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Featured If the United States is Babylon...

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by akaDaScribe, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about Babylon but I think the USA is the father of all terrorists.
     
  2. Nick Moser

    Nick Moser New Member

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    You mean Israel and/or Saudi Arabia
     
  3. mindlight

    mindlight See in the dark Supporter

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    In the original I guess Babylon referred to Rome. Babylon refers to the global economic and cultural system and is characterised by a godless depravity. It is destroyed by the raw "might is right" power of the Beast. In the modern context it is not clear which city would represent the heart of the worlds financial and cultural centre. London , Tokyo, Hong Kong or New York are close to that though. I would eliminate Hong Kong and Tokyo as not being culturally international enough. So it is between London and New York in the current world order. But the bible does not suggest that this system is all pervasive. There will always most likely be places in every country that are not infected by its corruption.

    As to where Americans would go when faced with the takeover by this corrupt system of their country. How about Mars. Go Elon Musk! He may be an atheist who sees Mars as a refuge for humanity but is the desert planet also a potential refuge for the church?
     
  4. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Proof of that please.
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Rather, flee into the wilderness anyway, as in Revelation 12:6,14.

    For the future Antichrist's persecution of the Church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist sits in the future temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the Church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the Church (not in hiding) will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). So the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to Christians around the world.

    Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents different people in the Church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents different, divinely-protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the Church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15), they should flee to places in the wilderness east of Judaea, in the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the Church who will be living in places other than Judaea should flee to other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

    And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of canned food, bottled water, warm clothing and bedding, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (cf. 1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus Christ returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they should not carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
     
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Revelation 2:9b and Revelation 3:9 were referring to non-Christian, genetic Jews living in the literal, first century AD cities of Smyrna and Philadelphia (Revelation 2:8, Revelation 3:7), in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b). Non-Christian, genetic Jews are not truly Jews, in the sense that even though they are physically circumcised, they are spiritually uncircumcised (Acts 7:51), and so spiritually they are not Jews (Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 2:9b, Revelation 3:9). But all Christians, whether genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus Christ (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

    Revelation 3:9b could have been fulfilled in the first century AD, in the local church congregation in the city of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7), in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b). For Revelation 3:8's "open door" meant that Jesus Christ had made it so that congregation could preach the Gospel to the people living in that city (cf. 2 Corinthians 2:12, Colossians 4:3; 1 Corinthians 16:9), which evangelism could have eventually resulted in the salvation of the formerly-non-Christian, genetic Jews living there (Revelation 3:9b).

    In the first century AD, Satan's earthly throne was in the city of Pergamos (Revelation 2:12-13), also called Pergamum (in what is now western Turkey). Satan's earthly throne could be the Great Altar of Pergamum, also called the Pergamon Altar, which in ancient times was sometimes included as one of the seven wonders of the world.

    It may not be just a coincidence that shortly after the Pergamon Altar was moved to Berlin around 1900 AD, both World Wars were started from Berlin, or that "the Nazi-era architect Albert Speer used the Pergamon Altar as the model for the Zeppelintribüne, 1934-37. The Führer's pulpit was in the center of the tribune" (Pergamon Altar - Wikipedia) (quote has been deleted for some reason). When the future Antichrist is given power over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7), his throne could be located in the center of the actual Pergamon Altar, which he could move from Berlin to a main temple to himself (and to Lucifer/Satan) in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.
     
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    In Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the ten horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent ten major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These ten nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The ten part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

    But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand, and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other, could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the ten as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the future Antichrist.

    The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the future Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the ten major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

    The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

    This Baathist federation could be put together in our future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all ten of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    In Revelation 17:9, the seven mountains (or hills) which support Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" can be the seven hills of Rome. For at the time of the apostle John, who wrote down the book of Revelation in the first century AD (Revelation 1:1b), the Roman empire was the chief support for what Revelation's "Babylon" represents: all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). At the same time, in Revelation 17:9, the seven mountains can also represent seven empires (Revelation 17:10). For an empire can be referred to symbolically as a mountain (Jeremiah 51:24-25, Daniel 2:35,44), and what Revelation's "Babylon" represents has been supported by seven empires.

    Also, in Revelation 17:10, the seven "kings" can refer to seven empires, just as the four "kings" in Daniel 7:17 refer to four "kingdoms"/empires, Daniel 7:23 referring to the fourth (the Roman empire).
     
  9. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    But I'm not sure whether you actually believe all this, or are you on a diplomatic mission to pronounce such a disclaimer on behalf of your government?

    Since, on the contrary, it's entirely in your own interest that America should be destroyed, or reduced to the size of Montenegro in the aftermath of the Tribulation ["Every nation" means that there would still be American survivors, however few, in the aftermath of God's Judgement of the earth ------> Isaiah 24:5-6, Jeremiah 25:33, Revelation 7:9, 20:9].

