded plants, according to the ToE, didn't stop evolving by the time sea life started to evolve... or did I misunderstand something?

If I may challenge your beliefs again... if we are to believe the Theory of Evolution ... what is a Sabbath rest that occurs simultaneously along with day 3,5 and 6?
In that scenario ... what is rest that overlaps with work?

And how can days overlap in the first place - how is that according to theistic evolution?

Regards,
Thomas

"So may I ask you... what is day 7 (Genesis) as taught by the ToE? Is there a break in evolution - and when did that occur?"

There isn't really any break in the theory of evolution. It has been unfolding since the dawn of time and continues to unfold today. Most theistic evolutionists, to my knowledge, wouldn't take Genesis days as literal days, nor even would theistic evolutionists take days as a specific number of years. As mentioned before, even the order of creation in Genesis doesn't align with the fossil succession so there isn't really a 1:1 match between Genesis and evolution.

"You noticed that seeded plants, according to the ToE, didn't stop evolving by the time sea life started to evolve... or did I misunderstand something?"

Sea life predated seeded plants.

"what is a Sabbath rest that occurs simultaneously along with day 3,5 and 6? And how can days overlap in the first place - how is that according to theistic evolution?"

Genesis "Days" do not exist in evolution, only millions of years. The theory is built upon it's evidence. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[hedrick]

Hi everyone,
(since I can't answer posts in the section where non-believers are allowed to post)...
a little challenge to everyone believing in the so-called theistic evolution, which I believe is untrue.
Ok?
So if day 1 to day 6 is said to have lasted many millions of years each, how long is day 7 - which is God's rest - following this line of thought?

On one occasion, I've heard a reply in the sense that it simply lasted shorter than the other days... is this how you think?
So why would God's word the Bible choose "day" for a long time span at the beginning of chapter and just a few verses later, "day" describes a rather short period of time? And who is supposed to understand God jumping from one meaning to another in the same chapter?

Someone else said he believed that God still is resting as of today. However, he's worked hard in the mean time initiating the flood, for instance.

I'm curious to learn what you think on this one.

Regards,
Thomas

This question assumes one specific way of dealing with Genesis. As you may know, there are roughly three approaches:

• Genesis is historically accurate, and refers to 6 literal days. This makes evolution impossible.
• Genesis is historically accurate, but it is compatible with evolution. There are at least 2 ways of doing this: the days are longer than 24 hours, possibly representing whole ages; there is a gap in the chronology
• Genesis is not intended as a chronology, but is a poetic way of talking about creation that should not be understood as a precise historical narrative

Your question seems to presume the second option. I'm not quite sure which of the variants you're assuming. Personally I don't think there's any way to make Gen 1 or Gen 2 (which, by the way, give different chronologies) into an accurate chronology. I prefer the third option.

 

[thomas_t]

Hi Carl,

The verse says 'there remains... so it is ongoing.

The past tense refers to when it began.

While we agree that the opportunity for us is still open, I maintain that the verse says that God already had his rest (past tense). It seems to be like lunch: He had his, but for us it says "there remains"...
---
Hi Komatiite

Sea life predated seeded plants.

oops, I messed it up!
But I think the problem remains: if one were to interpret the ToE and Genesis as compatible... there would be the problem of days going on simultaneously, among others.
It is as you said: the ToE is not based on the Bible.
---
Hi Hedrick,

I'm not quite sure which of the variants you're assuming.

1

[Genesis is not intended as a chronology, but is a poetic way of talking about creation that should not be understood as a precise historical narrative

ah, thank your for sharing your thought. This is the option you favor, you say.
Can you tell me: in your interpretation, which are the stylistic elements in Genesis that clearly show it is poetry?
Those kind of divices you won't find in the report concerning Jerusalem's destruction (Jeremiah) or the texts about Jesus's resurrection (New Covenant).
By telling me your take on poetry in the Bible you could help me understand how evolutionists think about the matter.

Thomas

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hi Carl,
While we agree that the opportunity for us is still open, I maintain that the verse says that God already had his rest (past tense). It seems to be like lunch: He had his, but for us it says "there remains"...

OK understand your position - when do you think His rest ended??

 

[Job 33:6]

oops, I messed it up!
But I think the problem remains: if one were to interpret the ToE and Genesis as compatible... there would be the problem of days going on simultaneously, among others.
It is as you said: the ToE is not based on the Bible.

@thomas_t


Your propositions and conclusions do not make sense. I disagree with the idea that theistic evolutionists would run into an issue of days occuring simultaneously. I'm not even sure where this idea came from.

I agree that your previous post was in error.

 

[thomas_t]

?

