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Featured If the United States is Babylon...

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by akaDaScribe, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    I'm not sure that I agree, but I will admit that our money is very, very creepy when you think about it for too long.
     
  2. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yankees Fan Supporter

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    I guess the whole pagan world is Babylon. The separation is more spiritual and not following the ways of the world, while remaining in and actively witnessing to a decaying world. Peace in Christ :).
     
  3. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    .

    Think about this... Jeremiah 3:6-8

    God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel and removed them from the Holy Land because those Israelites were unfaithful sinful whores who preferred foreign false gods to the God of Israel.

    About a century later, God sent the Southern Kingdom of Israel [Judah] into the Babylonian captivity as punishment for their unfaithful whoring sinful rebellion against God.

    My point is... in Revelation, Babylon is also called a whore... the same as God's unfaithful Israel people are called in the OT.

    .
     
  4. Andrew Jeremiah

    Andrew Jeremiah Biblical Christian Supporter

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    Well, there you go...your first error.

    The United States is not Babylon.

    Babylon is Babylon.
     
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  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that while the corrupt aspects of the United States (as of all other countries) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of the United States. For the U.S. just by itself does not reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor is the U.S. the only country where people buy merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor has the U.S. killed all of the Christian martyrs who have ever been killed (Revelation 18:24). Nor has the U.S. just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor has the U.S. been continuously supported by the empires of fallen mankind throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

    The ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the seventh vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

    Near the very end of the future Tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his ten kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all of the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all of our great cities, all of our magnificent systems. Let us break all of our chains of attachment to this vile, physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

    Of course this will be a lie. For at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat all of the unsaved armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15), a time period commonly called the Millennium. During that time, Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a New Heaven (a new first heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth), and a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem in order to live with saved humanity on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-4).
     
  6. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    It is sometimes asked: "How do you come out of Babylon, under a global definition of Babylon?"

    The answer is that you would have to flee from all cities, all areas with civilization. That is, flee into the wilderness, like the woman in Revelation 12:6,14.

    And, indeed, the woman in Revelation 12 represents the Church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). For she is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). And the moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the crown of twelve stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the twelve apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26) who have been placed over the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

    Her giving birth to the "man child" and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6) represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

    Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the Church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the future Antichrist's literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will occur during the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the Church during that time who will not flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities and will be persecuted in every nation, being imprisoned and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, Genesis 37:9-10 is not (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the Church/Israel is not clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the Church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the Church/Israel does not have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the Church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the Church/Israel does not have Jacob's twelve sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the twelve apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her twelve tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
     
  7. akaDaScribe

    akaDaScribe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok, so even if it's not the US, why would the 10 kings want to hit every major city on the planet? This is why it seems to make more sense that it was an actual place. Also it says the merchants will look at her from a distance. How would it be from a distance if every city was taken out. I understand that there is a false religion and a false prophet, but doesn't it really sound like they are talking about a place?

    As far as the US slaying the saints, we don't don't what is yet to come and we don't know what the government is really doing along the world. We do know that the US experimented on its own soldiers, and has been involved in the toppling of governments. We don't know what they are doing really.
     
  8. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    the 10 horns, among other things probably, refers to the 10 FEMA states under martial law, then they appoint the 11th horn as dictator.

    July 4, 2021 is when the Declaration of Independence (covenant) is 'broken in the middle of 70 '7' years (ie 245 years from July 4, 1776).

    Because God appoints governments, Satan wants to appoint govt's also. There will be an aspect of illegitimacy to the antichrist's government. A possible situation would be that the appointed 11th horn (probably a foreigner because that would have a transgressive aspect a la Deuteronomy 28:43 & US constitutional law) says to worship a ('living') image of a former US President. (imagine a fake alien Jesus coming down and saying to worship a robot Obama

    OR something like a 'bloodline Jesus' (under the lie that Jesus & Mary Magdelene had children, the lineage passes through the British royal bloodline, so someone like a Prince William or Harry (whose gematria is 666) coming over to the US and saying to worship a 'living' (TV) (robot) image of Trump.

    so, the 'come out of her' would mean roughly that there is 2 options: stay in an illegitimate evil government that has arisen out of the ashes of the former US (which would be the 'easy choice') or wait to be gathered by the 'messengers' of God (typically translated as 'angels').
     
  9. 2Timothy2:15

    2Timothy2:15 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo! It is the false counterfeit church system. And those deceived the most occupy her seats and call those warning them devils.....calling good evil and evil good.
     