    So, among the few survivors of the Tribulation there will be fewer Americans than any other Christian nation, which means that they would no longer rule the world after the Tribulation, but the few Americans left would be subordinate, and subjected to the authority of other Christian nations.

    Since there will be more Canadians, Russians, Finns, Norwegians, Danes, Germans, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians, and Greeks and Israelis than any Americans amidst the few survivors.

    Those other countries will come to the fore at the expense of America due to God's Judgement of the entire earth.

    Once God is done with America, it will never again hold the reins of political power, but will be subject to the authority of other countries instead.

    America would be effectively "Divided and conquered", and under military occupation by other Western powers, such as Canada, Russia, Finland, Norway, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Austria and Greece and Israel etc - Since the sparsely populated "United States" would need to be repopulated by other Western nations which outnumber the few American survivors.

    Since God will share the spoils of victory among his people, which are the "few" survivors mentioned in Isaiah 24:5-6.

    So, whilst the outward veneer of diplomacy is still important, it is all the more important to note that it's entirely in your long term interest that America will be destroyed to make way for other Christian nations, which are deemed to be more righteous than the U.S.

    This is the future geopolitical map of Europe and the entire world, which is the underlying basis of Eschatology, and Theology of the End Times.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  10. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    The USA's Statue of Liberty has a crown with seven spikes. The spikes are the planet's seven seas and seven continents. This fact used to be on the Statue of Liberty's National Park Service website until it gained so much attention, the reference was removed. This symbolizes the globalist nature of America-Babylon.

    7 Obscure Facts About The Statue Of Liberty


    More importantly, the Statue of Liberty symbolizes the USA as a nation of immigrants [per the related famous immigrant poem , The New Colossus.]

    What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

    Ancient Babylon was also a melting pot empire filled with diverse races, religions and cultures from the nations Babylon had conquered in war. Jeremiah 51:8-9 tells those captives to forsake Babylon and return to their native lands. This is exactly what Cyrus did after he conquered Babylon... he returned Babylon's captives back to their native lands and restored their individual national identities. Jeremiah 51:44 says the nations will not flow together into Babylon anymore.

    .
     
  11. God bless Joshua

    God bless Joshua Well-Known Member

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    The all seeing eye is actually a one eye only, where's another eye ?


    God punish him !
    Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

    It is actually about the coming antichrist who will rule the world.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  12. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    But WHO is the Antichrist?

    Perhaps Trump?
     
  13. God bless Joshua

    God bless Joshua Well-Known Member

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    the 8th king in his kingdom.
     
  14. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    You mean Trump's successor?
     
  15. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    The BBC News channel have claimed that the U.S. Economy would "grind to a halt" - Effectively destroyed - if all the immigrants were to leave suddenly.

    Jeremiah 51 is relevant to America-Babylon, both on a macro and global scale. As it may be symbolically interpreted to suggest that "America would eventually lose its global empire" due to its destruction by the Great Tribulation.

    Then, the territory of the "United States" would be effectively "Divided and conquered", and repopulated by other Western powers - Since the "few" American survivors would be vastly outnumbered by other Western nations, both in N. America and Europe.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  16. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    This is why the millions of illegal aliens will never be repatriated back by America-Babylon. It would take another conquering Cyrus to do that [Cyrus is also the OT archetype of Christ]

    Meanwhile, immigrants are also flowing into Europe. The EU is a harlot daughter of Babylon. Remember, America-Babylon [who arose unscathed queen of the seven mountains and seven seas at the end of WW2] is the "mother of harlots and abominations of the earth." Revelation 17:5

    My take on the unbridled global immigrant flow... it is the God-sent Gog/Magog globalist invasion into the lands of [former] European Christendom as punishment for their sinful rebellion against God.

    .
     
  17. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    By definition, the "conquering Cyrus" (and the Medo-Persian armies) was a similar ethnicity compared with the Babylonians. Since they are all Ancient Middle Eastern peoples.

    Therefore, one should expect America-Babylon to be displaced, divided and conquered by peoples who are similar to White Americans, which are the present ethnic majority in the U.S.

    Being the harlot daughter of Babylon doesn't seem to have made those countries culpable, evil nor reprehensible to the same degree that America is foremost in such regard.

    This is why Revelation 17:11 has effectively said that "Only one of the G8 countries would go to perdition, or be destroyed by God's Judgement over the earth" - Presumably, that country is America-Babylon.

