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Featured If somebody practices a sinful life claiming to be saved, how would you minister to him/her?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by unfinishedclay, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. unfinishedclay

    unfinishedclay Member

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    No action beyond prayer and only doing what I can in my own space as a believer. Share the gospel. Help. Volunteer. Participate in outreach. And speaking of that, just doing my part and follow whatever the Word says. Earlier this year I was torn between two opposing leaders caring for homeless at church. One said we should share the gospel and minister salvation to the families. The other said only minister to the needs and respect their space. I started to heed to the latter til I saw opportunity to hide from her with a single mom and do what the first leader said. The single mom got saved.

    But no other action to take except raise the point that apathy is an issue. Or Maybe write. I do blog too. IDK

    For many reasons I'm bothered by things that have been going on all tied to apathy.

    Thanks sis.
     
  2. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    Ask them if they have repented and forsaken their sin. If you are seeing them actively and continually engaged in clear sin and they show no demonstration of repentance, let them know that if they make a practice of sinning in an on-going habitual sin, the Bible grants them no assurance that they are saved or that they have eternal life, and that the wrath of God still abides on them.


    1 John 3:8-9 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.


    "you shall not judge" is one of the most abused passages in scripture. And those who throw out that passage (and you see it frequently on this website) to say that you are never allowed to say that someone is doing something that is against God, are they themselves judging. Moreover, those that misuse the verse "you shall not judge" are often those who are not dealing with a sin in their own life and are suppressing the truth of God.

    Christ was warning about hypocritical judgment. He was not talking about humbly examining someone's life and comparing it to the light of God's truth in scripture, and when seeing them in contradiction to the word of God, to warn them to repent and turn from their sin, and if they don't, God's judgment is already upon them. Then trust in the sovereignty of God through the work of the Holy Spirit to work on their hearts and continue to pray for them.


    John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
     
  3. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not call them out? Are you sure about that?

    Matthew 12:33-37 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad, for the tree is known by its fruit. (34) You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (35) The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. (36) I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, (37) for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

    Matthew 23:33-35 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? (34) Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, (35) so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
     
  4. Senkaku

    Senkaku Shatter the Illusion

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    simple, assess the individual's current position with the Lord. are they sincere about their relationship with God and are just struggling with sin? or do they not care at all and are enjoying their life of sin? Someone who is struggling needs to be encouraged, someone who doesn't care needs to be corrected.
     
  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You aren't their pastor or confessor. Be careful of alienating other people in light of that.
     
  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    You can get in God's face trying to change the person, but the odds are, the only person who will change is you.
    .
    In terms of addressing sin, focus on how the sin causes hurt in the person's life and express compassion and suggest possible solutions regarding their self harming ways. If there is going to be a change of heart, God is going to do it, keep this in mind while you live trusting Him.
     
  7. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    The Bible doesn't forbid making judgments, only making hypocritical judgments. Jesus himself said, "Judge righteous judgment." (Jn. 7:24) He warned, "Go and sin no more, lest a worse thing befall you." (Jn. 5:14; Jn. 8:11) He also warned, "Except you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Lu. 13:3) Jesus' own example was not a passive, milquetoast one; he didn't go about with a beatific smile on his face, patting folks on the head. He actively judged people to be guilty of sin and warned them to repent of it! Paul wrote to Timothy that he should "reprove, rebuke, and exhort" fellow believers. (2 Ti. 4:2) How could he possible do that without judging them worthy of reproof, or rebuke, or exhortation? Paul followed his own advice and made a very harsh judgment against a Corinthian church member, casting him out from the fellowship of believers. (1 Cor. 5) The idea, then, that a believer is not to judge anyone is simply not biblical.

    Ephesians 5:8-11
    8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
    9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
    10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
     
  8. tampasteve

    tampasteve Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    In these examples Yeshua was replying to the Pharisees who were bating and trying to trap Him in His statements and actions, not quite the same as calling out a "sinner" as we are discussing in this scenario. The examples in this case would be more like the tax collectors, Mary Magdalene, etc.
     
