If the world is reconciled to God

[Hank77]

One statement is that God is already reconciled to the world, not holding their sins against them. (2 Cor.5:19; Rom.5:10-15; 11:15).

The second statement is the ministry that tells the world to be reconciled to God. (2 Cor.5:18-21).

If they are already reconciled, why tell them to be reconciled? Is it a contradiction? Or is the idea that they don't know the good news, namely that they are already reconciled to God & He's not holding their sins against them? Therefore go tell them. So that they may believe & be blessed by this happy message. And if all that's true, how is it that all won't eventually accept, believe & enjoy this truth?

You have received some very good explanations from others in this thread. I don't know how to convince you any better than they have seeing you have confined us to these few scriptures.
I'd like to know how you explain the many, many scriptures that disprove what you are proposing.
To build a doctrine, as you are, on less than 10 verses is very foolish, imo.

Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

One must be clothed appropriately for the wedding.

Isa 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Isa 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

 

[Noxot]

I don't think that anyone is denying that they have to have the right attire.

actually I think many Christians think all you have to do to be saved is say a few magical words. not all universalist think that all you have to do is basically what amounts to nothing, which slanders the sacrifice of Jesus and makes it appear to be an empty thing.

but it really depends on the persons spirit. for some this "it is finished" business means "God loves me and others and he supports me in my life" and for others this "it is finished" is used as an excuse to falsely justify yourself as you keep being the blind and confused being that you are.

in general we universalist see God as someone who is merciful, patient, and fair.

 

[GraceBro]

If the world is reconciled to God & He is not holding their sins against them, explain why the following verses do not support eventual universal salvation. Do not bring up alleged anti-universalist "proof texts" from other contexts of the Scriptures (e.g. Jn.3:16), but base your argument on the following texts, such as the meaning of "reconciliation":



Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

The answer to your question is at the end of Romans 5:10, where it says, "we shall be saved by His life." Jesus' death on the cross doesn't save anybody. It is necessary for salvation, but not salvation itself. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God, lost in Adam, made available through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The problem between man and God is not that we are sinners in need of forgiveness, but that we are spiritually dead and in need of spiritual life. Once an individual is born again, received the Holy Spirit (life of God), they are alive to God. Therefore, the life they have is an eternal life because there is now no sin that can cause that life to leave because of what Jesus did on the cross. Unbelievers are forgiven, but they are dead to God. Believers are forgiven and are alive to God in Christ.

 

[ClementofA]

The answer to your question is at the end of Romans 5:10, where it says, "we shall be saved by His life." Jesus' death on the cross doesn't save anybody. It is necessary for salvation, but not salvation itself. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God, lost in Adam, made available through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The problem between man and God is not that we are sinners in need of forgiveness, but that we are spiritually dead and in need of spiritual life. Once an individual is born again, received the Holy Spirit (life of God), they are alive to God. Therefore, the life they have is an eternal life because there is now no sin that can cause that life to leave because of what Jesus did on the cross. Unbelievers are forgiven, but they are dead to God. Believers are forgiven and are alive to God in Christ.

According to Romans 5:10 the reconciliation Christ accomplished on the cross has not yet saved anyone, since salvation is put in the future tense:

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 5:10 does say that those who have been reconciled "shall be saved by His life".

Therefore it could be argued that if the world has been reconciled to God (cf. 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.11:15; 5:9-11), then likewise the world also "shall be saved by His life".

2 Cor. 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Rom.11:15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

 

[GraceBro]

According to Romans 5:10 the reconciliation Christ accomplished on the cross has not yet saved anyone, since salvation is put in the future tense:

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 5:10 does say that those who have been reconciled "shall be saved by His life".

Therefore it could be argued that if the world has been reconciled to God (cf. 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.11:15; 5:9-10), then likewise the world also "shall be saved by His life".

2 Cor. 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Rom.11:15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior are saved. I am reconciled. I am alive to God. I am seated in the heavenlies. I am a citizen of Heaven. I am free from God's wrath. I am free from condemnation. I am redeemed. I am forgiven. I am holy. I am blameless. I am sanctified. I am justified. I have eternal life. I am resting in Christ's finished work. And so on.