    Now, Isaiah 24 has described scenes of widespread devastation and "cities on fire" in regards to the Great Tribulation; and presumably, it would be more than just one country which is affected by such devastation; but none more so than America-Babylon if we are to believe that America is indeed Babylon, whose destruction is long since foretold in Revelation 17 & 18.

    Since none of the other G8 countries would be affected as much as America will be affected it is reasonable therefore to assume that no other Western nation would be affected as much as America will be devastated to such an extent that its Reign will end. Revelation 17:11
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  18. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    The Medes and Persians were Aryans. Persia's modern name, Iran, originates from the word, Aryan.

    Cyrus' and Darius' Achaemenid Persians had a totally different type of religion and culture which was more related to the ancient Israelites. Like the Israelites, Persians believed in a type of baptism, resurrection
    of the dead and one all-powerful invisible god they called "Wise Lord." Darius called their god the god of the Aryans [again, like the Israelites, separating their god and their race from all other people.] This might explain why both Cyrus and Darius were overly friendly and helpful to the Israelites... but I also support the theory that Cyrus, Darius and the Achaemenids were actually descended from the Israelites that Assyria had resettled in the "cities of the Medes" in the 8th century BC.
    2 Kings 17:6 & 2 Kings 18:11

    .
     
  19. Cis.jd

    Cis.jd Well-Known Member

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    No i really mean the USA. The USA leads in the most bombings and invasions in the world; North Korea, Iraq, Saudi, Israel, Japan, China, have nothing on the USA. Even the American national anthem is a war song.
     
  20. Stonehaven

    Stonehaven New Member

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    Firstly, God has commanded the rest of the Christian world to abandon America's culture, politics and ideology and not to be influenced by such products of the U.S. media.

    Secondly, God has also commanded America's Christians to forsake all the aforementioned, which are effectively sinful rebellion against him.

    Thirdly, Isaiah 24:1 says that the Great Tribulation would destroy the entire earth, which means that every country would be affected, not just America.

    Fourthly, Isaiah 24:10, 12 have suggested that the devastation wouldn't be uniform throughout the entire earth, since on the one hand, "there will be cities that lie empty and people will lock themselves in their houses", but on the other hand, "all the buildings will be knocked down", which means that V10 and V12 are mutually exclusive; but it only makes sense if we assumed that some cities would be more devastated than others, or perhaps some parts of the city are more devastated.

    V10 seems to suggest that the devastation would only affect human life leaving much of the infrastructure intact (Since entire cities would lie empty), but V12 seems to suggest that the extent of devastation would affect both humans and the infrastructure (Since all the buildings will be knocked down and all the city gates will be smashed).

    Now, since the devastation wouldn't be uniform throughout the entire earth this is consistent with the theory that "America would still be more devastated than any other country".

    Such a theory is consistent with the idea that "America-Babylon would eventually fall as the world's preeminent superpower"; and the fall/destruction of Babylon is mentioned in Revelation 17 & 18.

    Lastly, Isaiah 24:5-6 says that "God will curse the entire earth and punish its people, since they have broken the everlasting covenant" - Which is also called the new covenant of Christ = Luke 10:27-28, John 11:25-26 and Romans 10:9 - but presumably, America would still be more devastated than the rest of the world; which means that the U.S. would probably suffer more carnage, death and destruction than the rest of the world.

    Assuming this is true, it means that there would be fewer American survivors than any other country, since those "few" people who survive the Tribulation are mentioned in V6, but Revelation 7:9 is constant reminder that those few survivors are still a "multitude which cannot be counted" and they represent "Every nation and tribe and people and tongue".

    For the Destruction of Babylon to be meaningful at all (Revelation 17 & 18), the Great Tribulation would need to affect America more than any other country - Since the entire earth would be more or less destroyed by God's Judgement in accordance with Isaiah 24:1.

    For Babylon to lose its position as the world's preeminent superpower (Revelation 18), and to be more devastated than the rest of the world, it would require the extent of America's carnage, death and destruction to surpass the rest of the world.

    [That the extent of America's carnage, death and destruction would surpass any other nation in Christendom, it means that there would need to be more Americans who "break the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24:5), and conversely, there would also be fewer Americans who accepted the new covenant of Christ.]

    Hence, there would have to be fewer Americans who survived the Tribulation by comparison with any other Christian nation, which are among those "very few" survivors briefly mentioned in Isaiah 24:6.

    For lack of numbers, the remnants of America would cease to be a superpower in the new heaven and earth and New Jerusalem - Since the few Americans left would be vastly outnumbered by every other nation in the Western hemisphere.

    Perhaps, America would disappear altogether as a nation state, since the few Americans left may well be assimilated by other Christian nations in the Western hemisphere.

    Whether or not they disappear altogether would depend on the sheer numbers who survived the Tribulation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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