• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

If the U.S. is such a free country...

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by pitabread, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

    +11,495
    Romania
    Christian
    Married
    Subtlety is for communists
     
  2. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

    +11,495
    Romania
    Christian
    Married
    The US seems to be shackled to its past, and half of the country doesn't want to deal with it.
     
  3. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    I always wonder why people consider the crime increase to be a result of covid and it's economic effect.

    Murder isn't typically profitable unless it's during the course of a robbery. The same can be said for attempted murder, assault, assault with a deadly weapon. Violent crimes can be driven by profit...but they aren't typically.

    You're correct of course that defunding the police turned into refunding the police in most cases (with a few exceptions) but that wasn't the only problem police were facing. The scrutiny they were under in many cases, coupled with incidents where they were being condemned by politicians and investigated for doing their jobs according to law and policy, resulted in a lot of cops being unsure of whether or not they could do their job without reprisal.

    I remember one statistic in Atlanta where a during a time span of two months (I think, maybe only one) they made less than 100 traffic stops and handed out less than 100 tickets. During the same span in 2019, those numbers were in the thousands.

    Baltimore went through a similar situation post Freddie Gray.

    I think the jump in violent crime is a result of the pressure they were under keeping them from doing their jobs as they would typically.
     
  4. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Some people definitely don't want to let go of the past....if that's what you mean. The past can't be changed....you either accept that it happened or soend your life complaining about it.
     
  5. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Violent crime tends to result in more time though. A high rate of violent crime compared to other nations is going to inevitably result in a higher rate of incarceration regardless of other factors.

    If I had 0 people in prison one year and I send 1000 to jail for murder...those people are still in jail 5 years from that year. If I send another thousand away for murder the next five years....I've got 5000 people in jail, they aren't leaving.

    If you compare that to people going to jail for a year or two for nonviolent crimes....5 years later the number of people in jail could be higher than it was at 3 years, or lower. It fluctuates.

    That means if violent crimes increases over a period of time (like the 80s and 90s) then so does the prison population....steadily. Nonviolent crimes don't necessarily have the same result. Lots of nonviolent criminals are released every year and nonviolent crime rates would have to dramatically increase to keep a steadily increasing prison population. Violent crime can stay at the same rate year after year to increase the size of the prison population. When the violent crime rate increases....the prison population increases with it.
     
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +5,236
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You misunderstood to context of my post friend. The person I was replying to was making a point that perjury is punishable by a 4 year sentence but isn’t a violent crime, to which I replied there are many nonviolent crimes that are punishable by being sentenced to prison.
     
  7. Bradskii

    Bradskii Well-Known Member

    +2,185
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Let the rest of us look at them as well. You must have studied this. What have you got to show us?
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +15,285
    Christian
    Married
    Laws are only obeyed by the law-abiding, so gun laws aren't the cure for a love of killing...any more than abortion laws are the cure for unwanted pregnancies.
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +15,285
    Christian
    Married
    Now, you argued with me long and hard in another thread that culture was not the problem.
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +15,285
    Christian
    Married
    You're presuming murder would always be committed during the course of a "crime of profit" rather than out of a more generalized anger of one's situation and one's sense of social victimization in a culture where life already has little consideration of value.
     
  11. Brihaha

    Brihaha Active Member

    372
    +412
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    My point had nothing to do with the free labor idea. Private prisons make money incarcerating people. It's reasonable to believe the more prisoners they can house, the more their profits can rise.
     
  12. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    In regards to violent crime?
     
  13. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Actually I'm presuming that a lot of murder happens without a for profit motive.

    Yeah I definitely don't think that's a motive for murder. I've literally never seen a prosecutor describe that as the motive for murder....nor have I ever seen a confession of murder where that was the motive given.

    I don't know where you got the idea that is a motive for murder....but if I had to guess, I'd say it definitely wasn't from actual murder cases.
     