  10. Daniel Martinovich

    Daniel Martinovich Friend Supporter

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    No it’s not. Babylon was the government imposed idolatry of Nimrod’s Babylon and later Nebuchadnezzar’s. It was banished by the Medes and the Persians because of Daniel and it’s preisthood found refuge in Pergamus and migrated over to to Italy where it was a foundational part of the Roman Republic.
    The BabylonIan preisthood and system of government imposed idolatry was not just the official religion of the Roman Republic and later it’s empire. It was actually a part of the government. Failure to participate was considered treasonous. Julius Caesar in his failed bid to become emperor settled for head pontiff of the college of the pontiffs. Mark Anotony was the last of the Head Pontiffs as the government of Rome at that time was headed by three individuals. The Head Pontiff was one of those three. Later when Octavian became the first emperor of Rome all titles including Head Pontiff were given to him.
    You can see the troubles Christians would have under this since idolatrous worship was mandatory. To not participate was in fact rebellion against the Roman Goverment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  11. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    :) the USA is not Babylon. This has is always about Israel.. and all around her. I can see how some would think it is.. but no.
     
  12. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    Isn't Babylon just ancient code for pagan Rome? Why try to apply it to any other nation? I think you lose the historic meaning of the prophecy in doing so.
     
  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    In my fallible opinion, every nation is spiritual babylon because they don't seek the kingdom of God as we are commanded.. They instead do works of flesh as they divide and create political factions. We are given the kingdom of God which has one King, with no political factions, or any kind of division contrary to Gods word.
     
  14. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And what "false church" is anyone supposed to abandon?
     
  15. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I love when people misinterpret the Great Seal of the United States.

    Annuit Cœptis is translated by the US Department of State as meaning "He [God] has favored our undertakings," not "announcing the birth." Yes, it has 13 letters. The number 13 appears many times on the Great Seal; it represents the 13 original states, not "depravity and rebellion." The year MDCCLXXVI is simply the year of Independence. "Novus ordo seclorum" means "A new order of the ages," not "New world order."

    Again, yes there are 13 tiers in the pyramid. That represents the original states. The eye over the pyramid is not "Lucifer's eye." It is the Eye of Providence, the all-seeing eye of God. In European iconography the eye surrounded by a triangle was an explicit image of the Christian Trinity.
     
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  16. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that you are totally unaware of the false church that is associated with the false prophet who is partner to the beast ?
     
  17. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    To refer to the Church, the body of Christ as
    Babylon the whore is like blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I would be careful with your absurd assessment. This is the body of Christ, the elect chosen by God, who are 2.42 billion ( 1/3 of the worlds population). I cannot claim for certain that they are all true believers but God chose the Body of Christ, called them, washed them, sanctified, justified and will transform and glorify the Church very soon.
    We are all saints and all sinners. Sin dwells in the members of our flesh, but flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven - which is why our spirits were cleansed. When we die we will be separated from our sinful flesh and our pure spirits ( white as snow) will go to the Lord, just as all Christians do and have done for 1986 years.
    All the false religious systems, philosophies, occults ,spiritism, mysticism, Astrology, basically ALL THAT IS UNRIGHTEOUS came out of the city Babylon. When God confused their language and scattered them throughout the world, so were all her worldly ways. So the whole world system is Babylon, the world apart from Christ.
    There is no perfect church, nor perfect pastor. If you think you are better than others, you lack humility. Take the log out of your own eye first ...
     
  18. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    The entire world is corrupt, every nation. The Body of Christ is set apart, saved. The spiritual city of God's elect is the bride. The spiritual city of Babylon is everyone else.
     
  19. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic

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    After WW2 when the USA [thanks to Oppenheimer's Jews] brought fire down from heaven, when much of Europe and Asia were in ruins... and the USA alone was unscathed... the US-led globalist empire Babylon was born. Immediately the symbolic "ten kings" who gave their power to the beast and only ruled temporarily [ironically term limits officially began with Eisenhower] have systematically destroyed the racial, religious and moral foundations of what little was left of the US Republic.

    .
     
  20. Abraxos

    Abraxos ...

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    1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

    You are quite right. It cannot be literal Babylon, because that city was utterly destroyed long ago and was never rebuilt. So Peter must have been referring to spiritual Babylon. Most commentators are in agreement that Peter was using a 'veiled' reference to Rome. There were reasons of prudence for not speaking too plainly about the presence of the early Christians in Rome as it was still dangerous for them.
     
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