If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

[GodsGrace101]

Peter certainly fits the bill, and I can understand your interpretation.

No one can deny that he was the rock of the early church. He along with the other apostles laid the foundation that we are building on in Christ.

I see it as being deeper that this though, but I certainly will not argue against Peter's role in Christ's plan for the church.

This is not a salvation issue and I don't care to argue about it either.
Jesus is our foundation and cornerstone.....
If we stumble, we stumble over not accepting Jesus, NOT Peter.
Jesus is the cornerstone by which the church STANDS...not Peter.
The foundation is built on Jesus....1 Corinthians 3
Not Paul or Apollos.

I appreciate that you understand my position on this....
Jesus named Peter Cephas....rock
and He used that rock for the early church....
I believe this is what Jesus meant.

Blessings.

 

[GenemZ]

Matthew 5
Matthew 6
Matthew 7

7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall.”

If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

Honestly I don't know if I can live up to what Jesus says in this sermon ...

We need perspective. As far as everyone was concerned.. Jesus was teaching Judaism as a rabbi would teach to Jews, not the church. That point is missed often.

For the Jews had OT Scriptures that speak of the Millennium and also the Tribulation. Jesus alluded to both. For, those times are designated first to the Jews, who will be alive on earth when it takes place. In contrast, our citizenship is in Heaven. The Church age thinking at the time of the Sermon on the Mount was still being hidden and remaining a mystery.

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to
present to you the word of God in its fullness— the mystery
that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is
now disclosed to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen
to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this
mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Col 1:25-27​

The Sermon on the Mount are great words for us to appreciate and apply principle and analysis from. But, it must be understood that Jesus was teaching Jews according to Judaism, not Christianity. Jesus was teaching Judaism as it should have been understood, but the religious pharisees had been corrupting Judaism. Its why Jesus showed such disdain for their religious hypocrisy.

 

[GodsGrace101]

We need perspective. As far as everyone was concerned.. Jesus was teaching Judaism as a rabbi would teach to Jews, not the church. That point is missed often.

For the Jews had OT Scriptures that speak of the Millennium and also the Tribulation. Jesus alluded to both. For, those times are designated first to the Jews, who will be alive on earth when it takes place. In contrast, our citizenship is in Heaven. The Church age thinking at the time of the Sermon on the Mount was still being hidden and remaining a mystery.

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to
present to you the word of God in its fullness— the mystery
that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is
now disclosed to the Lord’s people. To them God has chosen
to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this
mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Col 1:25-27​

The Sermon on the Mount are great words for us to appreciate and apply principle and analysis from. But, it must be understood that Jesus was teaching Jews according to Judaism, not Christianity. Jesus was teaching Judaism as it should have been understood, but the religious pharisees had been corrupting Judaism. Its why Jesus showed such disdain for their religious hypocrisy.

The above is true....
however,
Jesus, did, within His lifetime, come to know that the whole world would have to come to know His teachings. He told the Apostles to go into all the world
Matthew 28:19-20
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

This is also true for the parable of the Wedding Banquet when Jesus already knew that others would be called to the feast:
Matthew 22:9
9‘Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’

Of course the New Covenant became effective AFTER the death of Jesus,,,but wouldn't you say that He KNEW that He was aware that He would be the Messiah to all even at the time of declaring Peter was the rock? (I do believe He meant Peter)...
Matthew 16:18
18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Also, we know from the Abrahamic Covenant that God meant for all the nations of the world to be blessed through him.
Genesis 17:4
4“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you,
And you will be the father of a multitude of nations.

 

[GenemZ]

The above is true....
however,
Jesus, did, within His lifetime, come to know that the whole world would have to come to know His teachings. He told the Apostles to go into all the world
Matthew 28:19-20
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

This is also true for the parable of the Wedding Banquet when Jesus already knew that others would be called to the feast:
Matthew 22:9
9‘Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’

Of course the New Covenant became effective AFTER the death of Jesus,,,but wouldn't you say that He KNEW that He was aware that He would be the Messiah to all even at the time of declaring Peter was the rock? (I do believe He meant Peter)...
Matthew 16:18
18“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

Also, we know from the Abrahamic Covenant that God meant for all the nations of the world to be blessed through him.
Genesis 17:4
4“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you,
And you will be the father of a multitude of nations.

The question was:

If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?


I answered that question. What you are asking about now I am not sure what it is you are looking for.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The question was:

If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?


I answered that question. What you are asking about now I am not sure what it is you are looking for.

YOU brought up a whole different topic.
If you don't care to pursue it, fine....but don't start what you can't finish and then scold the other member.

 

[GenemZ]

YOU brought up a whole different topic.
If you don't care to pursue it, fine....but don't start what you can't finish and then scold the other member.

