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IF THE LAW OF MOSES WAS SET ASIDE , WHY ROM 13:9?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by Dan Perez, Apr 5, 2022.

  1. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    5. Honour thy father and thy mother that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest live long on the good land which the Lord thy God gives to thee.

    ... different purposes.

    Deuteronomy 4:1 And now, Israel, hear the ordinances and judgments, all that I teach you this day to do: that ye may live and be multiplied, and that ye may go in and inherit the land which the Lord God of your fathers gives you.LXX

    Exodus 20:1-12 And the Lord spoke all these words, saying:
    1. I am the Lord thy God who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods beside Me.
    2. Thou shalt not make to thyself an idol, nor likeness of anything, whatever things are in the heaven above, and whatever are in the earth beneath, and whatever are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God: recompensing the sins of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me, and bestowing mercy on them that love Me to thousands of them and on them that keep My Commandments.
    3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord thy God will not acquit him that takes His name in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. Six days thou shalt labour, and shalt perform all thy work. But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God; on it thou shalt do no work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy servant nor thy maidservant, thine ox nor thine ass, nor any cattle of thine, nor the stranger that sojourns with thee. For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all things in them and rested on the seventh day, therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.
    5. Honour thy father and thy mother that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest live long on the good land which the Lord thy God gives to thee.
    6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    7. Thou shalt not steal.
    8. Thou shalt not kill.
    9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, nor his field, nor his servant, nor his maid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any of his cattle, nor whatever belongs to thy neighbour.LXX

    Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind.
    Matthew 19:18-19 Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother, and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.KJV
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Same purpose.

    LOVE IS EXPRESSED IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAW NOT BY BREAKING IT

    Jesus is quoting from old testament scriptures in Matthew 22:36-40 from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18
    • Matthew 22:36-40 [36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law? [37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind (from Deuteronomy 6:5). [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself (from Leviticus 19:18). [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    Note: Jesus is quoting old testament scriptures here and also note that Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. This is what Paul is referring to in Romans 13:8-10 when he shows that we show our love to our neighbor by obeying those laws in God's 10 commandments that show us how we are to love our fellow man. Notice what the scriptures say.
    • Romans 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, thou shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling (obeying) of the law.
    Note: Paul is agreeing with Jesus where he shows that if we love our fellow man we will obey those commandments in God's 10 commandments that show us how we are to love our neighbor from the heart and that Leviticus 19:18 to love our neighbor as yourself is simply summing up obeying God's commandments (Romans 13:9). If we study a little deeper you will see that James and John are also in agreement with Jesus and Paul. Let's have a look first at what James says then John.
    • James 2:8-12 [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
    Note: Once again we see James in agreement with Jesus and Paul showing the love is not separate from obedience to God's law and showing that if we brake those commandments that are to do with our fellow man we do not show love to our fellow man and are convicted by the law as breaking the law which we will be judged by. Let's move on to John who defines what God's love is.
    • 1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    ............

    Summary
    : As shown above from the scriptures Paul, James and John are all in agreement with Jesus and state that love is not separate from obedience to God's law. Love to God and our fellow man in expressed in obedience to God's law and is why Jesus says; "On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    LOVE IS NOT SEPARATE FROM GOD'S LAW IT IS EXPRESSED IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S LAW BY FAITH THAT WORKS IN A NEW HEART THAT IS BORN AGAIN TO LOVE.

    According to the scriptures, love is not separate from obedience to God's law. According to the scriptures love is obedience to Gods' law from a new heart and is linked into Gods' new covenant promise. Let's look at the detail. According to Jesus love is not separate from Gods' law. Love is expressed in obeying God's law from the heart which is a part of Gods' new covenant promise written in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Ezekiel 36:24-27.