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +15,285
    Christian
    Married
    Well, when a mugger pressed a pistol barrel into my right kidney and pulled the trigger even after I'd given him my wallet...what would you say was the motive?

    The "motive" is not always a point of the situation itself. When people get wildly outraged over minor issues, pulling a gun because someone stepped on his Jordans, for instance, the motive is not truly, "You stepped on my shoes."
     
  15. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Could be that the last time he did this, he went to jail because he left his victim alive and they were able to contact the police quickly. It could be that he was on drugs and angry that you only had 20$ in your wallet.

    You're not giving me much to go on.

    Motive in this context refers to the reason someone did something.

    It's the perception of "disrespect" from the act and a culture that values life as worth taking over such a trivial thing. In some communities, to let something like that slide makes you "weak" and deserving of being victimized.

    To use a term the left likes (but avoids applying to certain demographics) you could say it's an extreme form of toxic masculinity that glorifies violence and justifies its use in such situations by proving that you aren't someone to mess with.

    Again though, you aren't giving me much to go off. I don't want to assume too much...but the left has the goofiest ideas about crime I've ever seen. In some cases, like San Francisco decriminalizing shoplifting....it's pretty hilarious, obviously a mistake, and unfortunately going to continue to cause problems for the same communities they intended to help until they admit they were wrong and don't know what they are doing.

    Walgreens closing 5 more San Francisco stores over shoplifting fears

    Hopefully they swallow their pride before there's no legitimate businesses to be found in these communities.

    In other situations, like bail reform and parole reform, they're literally putting people in danger....

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...nh5awfojesnohu276mq-story.html?outputType=amp

    'He shouldn't have been released' Murder victim's sister responds to her alleged killer's release as part of parole law

    As for Oregon decriminalizing small amounts of drugs...I'm curious how that is going to turn out. It looks like it's just going to enable dealers to sell and profit more. That's really just my opinion though.

    It's hard to understand why the left has suddenly become empathetic to criminals and antagonistic to police. It doesn't seem like a strategy that is going to benefit anyone long term. Except criminals....it will benefit criminals.
     
  16. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Then I understand what you're saying but I don't get your point.
     
  17. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

    +1,105
    Hong Kong
    Skeptic
    In Relationship
    Any place will get the level of crime and drug addiction it is willing to tolerate.

    Mao was the world's most effective time drug counselor.
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    The decriminalizing of small quantities is going to be interesting. I understand the principle behind it....people saw criminal getting several years for small amounts of narcotics, they see addiction as more of a medical problem than criminal problem, and they thought putting someone in jail for this was more harmful than helpful.

    The problem is that this isn't the whole picture. A lot of first time offenders with small quantities were getting funneled into treatment as an alternative to jail because they were arrested. That won't happen now that they can't be arrested...they'll need to seek treatment themselves.

    The arrests of addicts also led to the identification and arrest of dealers. First and multiple offenders typically strike deals (also including treatment) to avoid prison time. Their information/assistance is key to disrupting supply chains. Big busts often start with the arrest of small users.

    It's gotta be a lot more difficult to catch dealers now. Realistically, a dealer is safe from arrest as long as he isn't holding more than the legal limit. A cop would have to witness the entire transaction to even have a case and then, it would probably be very difficult to prosecute anyone under the legal limit.

    So I'm guessing the effect of this legislation, while succeeding in lowering the arrest of low level offenders....will also increase the profits and number of dealers, which tends to carry the threat of gang violence with it. On top of that....I think it's also going to prevent more addicts from getting treatment.
     
  19. Estrid

    Estrid Well-Known Member

    +1,105
    Hong Kong
    Skeptic
    In Relationship
    A lot of unexpected consequences!
    You even left out the surge in illegal pot farms
    with all their attendant ills.

    To many of us outside the USA we get the feeling
    that great nation is simply dissolving.
     
  20. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +8,028
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    The feeling is here on the inside as well.
     
Loading...