I was explaining the intent behind the Sermon on the Mount, and how its entirely different from the intent of faith in the Cross. Maybe you should read it again and see what you missed? I did not start a whole different topic.

It is good to know these truths. Truth to make us free. Free from confusion.

 

[GenemZ]

The above is true....
however,
Jesus, did, within His lifetime, come to know that the whole world would have to come to know His teachings.

Yes .. to know His teachings. But also to understand what applied to Israel and what applies to the Church today during the church age. This thread is to be about faith in the Cross and how the Sermon on the Mount might relate. Its about two different dispensations.

For example. We can read about the Colonists war for independence from England. We can study how the colonist soldiers loaded their flintlock muskets to learn the details involved in how they were effective in the battle for freedom.

But, in our dispensation? In the modern world? To apply such knowledge of weaponry in modern warfare would be misapplication. Likewise... the Sermon on the Mount pertained to Jewish teachings and its application, not the Church. Just look at the modern world. The meek are not inheriting the earth today. That will be the Millennium, as taught in OT Scripture.

At present, a believer in Christ is to have his own personal inner peace that he takes with him wherever he goes. That can only take place if sound doctrine is learned on a regular basis, and that believer also learns how to keep walking in the filling of the Spirit. This teaching I just mentioned? The Jews listening to Jesus while hearing about the Sermon on the Mount? They could not have understood from Judaism.

The Cross was the beginning of a new age in God's plan for mankind. The Sermon on the Mount was a message of hope for those yet living in the previous age in God's plan for mankind.

grace and peace...

 

[GodsGrace101]

I was explaining the intent behind the Sermon on the Mount, and how its entirely different from the intent of faith in the Cross. Maybe you should read it again and see what you missed? I did not start a whole different topic.

It is good to know these truths. Truth to make us free. Free from confusion.

I agree with you.
I was responding to what you said here: (post 62)

The Sermon on the Mount are great words for us to appreciate and apply principle and analysis from. But, it must be understood that Jesus was teaching Jews according to Judaism, not Christianity. Jesus was teaching Judaism as it should have been understood, but the religious pharisees had been corrupting Judaism. Its why Jesus showed such disdain for their religious hypocrisy.

I was trying to understand better, that's all.
You state that it's great words for us to appreciate and apply principle from.

It sounds like Jesus meant this for the Jews but it's also good for us, but maybe not necessary.

I'm saying that there's only ONE Body of Christ and only ONE Church (capital C).

I believe we are freed from the civil and ceremonial laws but are not free from the Moral Law,,,the 10 commandments, and all that Jesus said to do.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes .. to know His teachings. But also to understand what applied to Israel and what applies to the Church today during the church age. This thread is to be about faith in the Cross and how the Sermon on the Mount might relate. Its about two different dispensations.

For example. We can read about the Colonists war for independence from England. We can study how the colonist soldiers loaded their flintlock muskets to learn the details involved in how they were effective in the battle for freedom.

But, in our dispensation? In the modern world? To apply such knowledge of weaponry in modern warfare would be misapplication. Likewise... the Sermon on the Mount pertained to Jewish teachings and its application, not the Church. Just look at the modern world. The meek are not inheriting the earth today. That will be the Millennium, as taught in OT Scripture.

At present, a believer in Christ is to have his own personal inner peace that he takes with him wherever he goes. That can only take place if sound doctrine is learned on a regular basis, and that believer also learns how to keep walking in the filling of the Spirit. This teaching I just mentioned? The Jews listening to Jesus while hearing about the Sermon on the Mount? They could not have understood from Judaism.

The Cross was the beginning of a new age in God's plan for mankind. The Sermon on the Mount was a message of hope for those yet living in the previous age in God's plan for mankind.

grace and peace...

Look at your signature line....
God dwells in a meek and gentle heart.
That's what the sermon on the mount was about!

I do agree that some of the items were meant for the future...perhaps Jesus even meant in Heaven.
The meek surely are not inheriting the earth now, as you've said.

But I don't understand about different dispensations...I don't find a need to study up on this, and so maybe I missed your lingo and thus the misunderstanding.

You say the cross was the beginning of a new age. This I agree with - we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant but under the New Covenant. I understand the Covenants and how they've changed and become better, the ultimate and last being the New.

I'm not sure how to apply your example of the colonists and the muskets....
Everything Jesus taught is also for us today.
Before the Holy Spirit was IN the world,,, NOW He dwells within us. You might say laws had to be followed before,,,but weren't men always saved bv faith? Hebrews 11 and Romans states that man was always saved by faith -- Jesus taught that there was not too much good in following every law if man did not also have faith.

Do you feel that we are not required to apply what Jesus taught?

