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If the Bible has errors or discrepancies how am I supposed to believe in Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Lord'sWarrior, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    The KJV is one of only few Bibles that commands you to study (the Word) to show yourself approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15).

    "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15) (KJV).

    The other Bibles do not want you to know that.


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  2. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    I didn't say that's all he does, but he will solve your problems for you if you let him.
     
  3. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    The WORD came before the Bible. Tradition saw to it that the Gospel was preached well before any books were assembled into a 'Bible'
     
  4. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Just because an idea sounds nice is not a valid basis for translation. You have to look at what the manuscripts ACTUALLY SAY.

    What the KJV translates as "study" is "spoudazo" in Greek. Here is what it means:
    Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV) (it's a link to the lexicon definition, I don't know why, but that site makes every link say "Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)" )

    Note that out of 11 times that it appears in the New Testament, 2 Timothy is the ONLY place the KJV translates it "study". Every other place it means to be eager, earnest, to diligently strive for something. So why change the meaning for this one verse? Nothing in the context supports "study" over how other Bibles translate it.

    The claim that "other Bibles don't want you to know that," is utter nonsense. Their translation is based on what the Greek says, not on some conspiracy theory.

    Can you explain why it should be translated as "study"? You're going to have to do better than, "because the KJV says so."
     
  5. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    You stuck that "(the Word)" in there yourself. The KJV does not say that. You just did your own bad translation.

    You also betrayed one of the big problems with the KJV--you yourself failed to understand the archaic English.

    My grandparents were old enough and "country" enough to still use archaic English, and they used "study" the way the KJV translators did. The word "study" means "pay attention" or "be diligent." Most people the KJV was written for didn't even know how to read.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You are thinking this way because you are not readiing the context.

    "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers." (2 Timothy 2:14).

    In fact, you are proving my point that we do not believe in the same Word of God.
    I believe God commands me to study the Word of God, a workman that be not ashamed.
    A workman in doing what?
    Your own thing?
    No. A workman in doing what God's Word says.

    Think, my friend.


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  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I never denied that the words of God existed before the book of Job and the Torah (the five books of Moses). God verbally commanded man to do His will. His faithful few followed what God told them to do.

    But the Scriptures existed in Hebrew (i.e. not the whole Bible obviously) during the time of the Old Testament. The New Testament Scriptures also existed at one point in the past (after Revelation was written) and the world language at that time was Greek.

    Anyways, after the close of Revelation, no more words of God (of any kind) was to be added (Revelation 22:18).


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  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Then what is 2 Timothy 2:15 really telling us then?
    Do you even know?
    See, this is why we do not believe in the same Bible.
    You think the Bible says things differently.
    But there is only one Word of God.
    We can trust what our Bible says in the English.
    God is not the author of confusion.


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  9. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's telling us to strive for excellence as Christians. Thanks for asking.
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What is the foundation for that?
    Do we just do our own thing?


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  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Let me help you.

    The Bible says,

    2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    2 Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
    (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

    Before you were telling me that to study to show ourselves approved unto God is an erroneous teaching in 2 Timothy 2:15. Yet, we clearly see here in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scrpture is proftable for DOCTRINE, for INSTRUCTION in righteousness, so that.... the man of God may be perfect unto all good works.

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  12. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess, you want to justify the KJV translation by arguing that the foundation is God's Word, so studying God's Word is what is meant by striving for excellence as Christians.

    There's two problems with that.

    First, while studying God's Word is certainly PART of striving for excellence as a Christian, it's NOT THE ONLY PART. There's much more to Christian living than simply reading the Bible. So, it would be an error to limit it to nothing more than reading the Bible.

    Second, if striving for excellence means studying the Word, then those other translations are saying the SAME THING AS THE KJV! And you, therefore, remove the very basis you have for objecting to the other translations.
     
  13. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    WRONG!

    I never said "studying is an erroneous teaching". What I said is that the Greek of 2 Timothy 2:15 doesn't say what the KJV says.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not true. The Bible tells you to be more than a hearer of the Word but a doer.

    Jm 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
    Jm 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:" (James 1:22-23).

    So even when you act upon God's Word, it is a command from Scripture.
    For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

    No they are not saying the same thing. One tells you to study (of which you initally argued against).


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  15. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Now you are double talking.
    You wanted 2 Timothy 2:15 to not be talking about studying by pointing to the Greek;
    Now you are changing your story.


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  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You cannot act properly upon the whole of God's Word without knowing what the whole of God's Word actually says by studying it.


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  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    We first have to believe properly and then act upon God's Word.
    For there are many religiions that seek to change what God's Word says.


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  18. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

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  19. -V-

    -V- Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be confusing multiple issues and constructing straw man fallacies and twisting a lot of what I've said.

    The SOLE issue here: translation of 2 Timothy 2:15 in the KJV as opposed to other translations.

    Things I have NEVER said:
    Striving for christian excellence does not include studying God's Word.
    God's Word doesn't teach us to study God's Word.
    I am against studying God's Word.
    Studying God's Word is a false teaching.
    Christian living is not based on the Word.

    Once again, the Greek word in 2 Timothy 2:15 in question is "spoudazo". In every other verse, the KJV translates it to be eager, earnest, to diligently strive for something. But for some reason, suddenly in this verse, you think it means "study the Word," and other translations are wrong. (Not only are they wrong, but they actually conspired to hide it according to you.)

    Why is "strive" or "be diligent" wrong, when that is PRECISELY what the Greek says?
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    This is why we believe in two different Bibles.
    You cannot have Christian living without the Bible.
    You cannot do your own thing.
    You have to follow Christ according to God's Word; And not another Christ.

    Apparently the many translators on the KJV committee disagree with you. They put the word "study" in there for a good reason. They also knew Greek, too. Many of them spoke and wrote Greek. Do you?


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