    This is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 that "on these two commandments" of love to God and man "Hang all the law and the prophets." Love to God and man is not separate from obedience to God's law. Love is obedience to Gods' law. This is in agreement to what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where he shows that love to our neighbor is obeying all of those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man. Paul agreeing with Jesus goes on to show if we love our neighbor as our self we will not commit adultery, we will not kill, we will not steal, we will not bear false witness, we will not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    So love is obeying God's law not breaking it. James also agrees with Jesus and Paul when he says if we show partiality in love it is the same as showing partiality in keeping God's 10 commandments and the result is standing guilty before God of sin in James 2:8-12. John is also in agreement with Jesus, Paul and James when he defines love as obeying Gods' commandments in 1 John 5:2-3. So no one here can claim to love God by breaking Gods' law. If we are practicing sin and breaking Gods' law that is a sign that we do not love God. *John 14:21 as love is not just a feeling separate from our actions *John 14:15.

    If we love God therefore according to Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:21 and John 14:15
    • Will we have other Gods?
    • Will we make idols and worship them?
    • Will we take his name [follow] him in vain?
    • Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?
    If we love our neighbour therefore according to Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:21 and John 14:15
    • Will we honor our parents?
    • Will we murder?
    • Will we commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
    • Will we steal from them?
    • Will we lie to them?
    • Will we covet what they own?
    Now if your answer is no then you agree with me. If your answer is yes what kind of love are you talking about where breaking any of Gods' 10 commandments is loving God or loving our fellow man? Yet the above is only what Jesus is telling us in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 (see also 1 John 3:6-9; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 2:3-4).

    ..............

    According to the scriptures, love is not separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

    Your may also want to consider that Jesus saves us from the inside out which is why we need to be born again *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4 into God's new covenant promise through faith to receive a new heart to love and walk in His Spirit *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4; Galatians 5:16.

    Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  4. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    The ordinances were for those entering the promised land.
    The 10 Commandments were given as a Covenant to the Israelites coming out of Egypt.

    Jesus gives the Ordinances for the Davidic Kingdom in the "Sermon on the Mount", running from Matthew 5:19-20--Matthew 7:28-29... which came from the Father:

    Deuteronomy 18:18-19 15 The Lord thy God shall raise up to thee a prophet of thy brethren, like me; him shall ye hear: 16 according to all things which thou didst desire of the Lord thy God in Choreb in the day of the assembly, saying, We will not again hear the voice of the Lord thy God and we will not any more see this great fire, and so we shall not die. 17 And the Lord said to me, They have spoken rightly all that they have said to thee. 18 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him. 19 And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX

    John 12:48-50 44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself: but the Father which sent Me He gave Me a Commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.KJV

    So, Matthew and John and the Revelation are all part of this Gospel of the Kingdom given in Galilee, from the time John was taken to prison, Matthew 4:12-17 through Matthew 24:35... to infinity.
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not really Lig. Your post here like your other one is simply ignoring the last few posts and scriptures provided in them that are in disagreement with you and, while quoting from my posts you did not address any of the content written in them showing the new testament scriptures that are in disagreement with your claims that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished. Jesus, Paul, James if you did not notice were quoting God's 10 commandments and applying them to the new covenant. You might want to also consider that both Paul, James and John state that the purpose of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. The purpose of God's law therefore is to lead us to Christ as sinners (see Romans 3:9-31) that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16 to obey what God's Word says *1 John 3:6-9. Also, according to the scriptures in the new covenant Gods' Israel is no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who through faith are born of the Spirit of God bu believing and following what Gods' Word says *see Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29. Gentile believers have now been grafted in *Romans 11:13-26. If you are not a part of God's Israel in the new covenant you have no part in Gods' new covenant promise (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-36 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Also, Gods' 10 commandments are not ordinances. An ordinance is normally used in context to a commanded ritual that is a demonstration of faith (e.g. circumcision, Passover and Feast days in the old testament; baptism in the new); or judgements. (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia). Are you really going to try and argue that we can love our neighbor as our self while lying or stealing from them? Think it through. If you love your neighbor as yourself you will not lie and not steal from them. The same applies to everyone of Gods' 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to God and our fellow man and why Jesus says on these two commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets.

    Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  6. Joy

    Joy Well-Known Member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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  7. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hi Maria!

    Lets look how are we known or not known by God according to scripture:

    1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says,I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. Jesus kept the commandments as our example and told us to as well. John 15:10, John 14:15, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:17-30

    Jesus cannot lie so when He warns us about this in scripture we should take note as we now have time to change our path, but we won't always have the time as Jesus is coming back soon.

    Matthew 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

    The teaching we do not have to keep God's commandments is not coming from God, Jesus or the apostles who teach us otherwise. Exodus 20:6, Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19, James 2:10-12, Romans 7:7, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 Cor 7:19, Matthew 15:3-9, Mark 7:6-8, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15 etc. etc.

    God bless!
     
  8. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for sharing!
     
  9. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    To do that, I'd have to be reading Paul's letters as though they were addressed to me. They're not, so I don't.

    Genesis 17:8-14 And I will give to thee and to thy seed after thee the land wherein thou sojournest, even all the land of Chanaan for an everlasting possession, and I will be to them a God. 9 And God said to Abraam, Thou also shalt fully keep My Covenant, thou and thy seed after thee for their generations. 10 And this is the Covenant which thou shalt fully keep between Me and you, and between thy seed after thee for their generations: every male of you shall be circumcised. 11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be for a sign of a Covenant between Me and you. 12 And the child of eight days old shall be circumcised by you, every male throughout your generations, and the servant born in the house and he that is bought with money, of every son of a stranger, who is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with money shall be surely circumcised, and My Covenant shall be on your flesh for an Everlasting Covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised male, who shall not be circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin on the eighth day, that soul shall be utterly destroyed from its family, for he has broken My Covenant.

    Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda. 32 Not according to the Covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, for they abode not in My Covenant and I disregarded them, saith the Lord. 33 For this is My Covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put My Laws into their mind and write them on their hearts and I will be to them a God and they shall be to Me a people. 34 And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me from the least of them to the greatest of them: for I will be merciful to their iniquities and their sins I will remember no more. 35 Thus saith the Lord, who gives the sun for a light by day, the moon and the stars for a light by night and makes a roaring in the sea, so that the waves thereof roar: the Lord Almighty is His name: 36 if these Ordinances cease from before Me, saith the Lord, then shall the family of Israel cease to be a nation before Me forever.LXX
    Jeremiah 31:31 = The Divided Kingdom
    Jeremiah 31:32 = 10 Commandments, and Ordinances for the Promised land.
    Jeremiah 31:31-32 = Matthew 26:26-28, Matthew 13:52.
    Jeremiah 31:33 = John 14:26 and John 16:13-15.
    Jeremiah 31:34 = Matthew 23:8-10, John 10:16.
    Jeremiah 31:35-36 = Matthew 24:35.

    Ezekiel 34:11-13 For thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I will seek out My sheep, and will visit them. As the shepherd seeks His flock, in the day when there is darkness and cloud, in the midst of the sheep that are separated: so will I seek out My sheep, and will bring them back from every place where they were scattered in the day of cloud and darkness. And I will bring them out from the Gentiles and will gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land and will feed them upon the mountains of Israel, and in the valleys and in every inhabited place of the land.
    Ezekiel 34:23-25 And I will raise up one shepherd over them and He shall tend them, even My servant David and He shall be their shepherd; and I the Lord will be to them a God, and David a prince in the midst of them: I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with David a Covenant of peace and I will utterly destroy evil beasts from off the land, and they shall dwell in the wilderness and sleep in the forests.
    Ezekiel 34:30-31 And they shall know that I am the Lord their God and they My people. O house of Israel, saith the Lord God, ye are My sheep even the sheep of My flock, and I am the Lord your God, saith the Lord God.(Jezekiel,LXX)

    Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent Mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches: I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    dikaioma = an equitable deed; by implication, a statute or decision:--judgment, justification, ordinance, righteousness.--Strong's

