If the Goal of BLM is for Unity in the Fight for Social Equality....

[46AND2]

It is difficult to express in words the feeling of need to show respect for the American flag to those who have not been exposed to military service. I, personally, would not choose to kneel during the anthem. And I do believe that it is disrespectful. But hear me out.

I am fully aware that the issue raised by sports players through their anthem protests has nothing to do with the military, or veterans, and the disrespect is not intentional. Nor do I believe feelings of disrespect are even present on their minds. But it is offensive to me, nonetheless.

However, I hold no grudge against those who choose to use this platform to raise awareness. It is their right to do so. A right that is one of the key elements that instills my desire to show respect for that flag. It is one of the things that the flag stands for.

So what I'd like to point out is that MY personal feelings about the respect for the flag HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUES RAISED BY THE PROTESTS OF ITS ANTHEM. The fact that I disagree with kneeling before the flag does not, in any way, mean I am against the BLM movement. Just as *your* protests have nothing to do with disrespect of the flag.

Do we understand each other? Can we find a common respect on the issue? Because I will tell you what...the only way that a real change is going to be made is through unity, not divisiveness. And that doesn't mean forcing people who have different views than you to come around to your view. It is accepting those differences, respecting each others' right to have their own views, and putting the divisive bickering about it behind us.

Because, after all, MOST of us agree that social equality needs work. MOST of us agree with respecting the flag and the anthem. No matter which side we are on. So why not respect each others' views about the protests and actually get to work on the real issue?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Most of the folks complaining about the kneeling are being disingenuous. They’re perfectly okay with other forms of national disrespect - even towards the flag - when it doesn’t challenge the social hierarchy that they favor. The flag, to them, is a convenient idol.

 

[section9+1]

Unity? Social equality? I'm snickering.

 

[Blade]

First.. please black lifes matter every life matters. But when a group like BLM is telling white people.. your racist because its born into you. And then learn.. some places are really teaching this.

I just watch more videos people.. so evil. Then a black woman saying "I thought black lifes matter? I'm black.. look what you did to my store.. which I am part owner" I've more stories like that. SOME news media...have yet to even show that.

So this group BLM.. its been looked into so many times. Its one not of God..its not for black lifes. Then when black people call the group BLM racist

 

[friend of]

I don't think they are going about change in a very productive or responsible or peaceful way.

 

[46AND2]

This was more or less the voice I would have liked to hear from Drew Brees when responding to the backlash of his initial comments. There is nothing wrong with his distaste for kneeling during the anthem. It doesn't make him the enemy as was portrayed in the responses he got. I think both sides could benefit from a little "education."

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

So, am I to understand that we're all ok with a predominant number of deaths, while being confined, to black people is ok?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[46AND2]

Hi all,

So, am I to understand that we're all ok with a predominant number of deaths, while being confined, to black people is ok?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Not sure where you get that impression from me.

 

[Jok]

Because I will tell you what...the only way that a real change is going to be made is through unity, not divisiveness.

In that case, the only way that real change is going to be made is by convincing the vast majority of people that the media plays us against each other on a daily basis. Knowing the problem is half the solution. You can’t have the majority of people believing in an institution of division, and then hope that unity will somehow result from it.

 

[46AND2]

In that case, the only way that real change is going to be made is by convincing the vast majority of people that the media plays us against each other on a daily basis. Knowing the problem is half the solution. You can’t have the majority of people believing in an institution of division, and then hope that unity will somehow result from it.

Not just the media. Trump feeds the flames as much or more than anybody.

 

[DaisyDay]

It is difficult to express in words the feeling of need to show respect for the American flag to those who have not been exposed to military service. I, personally, would not choose to kneel during the anthem. And I do believe that it is disrespectful. But hear me out.

I am fully aware that the issue raised by sports players through their anthem protests has nothing to do with the military, or veterans, and the disrespect is not intentional. Nor do I believe feelings of disrespect are even present on their minds. But it is offensive to me, nonetheless.

However, I hold no grudge against those who choose to use this platform to raise awareness. It is their right to do so. A right that is one of the key elements that instills my desire to show respect for that flag. It is one of the things that the flag stands for.

So what I'd like to point out is that MY personal feelings about the respect for the flag HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ISSUES RAISED BY THE PROTESTS OF ITS ANTHEM. The fact that I disagree with kneeling before the flag does not, in any way, mean I am against the BLM movement. Just as *your* protests have nothing to do with disrespect of the flag.

