The issue is not what anyone thought in Noah's day or not. The issue is whether the planets were where they are in relation to earth at the time!
this would be true if 1) the bible was meant to be a science book or 2) you contend God wrote this portion of bible from his heavenly/complete knowledge perspective..
What I am saying is Moses noah or whom ever wrote genesis was indeed a man and like with the book of revelation this man (moses was credited with genesis) was given a seat garden side and was allowed to pen down what he saw when he saw it.
The bible simply reads this way. meaning day 4 the atmosphere cleared enough to see the day and night sky.
They are small points of light, obviously.
False, we do not know that the planets were in the vicinity of earth in Noah's day!
we kinda do...
Planets.
Of planets, as far as ascertainable with any degree of certainty, only two are mentioned in the Old Testament: Saturn, called by his Assyrian name "Kévan" (
) in Amos v. 26; and "Meleket ha-Shamayim" (
), "the queen of heaven," Jer. vii. 18, xliv. 17, 25, etc. That the latter means Venus is shown by the cakes which are said to have been baked for her. Among the Assyro-Babylonians the cakeofferings were called "the bread of Ishtar" (Venus).
Helel, Son of the Morning.
It is usually claimed that by the word "Helel"
, "son of the morning," in Isa. xiv. 12, the morning star, or, more correctly, one of the two morning stars, is meant; and the analogy with
("to glitter") seems to favor the view. Closely considered, however, there is little foundation for the supposition, since Isaiah gives no intimation whatever that Helel is a star (Gunkel, "Schöpfung und Chaos," pp. 132
et seq.).
The supposition that "Gad" (
) in Isa. lxv. 11 means "Jupiter," the god of Fortune, and that "Meni" (
), in the same verse, means "Venus" (if these readings be correct), rests upon mere hypothesis.
If it were not that the late-Hebrew name "Ẓedeḳ" (
="justice") for "Jupiter" betrays, not an Assyro-Babylonian origin, but rather a late Jewish one—for among the Assyro-Babylonians Saturn is the star of justice—it might be accepted as an earlyJewish name for that planet; but to endeavor to connect this with the Old Testament proper names "Meichizedek" and "Adonizedek" is, to say the least, hazardous.
The Old Testament contains no more than the preceding concerning Hebrew Astronomy. Of Hebrew astrology before the Babylonian exile, it contains not a word; for the passage Isa. xlvii. 13, wherein astrologers are evidently meant by "the astrologers, the star-gazers, the monthly prognosticators," is regarded by most scholars as post-exilic. This may perhaps indicate that the ancient Hebrews possessed no astrology; at all events, what is known of the astrology of the later Hebrews shows Assyro-Babylonian influence, as is illustrated by the fact that Mercury, for instance, is called "the star," just as the Assyro-Babylonians designate him simply as "the planet."
ASTRONOMY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Even if they were, that doesn't mean men didn't know what stars were also.
stars were seen as living creatures that awoke or came out at night. Same article as posted above.
Correct and that is still less than one little lousy light day away!
The issue is assuming that space and time is the same and assigning sizes and distances accordingly.
Show us how a star or comet or planet could hang around for two years or so, and guide a group of people to a certain town and house?
They had no idea (as you do not) what the Christmas star was.We can rule out a star or comet or planet because those things cannot guide you with precision to a house. If you disagree, sail out into a bay of the ocean, and then use stars to guide you to a house in a nearby city! Good luck with that.
honestly don't care not my argument. this is something you included that I have little interest in as it does not pertain to my point about how stars could have existed long before they where seen planet side.
All BUT blocked? Ha. No...OUT...BLACK! No matter where on the planet you are.
Fiction. The crater could be a remnant of a fount of the deep with the direction of 'impact' going from under the earth to above! The death of many animals at the time may have been due to the flood! We do not know...at least science doesn't.
I have no idea what any of this means... you are not following the discussion I plotted out.
Even if that is what God used in the end, (which I doubt) that would not make the universe go dark and go black and have no stars seen anywhere on earth.
YES IT WOULD!!! IF a 500KM wide asteroid slamed into the planet a upto a mile thick layer of dirt and ash would be thrown into orbit surrounding the planet!!!
Can you see a mile into the ground? then imagine a mile's worth of the ground orbiting the earth what makes you think you could see through the same mile of dirt and rock if it orbited over head?