    Psalms 89:31-37 If his children should forsake My Law and walk not in My judgments, 31 if they should profane My Ordinances and not keep My Commandments, 32 I will visit their transgressions with a rod and their sins with scourges. 33 But My mercy I will not utterly remove from him nor wrong My truth. 34 Neither will I by any means profane My Covenant and I will not make void the things that proceed out of My lips. 35 Once have I sworn by My holiness that I will not lie to David, 36 his seed shall endure for ever and his throne as the sun before Me, 37 and as the moon that is established for ever and as the faithful witness in Heaven.LXX

    Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.KJV
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Once again you did not address anything in the post you are quoting from or address any of the new testament scriptures provided to you in the last three posts that are in disagreement with your claims that God's 10 commandments are abolished. This is a false teaching and is not biblical according to the scriptures. You have also not provided a single scripture that is in disagreement with what has been shared with you already from God's Word in the last three posts in post # 22; post # 23 and post # 25 linked or have you provided any scripture that is in support of your claims that God's 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant. It seems you are not interested in a discussion from your lack reply in addressing my post content and scriptures provided to you that are contradicting your claims and teachings that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Paul's letters by the way, as well as every other letter and book in the bible according to the scriptures, are given by inspiration of God and are written for our admonition upon who the ends of the world have come (2 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 10:11). Of course you are free to go out and believe as you wish and we can agree to disagree as I do not see our conversation going anywhere if your not willing to discuss my posts content and scriptures shared with you that are in disagreement with you (see post # 22; post # 23 and post # 25 linked). So I will leave what I have already shared with you from the scriptures, between you and God and we can agree to disagree because we are all only held accountable to God come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject according to Jesus in John 12:47-48. I hope our short discussion has given you something to pray about.

    Take Care. :wave:
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    A text without a context is a pretext.

    The other half of that same verse is: "and whatever other commandment there may be."

    He didn't leave out anything, rather he added everything.
    What a wealth of misinformation!

    1 Corinthians 11:23-26; 2 Corinthians 3:6;

    and if he wrote Hebrews, then Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:15.
     
  12. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    Some of the House of Israel (divided kingdom) had eyes that see in Galilee.

    Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them. 7 But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen. 8 And she weaned Unpitied, and she conceived again and bore a son. 9 And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.(Osee,LXX)

    (1 Peter 1:1) 1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people: that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Matthew 4:12-20 13 And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim, 14 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the nations: 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

    Matthew 13:10-16 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. ... 16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear.
     
  13. Ligurian

    Ligurian Other Sheep

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    False. I never said the 10 Commandments were abolished. They are a Covenant forever between the House of Israel and God, because Jesus restates them:

    Matthew 19:18-18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother, and Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    Matthew 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

    1. Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. (spiritual adultery = apostacy) (John 10:8)
    2. John 15:10 If ye keep My commandments ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's Commandments and abide in His love. (Revelation 2:20)
    3. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (folly, to no purpose, in vain) (Matthew 7:21)
    4. Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath Day: (John 7:22)

    The first 4 Commandments are what the House of ISRAEL OWES GOD.

    Exodus 20:1-12 And the Lord spoke all these words, saying:
    1. I am the Lord thy God who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods beside Me.
    2. Thou shalt not make to thyself an idol, nor likeness of anything, whatever things are in the heaven above, and whatever are in the earth beneath, and whatever are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God: recompensing the sins of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me, and bestowing mercy on them that love Me to thousands of them and on them that keep My Commandments.
    3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord thy God will not acquit him that takes His name in vain.
    4. Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. Six days thou shalt labour, and shalt perform all thy work. But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God; on it thou shalt do no work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy servant nor thy maidservant, thine ox nor thine ass, nor any cattle of thine, nor the stranger that sojourns with thee. For in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all things in them and rested on the seventh day, therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.


    The last 6 Commandments are what MAN OWES MAN.

    Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    "This is in agreement to what Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 where he shows that love to our neighbor is obeying all of those commandments in God's 10 commandments that are our duty of love to our fellow man."