Do we understand each other? Can we find a common respect on the issue? Because I will tell you what...the only way that a real change is going to be made is through unity, not divisiveness. And that doesn't mean forcing people who have different views than you to come around to your view. It is accepting those differences, respecting each others' right to have their own views, and putting the divisive bickering about it behind us.

Because, after all, MOST of us agree that social equality needs work. MOST of us agree with respecting the flag and the anthem. No matter which side we are on. So why not respect each others' views about the protests and actually get to work on the real issue?

What is disrespectful about kneeling? Kneeling is an act of contrition and humility.

I don't think they are going about change in a very productive or responsible or peaceful way.

How is kneeling quietly anything other than peaceful?

 

[46AND2]

Kneeling is an act of contrition and humility.

Not when used as a protest, it isn't. In the military, standing at attention, and saluting, is an act of contrition and humility. Kneeling is defiance.

 

[DaisyDay]

Not when used as a protest, it isn't. In the military, standing at attention, and saluting, is an act of contrition and humility. Kneeling is defiance.

Kneeling is the epitome of humility.

 

[46AND2]

Kneeling is the epitome of humility.

Ok. I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

It is difficult to express in words the feeling of need to show respect for the American flag to those who have not been exposed to military service. I, personally, would not choose to kneel during the anthem. And I do believe that it is disrespectful. But hear me out.

In understand and accept your position. I too would not kneel during our National Anthem.

I am fully aware that the issue raised by sports players through their anthem protests has nothing to do with the military, or veterans, and the disrespect is not intentional. Nor do I believe feelings of disrespect are even present on their minds. But it is offensive to me, nonetheless.

Verizon wireless use to have a commercial with this guy saying "Can you hear me now?" over and over. You are right it had nothing to do with any of those things you listed. It was about being heard. For too many years various people has been speaking out about police increasing brutality against black Americans, especially black men.But their protests fell on deaf ears and the violence continually got worse.So, when the players took the knee, they were in effect saying to the whole nation "Can you hear me now?". But no! The nation said loudly that "What hurts you does not matter to us." "What is killing your sons on the street, and your daughters does not matter so you keep quiet!". The nation said"You don't belong here so go back to where you came from." I know this may not refer to you personally. Those guys were not saying that they disrespect anyone Nor were they tryng to offend you or anyone else. They just want their grievance to be heard.Their grievance is valid and the nation would do well to validate it.

However, I hold no grudge against those who choose to use this platform to raise awareness. It is their right to do so. A right that is one of the key elements that instills my desire to show respect for that flag. It is one of the things that the flag stands for.

I agree. The rights the flag represents should say that they are for everyone. But you know police wear the flag on their uniforms but they brutalize and kill in the name of the nation the flag represents. They brutalize every race, but black people, in too many cases, are not surviving encounters with those who suppose to serv and protect. That is not right.

Do we understand each other? Can we find a common respect on the issue? Because I will tell you what...the only way that a real change is going to be made is through unity, not divisiveness. And that doesn't mean forcing people who have different views than you to come around to your view. It is accepting those differences, respecting each others' right to have their own views, and putting the divisive bickering about it behind us.

Common ground? Hopefully there can be some agreement. Change has to happen, for all of our sake.You know,in WW2, whites,black,Latino, and indigenous people fought under the same flag. But guess what? The ticker tape parades were for white men. Black men were veterans, but when they came home, they were brutalized.How many people knew about the Tuskegee Airmen? Yes, let us tell the whole truth. What I hear that is offensive to a lot of blacks is ,white folks bragging and touting the exploits of their relatives in the war in a condescending manner as if it was only white men that won the war! So maybe,just maybe mind you, the platform used by the players has multiple indications.

Because, after all, MOST of us agree that social equality needs work. MOST of us agree with respecting the flag and the anthem. No matter which side we are on. So why not respect each others' views about the protests and actually get to work on the real issue?

Yes indeed!I agree. Most black mothers worry about their sons surviving a trip to the store or surviving a routine traffic stop. There has been no "disrespect" to the flag . Only the cry out loud, "Can you hear me now?"

 

[miamited]

Not sure where you get that impression from me.