We should also remember that God is sending this, and in no way will it destroy, say, Israel, for one place. He still lands on the mount of Olives and rules from there area.
So scale the rock down to a city block instead of a small state. everything still plays out but now it is possible people can live in a ice age state. as the sun is still at least partially blocked by ashe and dirt in the upper atmosphere.
No way. Doesn't fit the bill at all.
how so? seriously you basically said nut-huh and moved on. I gave scientifically plausible info that correlates with the bible perfectly and on every level. then you say nut-huh, without explanation..
If you want to have a discussion thien discuss. If you want to demonstrate how closed your mind is by not discussing anything you disagree with then there is nothing ore to discuss at all.
The video shows the literal blue sky and clouds being rolled up at the event horizon/shock wave as the pressure from the impact pushed a huge shockwave out from the point of impact.
Just like the bible verse you left described.
God spoke directly in many of the verses I listed! No goat herders involved in the thinking!
Sorry bruh, hate to tell you at best the prophets themselves wrote those verses from their understanding of what God showed them or told them.
Other wise if this was God's writings the OT jews nor us would have any idea what was gng on. think about it the reason he chose prophets is because they interpret for the people God needed a high functioning bronze age man to filter what he saw into something other men could understand.
He used the filter pf Jeremiah He used the Filter of Isaiah or moses.. If you do not think this is true, then why didn't God leave the jews to die in the desert? why did moses have a say in it? what was the reason God did not kill the jews he had pharaoh set free? Because of what moses said and that was based on what people would think of God being an evil being by destroying not only egypt but those he intended to set free. God used the prophets to speak to the people. No one can argue that. therefore even if speaking in the first person they are speaking as bronze age men first on the behalf of God.
Otherwise what you are describing is that they would take on the embodiment of God in order for God to have written those passages in thier various books. IE God would have to had 'possessed them' If you are saying those are God's words and not the words of some bronze age man speaking on the behalf of God.
For that there is no scriptural support that God possess his prophets... Joanah is a good example of How God does not possess his prophets. God influences them, He does not take possession.
Those lights they saw are pretty much the same ones we see now! They are going black.
from a planetary perspective yes.
That does not fit the scientific models at all.
kinda does when you throw a big honking metor at the planet in fact this is what is said to have killed the dinosaurs believe in them or not science does, and science says this meteor theory blocked enough of the sun and all of the nigh sky to initiate a ice age which kills off all the cold blooded dinosaurs. So yes it is a scientifically sound theory which again aligns it'self 100%ly with scripture.
They could never allow for all the universe to go black forever and yet still have folks living on earth watching! Never.
Look smart guy I keep using the term planetary perspective for a reason. do you still not understand this term? stop repeating your closed minded thoughts and simply read what I have written and explained like 5 times now.
The sun moon stars all still shine sport they always will.. but from a planetary perspective meaning if you walked outside after a huge meteor strike the ashe and debris thrown up into the atmosphere as a direct result from the strike would make it seem the sun moon and stars where all rolled up like a scroll... Do you understand? if on the moon you could still see the sun and stars... ok but if you walk out of your house after a meteor strike all would black out. That is not only scientifically plausible they are saying it has happened several times to this planet already!!!
Well, you owe me a drink if you lose I guess.
how about just keep an open mind and don't demand God play out the end of the world as you currently understand it.
Looking at what God Himself said directly in the bible (Jesus also included of course) there is no way stars could be as science thinks, or the universe, or stellar evolution, or the big bang etc etc.
again it just take a different perspective than you right now taking what man currently knows and assigning this knowledge to OT jews.
What they knew of the stars is written down. they saw them as living beings. So nothing like what you think or keep saying they think they where. Is it your contention God sees the stars as living beings? are then angels is some cases? are the cakes in other cases? (venus was a celestial cake)
So unless you think God says venus is a cake then I would not put too much thought into what bronze age men thought of the stars even if they where God's chosen.
If you mind and heart were open just a little you would see what I have done here was assimilate everything science has to say into a purely open frank and honest simple bible reading but from a bronze age planet side perspective.
Start could be stars as science describes but was hidden from man till a few days after the first rain. That in the end the star could be rolled back as a scroll because of what science says will happen in a meteor strike of sufficient size.