    Galatians 2:7-9, Romans 15:8
    ..........Audience matters...........
    Matthew 10:5-7, Matthew 15:24
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2022
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Good point. Paul did not say

    9 For the commandments,
    • “You shall not commit adultery,”
    • “You shall not murder,”
    • “You shall not steal,”
    • “You shall not bear false witness,”
    • “You shall not covet,”
    are all deleted/ abolished / done away / legalism /works...



    RATHER he said "are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

    Which is another command from the LAW of Moses found in Lev 19:18.

    When he says "are all summed up,,, for love does no harm to a neighbor" he makes the point of continuation and summation... not deletion/termination/abolishing
     
  15. daq

    daq Messianic

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    Are you assuming that Paul speaks of the circumcision of the flesh in Galatians 2:7-9 and Romans 15:8? If so, that's all it is, an assumption: for he tells us what true circumcision entails in Romans 2:28-29 and what it means to be of "the Circumcision".

    Even if "audience matters", so also does rightly dividing between things of the Spirit and things of the flesh, and circumcision is used in both a good way and a bad way in the apostolic writings. The nations are not intended to remain gentiles but rather to be brought into the commonwealth of Yisrael, being grafted into the household of God, just as the Canaanite woman of Tyre in one of your other citations quoted above, (Matthew 15:24).

    And thus the final statement of Zechariah 14:21, "And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of YHWH Tzabaoth."
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello Lig, since you are ignoring my posts, I will be responding for those who might be interested in knowing why your posts and claims are not biblical or support your view that Gods 10 commandments are abolished.
    Yes you did but perhaps not in those exact words. Your trying to argue in this post and elsewhere however, that the first four commandments of God's 10 commandments are only for Israel and in the new covenant we only have to keep the last six commandments correct? - Therefore you are trying to abolish Gods' 10 commandments. There is not 10 commandment for Gods' people in the old covenant and 6 commandments for Gods people in the new covenant. How many commandments are there in Gods 10 commandments; 6; 9 or 10 (see Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 10:4)?

    Are you seriously trying to argue that under the new covenant Gods' people are free to have 1. other God's *Exodus 20:3 (1st commandment); 2. make idols and bow down and worship them *Exodus 20:4-5 (2nd commandment); 3. Use Gods name in vain *Exodus 20:7 (3rd commandment) and 4. forget Gods' seventh day Sabbath that is a memorial of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth *Exodus 20:8-11 (4th commandment)?

    When Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to man quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18, when he says that the greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart and all of our soul and all of our mind. How do you think we are to do that?

    Do we love God with all of our soul, heart and mind by ...
    Yet Jesus says on these TWO COMMANDMENTS of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets - Matthew 22:36-40.

    How does Paul tell us to love our neighbor as our self in the second great commandment on which Jesus says all the law and the prophets hang (Matthew 22:36-40)? Paul says; He that loves another has fulfilled the law, for this; that is if you love another...
    Now if Jesus quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 says that all the law and the prophets hang on the two great commandment of love to God and love to man, and Paul shows that loving our fellow man is expressed in obedience to the last six commandments of Gods' 10 commandments, what makes you think that love to God is not expressed through the first four commandments of Gods' 10 commandments?

    Under the new covenant everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new testament as a requirement and standard of Christian living that give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172.

    GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS REPEATED IN THE NEW COVENANT

    1. You shall have no other Gods before Me. - Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)
    2. You shall make no idols - John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14
    3. You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7
    4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. – Binding on all Christians today - Matthew 24:20; Hebrews 4:9 (Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days) Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4:1-9; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10
    5. Honor your father and mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19
    6. You shall not murder - Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18
    7. You shall not commit adultery - Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9
    8. You shall not steal - 1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18
    9. You shall not bear false witness - Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)
    10. You shall not covet your neighbors possessions - Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Timothy 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9
    .....................