Hi 46&2,

Well, the BLM movement isn't about kneeling, as you say. In 1980 Arthur McDuffie died at the hands of the police as he was being confined. He was an insurance salesman who had done nothing to deserve the treatment he got. He had tried to outrun the police on a motorcycle, but once stopped he put up his hands and said, "I give up." At that point a metro dade officer pulled off his helmet and then several officers came up and began beating him about the head with their heavy kel-lite flashlights. One officer seemed quite pleased that he had kicked the man in the head and said "I got my punch in". Arthur McDuffie died that night by being beaten to death. He did not put up any resistance, according to witnesses, once he had been stopped.

According to 'mappingpoliceviolence.org' more than 100 black men, who were unarmed at the time they were killed, died at the hands of the police in 2015. That's just one year. We don't see such numbers among white detainees. Yes, more white men are killed by police on the average, but they are not unarmed men. They are usually shooting it out or in some other way threatening the police or the public. So, for a great number of years, we find over and over again, that black men, after being detained and restrained, are then beaten or, as in the case of George Floyd and even recently Manuel
Ellis, are suffocated by having their necks or chests restricted so that they can't breathe.

This isn't right!!!!! Yes, I have no problem with police shooting dead someone who is threatening their life or the public, but these men all died after being stopped and detained and are generally in restraints when they die. This isn't right!!!!d Our police need to be better trained to not take to heart a suspect's aggressiveness...after it has been stopped. Our police officers need to be better trained that restricting someone's breathing is not a just way to subdue them. ESPECIALLY after they have already been subdued. We just have too many angry police officers who can't seem to let go of their emotions after a suspect has been subdued. So once they get the subject subdued, they then proceed to beat and choke a pretty helpless person. This isn't right!!!

That's what the BLM movement is addressing and I believe it needs to be addressed. Now, the police forces of America could have long taken on the responsibility of training their officers better...but they didn't. So black people are left now, some 40 years after Arthur McDuffie was beaten to death by police, still trying to figure out how they can get the police to treat them with more respect, even if they are breaking a law. They just can't seem to get the powers that control such actions to understand that police officers shouldn't be killing anyone that has already been subdued and restrained. So, here we are. Now it has happened so often and with such regularity that black people, and white people, are fed up with the raw injustice of what's being done to black men seemingly much more than any white group.

Police need to be trained that once a suspect is subdued and restrained, step back and take a deep breath and calm your emotions and handle the suspect in a professional manner that respects his right to live over some petty crime. But there seem to be far to many police officers who can't seem to do that. They should be put on desk jobs or worked out of the job. Yes, being a police officer is a tough job sometimes, but as with any job, there need to be rules for doing that job. One of those rules should be a cardinal rule that once any suspect has been restrained, let up!!!

There was a video just the other day where two officers had grappled a protester to the ground. After putting handcuffs on the man, you can hear a bystander telling the officer to get his knee off of the suspects neck. The officer doesn't move. Finally his partner, pushes his knee off of the suspects neck and the offending officer doesn't look particularly happy that his partner did that. Why? Why did the offending officer feel it necessary to keep his knee on the neck of the protester even after he had been restrained? That attitude needs to change!

So for me, until the police are trained better, I think we should do whatever we can to bring light to the situation. Unfortunately, over the last 40 years, just talking about it doesn't seem to have made much headway.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[46AND2]

Hi 46&2,

Well, the BLM movement isn't about kneeling, as you say. In 1980 Arthur McDuffie died at the hands of the police as he was being confined. He was an insurance salesman who had done nothing to deserve the treatment he got. He had tried to outrun the police on a motorcycle, but once stopped he put up his hands and said, "I give up." At that point a metro dade officer pulled off his helmet and then several officers came up and began beating him about the head with their heavy kel-lite flashlights. One officer seemed quite pleased that he had kicked the man in the head and said "I got my punch in". Arthur McDuffie died that night by being beaten to death. He did not put up any resistance, according to witnesses, once he had been stopped.

According to 'mappingpoliceviolence.org' more than 100 black men, who were unarmed at the time they were killed, died at the hands of the police in 2015. That's just one year. We don't see such numbers among white detainees. Yes, more white men are killed by police on the average, but they are not unarmed men. They are usually shooting it out or in some other way threatening the police or the public. So, for a great number of years, we find over and over again, that black men, after being detained and restrained, are then beaten or, as in the case of George Floyd and even recently Manuel
Ellis, are suffocated by having their necks or chests restricted so that they can't breathe.