It is not if the world has been reconciled, the world is reconciled. Paul is trying to get Christians to believe it. That is why Paul "implored" them to "be reconciled." He is telling the Saints to stop acting as if the forgiveness issue still separates them from God. And yes, the world "shall be saved by His life." For unbelievers, the offer of salvation is still available. For those who have believed, we experience the benefit of the reconciliation because we are now alive to God in Christ and cannot lose His life when we sin. At least that is the truth my faith is in. I know people see things differently, but for me, it is a settled issue. Thanks for your time.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

The answer is in the scripture you posted.

"we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."

God reconciled Himself to the world, the world needs to be reconciled to God and that happens on an individual basis.

In the Romans scriptures Who is Paul speaking to?

Yeeeeeeeeeeep. Free will and all that jazz

 

[ClementofA]

Those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their savior are saved. I am reconciled. I am alive to God. I am seated in the heavenlies. I am a citizen of Heaven. I am free from God's wrath. I am free from condemnation. I am redeemed. I am forgiven. I am holy. I am blameless. I am sanctified. I am justified. I have eternal life. I am resting in Christ's finished work. And so on.

Amen. That is good news.

It is not if the world has been reconciled, the world is reconciled.

That is the assumption on which i based the OP. I'm wondering, though, if that has a solid basis in Scripture. 2 Cor.5:19, for example, states that God was "reconciling" the world, not that He already reconciled (past tense) the world.

 

[GraceBro]

That is the assumption on which i based the OP. I'm wondering, though, if that has a solid basis in Scripture. 2 Cor.5:19, for example, states that God was "reconciling" the world, not that He already reconciled (past tense) the world.

I believe "was reconciling" and "already reconciled" are the same. They are both past tense. That passage says that God was reconciling the world to Himself "in Christ." It was at the cross where this took place. That's why in other places you will that Jesus died "once for all" and that there are "no more sacrifices" for sin. And it also says to forgive as God "forgave" us or forgive because we "have been forgiven." Both said in the past tense. That's why I trust what Jesus said when He said, "It is finished." Grace and Peace.

 

[Ronald]

If the world is reconciled to God & He is not holding their sins against them, explain why the following verses do not support eventual universal salvation. Do not bring up alleged anti-universalist "proof texts" from other contexts of the Scriptures (e.g. Jn.3:16), but base your argument on the following texts, such as the meaning of "reconciliation":



Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

2Co 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

When you read "we" or "us" in these scriptures, it refers to Christians, those who put their faith in Jesus. Jesus said many times, "If you believe in Me" ... "you will be saved." Not everyone believes.
Epistles are written for the world to read. The point of spreading the gospel is so others can be reconciled to God "through" (another important word) Jesus. You fail to grasp basic understanding of this message of the gospel that is crucial. Evil/sin will be judged and if one does not receive Jesus in their hearts and ask for forgiveness, they will be lost and judged. The whole meaning of salvation is that we can be saved _ from this judgment of being thrown into the Lake of Fire. I guess, that is deleted in your understanding.
The Bible warns the world of Judgment Day. Its very clear that the world was once judged with a flood and will again be judged with fire. You would have to delete or distort or ignore much of the Bible to believe everyone gets saved.
Its a wonderful notion, but blind. Satan will take some and has already. If one doesn't believe in Jesus, he cannot receive the gift of salvation - that is the main component of Faith. Some have it, some don't. You would have to devalue faith, as if it didn't matter - since you believe everyone gets saved.
Wow, I could just go on with hundreds of scriptures that prove this Universalist premise wrong. But you cannot discern scripture, not even simple words in the verses you gave, so how can Christianity from it's fundamental core reason with someone who in my mind does not have the Holy Spirit to guide them into all truth?

 

[dqhall]

Amen. That is good news.



That is the assumption on which i based the OP. I'm wondering, though, if that has a solid basis in Scripture. 2 Cor.5:19, for example, states that God was "reconciling" the world, not that He already reconciled (past tense) the world.

Paul was writing letters to believers who were known to him and who had knowledge of the Gospel. Paul's description of Christ's reconciliation does not explicitly guarantee everyone eternal salvation.

If one betrays Jesus, there can be no reconciliation:
Matthew 26:24 "The Son of Man goes, even as it is written of him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would be better for that man if he had not been born."