    SUMMARY
    : As shown above by trying to claim that the first four commandments of Gods' 10 commandments that show us our duty of love to God are only a requirement for Israel (which will be addressed in the next section) your trying to abolish God's 10 commandments. James says if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them in James 2:10-11. Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets. Paul shows that love to our neighbor is expressed in obedience to the second six of God's 10 commandments. Love to God is likewise expressed in obedience to Gods' first four commandments which show us how to love God with all of our soul, heart and mind. As shown through the new covenant scriptures above. Everyone of Gods' 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as the standard of Christian living that give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. What your teaching here is therefore unbiblical and teaching against the very words of Jesus in Matthew 5:17-26.
    As shown in the previous section everyone of Gods' 10 commandments in the new testament are repeated as the standard of good and evil and sin and righteousness (scriptures provided in the previous section). Their purpose is to lead us all as sinners to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *see Romans 3:9-31 and Galatians 3:22-25. Your argument in this section is that Gods' 10 commandment are only given to Gods' Israel and I agree with you. All of God's Words are only given to Gods' Israel. So it is important to identify who the scriptures teach are Gods' Israel in the new covenant.

    According to the scriptures the name Israel is only a name given by God to the seed of Abraham through Jacob outside of the Mosaic law applied to all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says in fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham to make His descendant's as the sand of the sea (compare Genesis 22:15-18 with Genesis 32:11-12 with Genesis 32:24-28. The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" comes from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel (Genesis 35:22-26). God's new covenant promise first given in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and repeated by Paul in Hebrews 8:10-12 is only given to Israel not gentiles. Follow this all through to just prior to the second coming we read that Gods' people Israel are sealed with the seal of God in Revelation 7:3-8 and they keep all the commandments of God as shown in Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

    In the new covenant Gods' Israel which as have been shown from the scriptures is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says and is independent of the old and new covenants. According to the new covenant scriptures there is no such thing as Jewish and Gentile believers as we are all now one in Christ.
    • Ephesians 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
    • Galatians 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.
    • God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abraham's seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...
    • Romans 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
    God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...
    • Romans 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
    In the New Covenant all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
    • Colombians 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
    • Romans 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
    The New Covenant is for God's Israel...
    • Ezekiel 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.
    and again...
    • Jeremiah 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
    Paul proclaims it here...
    • Hebrews 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    ............

    The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

    ............

    CONCLUSION
    : None of your arguments hold up when examined closely under scripture. Non of God's 10 commandments have been abolished and God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who believe and Follow his WORD. Gentile are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-26. If you are not a part of the God's Israel then you have no part in the New covenant promise. Gods' Israel in the new covenant is no longer those who are only born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham, but are all those who have now been born again through faith in believing Gods' Word to walk in His Spirit. Once again your Israel argument does not work because in the old and new testament God's Israel is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow His Word. Therefore God's Word is for Israel which means Gods' Word is for all who believe. My hope is that you might be blessed and receive correction shared with you from the scriptures. That is up to you of course.

    Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
  18. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The law is "obsolete" and "Useless" rather than abolished or missing.

    Hebrews 8:13
    In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Hebrews 7:18-19
    For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

    Hebrews 7:11-12
    Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

    Hebrews 9:15
    Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

    Hebrews 9:9-10
    (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper, but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.

    1 Corinthians 13:8
    Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    There is no scripture you have provided in your post here that says Gods' 10 commandments are obsolete. That claim is not biblical and a false teaching. Happy to look at each individual scripture that you have provided one at a time to prove this if your interested by putting the context back in you have left out by selecting random scripture taken out of context to show that each of the scriptures you have provided above in reference to law is talking about the Mosaic shadow laws for remission of sins under an earthly Sanctuary and Priesthood pointing to Jesus under the new covenant. Your mixing up Gods' eternal laws that give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 with the Mosaic "shadow laws" for remission of sin under the old covenant that point to the body of Christ. God's Word does not teach lawlessness (without sin). If there is no law we have no knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4 see also Romans 3:9-31. Love is also not separate from Gods' law it is expressed through obedience to it which is why Jesus say "on these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets" - Matthew 22:36-40.

    Take Care.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2022
  20. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Which two commandments are we referring to?
     
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