Hi Carl, his day of rest ended that very day. For me, every day in Genesis 1 means 24 hours.
As it is written in the text.

Let's assume for a while that evolution is mirrored by Genesis 1.
If you say God's day of rest lasted say a thousand years time or even longer... then you would run into the issue of evolution occuring simultaneously.
Since evolution, according to the Theory of Evolution, always happens... you can't have a long break for God. Right?

Best regards,
Thomas

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK I understand your position.

I would need to check it out with our Greek grammar boffins but I think you will find that God's rest is ongoing and we are still in the seventh day of creation and are being invited to rest with Him.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So if day 1 to day 6 is said to have lasted many millions of years each, how long is day 7 - which is God's rest - following this line of thought?

Each day is half the length of the day before. Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe
7.1; 3.6; 1.8; 0.89; 0.45; 0.23. So the answer would be 0.115 billion years or 115 million years. This means the 8th day would have began 57,500,000 years ago. (According to Schroeder)

 

[joshua 1 9]

Since evolution, according to the Theory of Evolution, always happens... you can't have a long break for God. Right?

It is called an ice age. When "Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters" (Gensis1:2) This was when Pangaea was destroyed and continental drifting began. The ring of fire was created. Noah's flood is actually a shadow and a type of the flood that destroyed Pangaea. If you go to the rocky mountains, all the way from New Mexico to Wyoming you will find groups of dinosaur that were killed in a flood. One guy even built a house out of dinosaur bones. Because they were all buried together in a flood deposit layer.

 

[-57]

This question assumes one specific way of dealing with Genesis. As you may know, there are roughly three approaches:

• Genesis is historically accurate, and refers to 6 literal days. This makes evolution impossible.
• Genesis is historically accurate, but it is compatible with evolution. There are at least 2 ways of doing this: the days are longer than 24 hours, possibly representing whole ages; there is a gap in the chronology
• Genesis is not intended as a chronology, but is a poetic way of talking about creation that should not be understood as a precise historical narrative

Your question seems to presume the second option. I'm not quite sure which of the variants you're assuming. Personally I don't think there's any way to make Gen 1 or Gen 2 (which, by the way, give different chronologies) into an accurate chronology. I prefer the third option.

I agree with the first bullet for many reasons. The bible speaks of Adam being made from the dust then Eve from Adams rib....which certainly is evolution.
As to the literal days...the simple reading of Gen 1 seems to make it clear to me when the days are numbered and bracketed with morning and evening. Playing word games with yom doen't make any sense unless one is trying to force evolution or old earth into Genesis.

I've seen Theistic-Evolutionist claim Genesis is poetic... an allegory or even a parable in an attempt to fit evolutionism into scripture. There are many biblical reasons as to why it should be taken as literal. One reason is that's how the inspired authors of the bible present creation.

As to Gen 1 and Gen 2 presenting 2 different chronologies..I've seen the arguments and find I have to disagree with that view. Gen 2 is focusing on day 6 for the most part. It speaks of the creation of Adam and Eve and rolls into the fall of Adam and Eve in Gen 3.

 

[Job 33:6]

It is called an ice age. When "Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters" (Gensis1:2) This was when Pangaea was destroyed and continental drifting began. The ring of fire was created. Noah's flood is actually a shadow and a type of the flood that destroyed Pangaea. If you go to the rocky mountains, all the way from New Mexico to Wyoming you will find groups of dinosaur that were killed in a flood. One guy even built a house out of dinosaur bones. Because they were all buried together in a flood deposit layer.

Tectonic drift predates pangea.

Rodinia - Wikipedia

 

[joshua 1 9]

Tectonic drift predates pangea.

Yes the earth had a lot of history before the dinosaurs. The issue at the time was that Lucifer was thrown out of Heaven down to the Earth. "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" (Isaiah 14:7) He was angry with God so he tampered with the dinosaurs to get them to devour each other. At the time there was only one land mass. Noah's flood was a shadow and a type of the flood that took place at Pangaea when the whole world was involved. This is why the Bible begins with the world in a state of ruin: "Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep." (Genesis1:2) Some people say there is a gap between Genesis 1:1 & Genesis 1:2. They call this the GAP theory. Although when we do a study on the first word of the Bible: "Beginning" we see that In the Beginning the Son of God was given as a grain offering so that Heaven and Earth could be reconciled. We see this when we study the letters that make up the Hebrew words: "1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Genesis 1:1

When Lucifer fell he took one third of the angels with him: "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born." (Rev 12:14)

This is why man was told to "replenish the earth": " And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

 

[joshua 1 9]

force evolution or old earth into Genesis.

God has given us a lot of evidence to deal with. Science is the best explanation for the evidence we have to work with.