This isn't right!!!!! Yes, I have no problem with police shooting dead someone who is threatening their life or the public, but these men all died after being stopped and detained and are generally in restraints when they die. This isn't right!!!!d Our police need to be better trained to not take to heart a suspect's aggressiveness...after it has been stopped. Our police officers need to be better trained that restricting someone's breathing is not a just way to subdue them. ESPECIALLY after they have already been subdued. We just have too many angry police officers who can't seem to let go of their emotions after a suspect has been subdued. So once they get the subject subdued, they then proceed to beat and choke a pretty helpless person. This isn't right!!!

That's what the BLM movement is addressing and I believe it needs to be addressed. Now, the police forces of America could have long taken on the responsibility of training their officers better...but they didn't. So black people are left now, some 40 years after Arthur McDuffie was beaten to death by police, still trying to figure out how they can get the police to treat them with more respect, even if they are breaking a law. They just can't seem to get the powers that control such actions to understand that police officers shouldn't be killing anyone that has already been subdued and restrained. So, here we are. Now it has happened so often and with such regularity that black people, and white people, are fed up with the raw injustice of what's being done to black men seemingly much more than any white group.

Police need to be trained that once a suspect is subdued and restrained, step back and take a deep breath and calm your emotions and handle the suspect in a professional manner that respects his right to live over some petty crime. But there seem to be far to many police officers who can't seem to do that. They should be put on desk jobs or worked out of the job. Yes, being a police officer is a tough job sometimes, but as with any job, there need to be rules for doing that job. One of those rules should be a cardinal rule that once any suspect has been restrained, let up!!!

There was a video just the other day where two officers had grappled a protester to the ground. After putting handcuffs on the man, you can hear a bystander telling the officer to get his knee off of the suspects neck. The officer doesn't move. Finally his partner, pushes his knee off of the suspects neck and the offending officer doesn't look particularly happy that his partner did that. Why? Why did the offending officer feel it necessary to keep his knee on the neck of the protester even after he had been restrained? That attitude needs to change!

So for me, until the police are trained better, I think we should do whatever we can to bring light to the situation. Unfortunately, over the last 40 years, just talking about it doesn't seem to have made much headway.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

And I agree with all of that. My objections to the kneeling during the anthem, as i said in the OP, have NOTHING to do with the movement itself. I wholeheartedly agree that change is required. I have seen the inequality myself.

 

[miamited]

Not when used as a protest, it isn't. In the military, standing at attention, and saluting, is an act of contrition and humility. Kneeling is defiance.

Hi46&2,

You seem to have wasted some of your learning in the military. I served also and standing at attention and saluting has never been an act of contrition and humility. Standing at attention and saluting is an act of respect and authority. Did you ever salute an enlisted man every time you came face to face with him? Of course not. Because the military practice of attention and salute is one of showing respect for a position of authority. Far from the standard definition of contrition and humility.

contrition: the state of feeling remorseful and penitent.
humility: a modest or low view of one's own importance; humbleness.

You can look it up in the military code of conduct and you won't find any explanation that saluting or standing at attention is about being remorseful and penitent or having a low view of one's own importance. It is all about respect for authority which is the mantra of any military service.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

And I agree with all of that. My objections to the kneeling during the anthem, as i said in the OP, have NOTHING to do with the movement itself. I wholeheartedly agree that change is required. I have seen the inequality myself.

Hi 46&2,

So, why don't your reappraise your situation and allow that since normal ways of dealing with this issue haven't seemed to work, maybe showing some form of civil disrespect to authority might do it. Let's kneel for our national anthem until all the police departments across this great nation take seriously their position of authority granted to them by our constitution, to treat detained suspects with at least enough care to let them live through their arrest.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[46AND2]

Hi46&2,

You seem to have wasted some of your learning in the military. I served also and standing at attention and saluting has never been an act of contrition and humility. Standing at attention and saluting is an act of respect and authority. Did you ever salute an enlisted man every time you came face to face with him? Of course not. Because the military practice of attention and salute is one of showing respect for a position of authority. Far from the standard definition of contrition and humility.

contrition: the state of feeling remorseful and penitent.
humility: a modest or low view of one's own importance; humbleness.

You can look it up in the military code of conduct and you won't find any explanation that saluting or standing at attention is about being remorseful and penitent or having a low view of one's own importance. It is all about respect for authority which is the mantra of any military service.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Is not respect for authority, by necessity, having a modest view of one's self importance?

I take your meaning for contrition. I should have considered the meaning more in my reply; it was simply parroted as a rebuttal to the idea that kneeling is ALWAYS contrite and humble.