 

[Ματθαίος]

If the world is reconciled to God & He is not holding their sins against them, explain why the following verses do not support eventual universal salvation. Do not bring up alleged anti-universalist "proof texts" from other contexts of the Scriptures (e.g. Jn.3:16), but base your argument on the following texts, such as the meaning of "reconciliation":



Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

2Co 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

God loves all equally. Jesus died for all.

 

[twin.spin]

To answer the OP simply, because Jesus didn't teach "all" = "all inclusive"... eventually or through some corrective measures.
Since he didn't, then it is wrongful use of scripture by universalists to use objective reconciliation which Jesus accomplished when he died on the cross to usurp the subjective which God looks for in the heart after a person lives once then judged.

 

[Christo.doulos]

God loves all equally. Jesus died for all.

Psalm 5:4-6, "For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy those who speak lies;
the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man."

John 3:16-18, 36, "“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God...Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"

 

[Christo.doulos]

Matthew 7:13, "“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many"

Luke 13:3, 5, "I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish"

 

[Ματθαίος]

Psalm 5:4-6, "For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy those who speak lies;
the LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man."

John 3:16-18, 36, "“For God so loved the world,i that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God...Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"

Jésus Christ is so loving

 

[Christo.doulos]

Jésus Christ is so loving

Sure He is, but this same Jesus says, "unless you repent, you will likewise perish [eternal punishment]" (Luke 13:3, 5). And "And these [the unsaved/unrepentant] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46). "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy [eternal punishment] both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28), etc, etc. It is not all about the "love" of God, but also His Justice in the punishment of sins in the unrepentant sinner. This is exactly what we read also in the Old Testament, "The soul who sins shall die [eternal punishment]. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself" (Ezekiel 18:20)

You need the whole Bible and not just parts that you like.

 

[Blade]

for me key words "WE, US".. WHO is this? The WORLD? Or people that Christ found aka saved aka Christians? Its CHOICE. What the Cross did is for the WORLD. Its done... its finished. In the OT when He said.. I will remember there sin no more forever. The WORLD is that what He meant? Choice. You can walk back to that RUNNING Father coming at you or not.

Again.. who is WE and US in the verses posted? Not the world. John 3:17...MIGHT.. again.. CHOICE

 

[ClementofA]

When you read "we" or "us" in these scriptures, it refers to Christians, those who put their faith in Jesus. Jesus said many times, "If you believe in Me" ... "you will be saved." Not everyone believes.

Clearly it is true that not everyone believes. Not now, at this moment. In this we agree.

The doctrine of Christian Universalism also agrees with that fact.

Christian Universalism, however, states that all will eventually believe & be finally saved by Love Omnipotent, i.e. God their Creator, through the Lord Jesus Christ, even though many will be first lost & suffer "hell" in the afterlife.

This thread is not to discuss the subject of universalism in general or other passages besides those mentioned in the OP, as there are many other topics that have already done so.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 5:10 says that those who have been reconciled "shall be saved by His life".

Therefore it could be argued that if the world has been reconciled to God (cf. 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.11:15; 5:9-11), then likewise the world also "shall be saved by His life".

2 Cor. 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Rom.11:15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Der Alte]

Clearly it is true that not everyone believes. Not now, at this moment. In this we agree.
The doctrine of Christian Universalism also agrees with that fact.
Christian Universalism, however, states that all will eventually believe & be finally saved by Love Omnipotent, i.e. God their Creator, through the Lord Jesus Christ, even though many will be first lost & suffer "hell" in the afterlife.
This thread is not to discuss the subject of universalism in general or other passages besides those mentioned in the OP, as there are many other topics that have already done so.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Romans 5:10 says that those who have been reconciled "shall be saved by His life".
Therefore it could be argued that if the world has been reconciled to God (cf. 2 Cor.5:19; Rom.11:15; 5:9-11), then likewise the world also "shall be saved by His life".
2 Cor. 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Rom.11:15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Typical heterodox out-of-context proof texting a verse from Romans jam it together with a verse from Corinthians and someone can "prove" almost anything. One cannot use a verse from one book to prove something in another book unless you can show that both communities had both books.

 

[Ματθαίος]

God is love. Nothing else!!!