  9. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    MATTHEW.21: =
    Jesus Cleanses the Temple
    12 Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’
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    MATTHEW.18: =
    Dealing with a Sinning Brother
    15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
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    1CORINTHIANS.5: =
    Immorality Must Be Judged
    9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

    12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
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    1JOHN.5: =
    16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
     
  10. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    When I found God, I had a great desire and need to look at others who hadn't found Him, and point out their sins. I felt discussed that they could still live that way while also claiming salvation.

    When God found me, I no longer had the desire to judge others. My greatest desire was the be the best me I could be.....to let my light shine so men can see my good works and glorify the Father. Knowing that I am saved through grace and not by any work of my own, that I should boast. Knowing that Christ will win all who is His and will lose none, save the son of perdition.

    When Light it present, darkness disappears. When I sense darkness in my presence, I wonder if my light is going out. I would contemplate why others feel comfortable mentioning "negative" acts in my presence.
     
  11. Gwen-is-new!

    Gwen-is-new! The Lord is my rock!

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    This is so common, and I can so relate to what you are saying. My best friend has lived with her boyfriend for 10 yrs, claims she is a Christian and claims they are married without the paper work basically. It's truly baffling. I told her once (very gently) that God doesn't hear her prayers (with the scripture ref) and she got really mad and said HE DOES TOO, so I go back/forth

    My dad says he's a Christian, but has never read one single word of the bible, and says he doesn't plan to. He told me over thanksgiving that he believes that evolution of man demonstrated that God didn't walk away from us, HE was still perfecting His creation. I just stand there .... speechless.
     
  12. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see this scripture ref. Are you saying that God only hears the Prayers of the Saved?
    Are you of the mind that God cant save unless the bible is read first? Or that to remain saved, you must start reading it? Are the sons God those who are lead by the spirit and who read the bible, Or was being lead by the Spirit the only given requirement?
     
  13. JoeP222w

    JoeP222w Well-Known Member

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    The Pharisees were not repentant.

    The tax collectors, Mary were repentant.

    He was calling out the Pharisees because of their proud and unrepentant hardened hearts.
     
  14. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    ***

    We are all sinners. We all sin. Even the "saved" (referred to as stumbling). However, it's the "trend" of ones life in harmony with the Word of God .... or not. So is a person "stumbling" or has the "act(s)" become a consistent "trend" in ones life?

    There's a difference between "judging" and "discernment" and with people there is a "fine line" between the two. Often when discernment happens through discussion, it is "seen" or "perceived" as judgement. If a person says they are saved, then who are we to doubt that? If we doubt that then that is judgement. God knows the heart and He continually works on hearts all hearts.

    The good thing is ... a person saying they are saved ... then they are receptive to the Word of God. When differences of "interpretation" or what one believes Gods word is saying ... a lot of times there just needs to be discussion about it and the end of it is we agree to disagree on this or that. In other words, in love the people each give their understanding of of Gods word. The "points of view" "understanding" are discussed. What one believes? Is up to them. Conversation about Gods word though plants seeds.

    The "right of wrong" of it is Jesus' call. He alone judges.

    We are all in different "stages" in our relationship with the Lord.

    So, how one proceeds depends on how close of a relationship there is between the people having the conversation(s) and their knowledge and understanding of Gods word. Discuss the scriptures .... agree to disagree if necessary, and let the Lord do His work in their hearts.

    There are many things I used to believe ... but I also have changed many of those beliefs because of personal dedicated study in Gods word. What I believe will be in line with some and out of line with others. That's ok. Agree to disagree.

    This is seen all the time, especially in this forum. But it is good to discuss these things ... and bring up scriptures. But the discussion needs to be that ... discussion in the light of .... this is what I believe and why I believe it ... and we agree to disagree on some things.

    So, refer to scripture, give your current understanding of them, let others do the same. If you agree ... great ... if not .... agree to disagree. Daily search the scriptures.

    Pray for one another.

    Ephesians 6

    18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel.
     
  15. tampasteve

    tampasteve Steadfast Lutheran, Messianic leaning Staff Member Administrator CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team Supporter

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    Perhaps if the person in question is walking around also trying to put on an air of superior religiosity - as the Pharisees were - then we should point out their hypocrisy to them. But if they are just another regular person trying to get by and live well that is another matter.

    How are we to know that the person we are calling out is unrepentant? Just because someone is "living in sin" or what have you does not mean that they are not convicted and desiring to stop, that they have not repented but are in a addiction of sorts. I still say that it is for G-d to judge them and we are better off loving them than trying to convict them ourselves. If they ask then of course we should tell them what scripture says, but to outright cal them out is another matter.
     
  16. Hearingheart

    Hearingheart Well-Known Member

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    We had an incident years ago at a family Christmas gathering. A TV movie was put on, had some bad language and the plot was low, so my husband and I looked at each other knowingly and offered to go for a walk and see the neighborhood Christmas lights. Most of the younger children came along. About 30 minutes later we went back to the house to find a more family friendly movie on in place of the other one. Not a word was said, but there was a knowing as to why we left. Trust God to speak to peoples hearts, just live your life uprightly in front of them.

    I have a low tolerance for BS and abuse and will speak my mind, but I choose not to hang around for the drama to drone on. Only the Spirit can convict a heart and prayer helps clear the mud so that the Spirit can be heard.
     
  17. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    GENESIS.3:16 says that God's curse for Eve's Original Sin is for women to suffer pain during childbirth and being lorded over by or emotionally subservient to her husband/bf/lover. So, it is very important for girls to marry the right man, eg one who is a blameless and upright man, fears God and shuns evil.(JOB.1:8)

    Can't blame anyone but herself if a girl chooses to marry a "bad-boy", then suffers abuse and can't seem to extricate herself from the toxic relationship. This is because in marriage and sex, two flesh become one flesh.(GEN.2:24) In such a situation, it's best for others not to intervene as to who is right or wrong unless a crime has been committed. Remember that they are one flesh.
     
  18. Pastor Dennis Teel

    Pastor Dennis Teel New Member

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    It depends on what one is defining as leading a sinful life..If you're speaking of this person being a liar or being a fornicator or an adulterer or a thief or something else that that's effecting someone else then that's one thing..but if you're speaking of something like them listening to rock music or watching Mel Gibson movies or horror movies then that's something else entirely,as it affects at the most,only themselves and even then not necessarily..One's Christian'performance ' is not to be judged as that's not what our salvation is based upon.I have a music collection that encompasses artists from the Andrews Sisters and Bing Crosby to Johnny Mathis to the Doors and metallica and Madonna to many of the current artists like Bruno Mars,Adele,Tarja Turunen and everything inbetween..including Dottie Rambo and the Singing Rambos and The Gaithers.Many christians,even Ministers, believe that's horrible and they love to tell me about it..But i'm not dumpstering my many years of collection for their legalistic beliefs.I'm an audiophile..since 5 years old and i'm now 63..You can't judge someone by the fact they 'do' secular things or have secular hobbies..It isn't everyone that limits their hobbies and pass times to reading scripture and study.Some do feel the need for that kind of commitment and others don't. There's no right or wrong in regard to that..now if i was going to a strip club as a pass time that would be clearly something that is questionable..especially if i was going as often as i listen to music..And here's a new topic that deserves attention..If someone has a singing voice or a musical talent other than their voice, is that person by scripture expected to serve God with that gift or are they allowed to go the secular route? i know people who have gifts for doing mathmatical figuring and some have the personality to sell things..again it's a gift..but they work in areas like sales and marketing jobs where these jobs fluorish and are needed..wouldn't that be just as wrong as the musician going the secular route?? i mean certainly the math genius could find a Christian based job and the guy with the gift of persuasive personality as a ministers assistant or Deacon or something..And if it's wrong for a musician to go down the secular path,thenyou're saying it's wrong for someone to write a song about their girlfriend or other life experiences and not include Jesus in the lyrics...correct?because somehow i don't see secular music of itself,just because it's secular,being evil or something Jesus is 'against..IMO however i believe legalists will always see the wrong in it. Funny how music becomes a totally a religious topic than any other kind of job situation..IMO the bible doesn't restrict Christians with gifts to commit that talent only to the Lord. As i said,if that be so,then it would have to apply to any gift other than just musical.Right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  19. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus called out the religious leader s particularly. Jesus called out only those abusing His religion. Not common people
     
  20. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Amen Pastor!

    And welcome to the forums!
     
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