 

[GenemZ]

I agree with you.
I was responding to what you said here: (post 62)

The Sermon on the Mount are great words for us to appreciate and apply principle and analysis from. But, it must be understood that Jesus was teaching Jews according to Judaism, not Christianity. Jesus was teaching Judaism as it should have been understood, but the religious pharisees had been corrupting Judaism. Its why Jesus showed such disdain for their religious hypocrisy.

I was trying to understand better, that's all.
You state that it's great words for us to appreciate and apply principle from.

It sounds like Jesus meant this for the Jews but it's also good for us, but maybe not necessary.

I'm saying that there's only ONE Body of Christ and only ONE Church (capital C).

I believe we are freed from the civil and ceremonial laws but are not free from the Moral Law,,,the 10 commandments, and all that Jesus said to do.

Every word Jesus spoke is good (actually, great) for us to understand.

But, not as the Jews understood it. In the sermon on the mount (and when ever he spoke to others) we can see the mind of Jesus at work. We get to see how his leadership is the pinnacle role model for all of us who are needing to grow and mature (in grace and knowledge) into becoming one of His representatives here on earth. If it be a mother with here children, a governor with his people, or anyone who is here to be overseers for others. And, how to be humble with those above us, as the Lord showed with the Father.

 

[GenemZ]

Look at your signature line....
God dwells in a meek and gentle heart.
That's what the sermon on the mount was about!

I am not inheriting this earth! You can keep it!

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living
hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade.
This inheritance is kept in heaven for you." 1 Peter 1:3-4

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a
Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ." Phipns 3:20​

My inheritance is in Heaven! Its our inheritance! Its not for Jews who believed in the Lord outside of the Church age.

The new earth (Millennium and New Earth) is to be for the Jews inheritance. For Jews who will be living on the "new earth" when Jesus reigns on His throne in Jerusalem. For those qualified in the Church? They will be commuting from Heaven to earth to reign with the Lord over the nations...

 

[danielmears]

Matthew 5
Matthew 6
Matthew 7

7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall.”

If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

Honestly I don't know if I can live up to what Jesus says in this sermon ...

It is not that complicated, we are to do what Christ said, love God with all of our heart and mind. Love others, for God is love. Believe what Christ did, the miracles, the resurrection and that he was One with God. Have faith in God, that He is with us. Then you are connected to the vine. Then let God move through you for you are a child of the Living God! All things are possible with God so believe it! The Spirit will help you, only believe...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Every word Jesus spoke is good (actually, great) for us to understand.

But, not as the Jews understood it. In the sermon on the mount (and when ever he spoke to others) we can see the mind of Jesus at work. We get to see how his leadership is the pinnacle role model for all of us who are needing to grow and mature (in grace and knowledge) into becoming one of His representatives here on earth. If it be a mother with here children, a governor with his people, or anyone who is here to be overseers for others. And, how to be humble with those above us, as the Lord showed with the Father.

Agreed.
Jesus taught how to become a member of the Kingdom of God here on earth.
Matthew 4:17
"Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand".

AT HAND.

Jesus started a new church, but His goal was to change the world by having enough persons to follow Him,,,as you stated.

As to Him being a role model...
This is the Moral Influence Theory of atonement and is the oldest model.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am not inheriting this earth! You can keep it!

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living
hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade.
This inheritance is kept in heaven for you." 1 Peter 1:3-4

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a
Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ." Phipns 3:20​

My inheritance is in Heaven! Its our inheritance! Its not for Jews who believed in the Lord outside of the Church age.

The new earth (Millennium and New Earth) is to be for the Jews inheritance. For Jews who will be living on the "new earth" when Jesus reigns on His throne in Jerusalem. For those qualified in the Church? They will be commuting from Heaven to earth to reign with the Lord over the nations...

I agree but I don't understand your last 2 paragraphs.

Our inheritance is for anyone that believes....
What do you mean that Jews will be living in the New Jerusalem and those "qualified in the Church" will be commuting from heaven to earth? Do you have scripture for this?

 

[GenemZ]

Agreed.
Jesus taught how to become a member of the Kingdom of God here on earth.
Matthew 4:17
"Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand".

Jesus had just faced and overcome Satan in the temptation in the wilderness. The Kingdom was within Him. He had secured the next move for God's people in having done so.

He was teaching them to "make ready" for the Kingdom.

To "repent" meant to 'change one's thinking about a matter.' That had many false notions drilled into them by the religious hierarchy of Pharisees... and needed to begin thinking in the new way in order to conform to God's desire for their lives. Religion always tries to defy God's order and many conform to its dictates. Jesus was telling them the Kingdom is now here (in Himself) and that they now need to begin changing how they think about how they are to have a harmonious spiritual relationship with God.

There was to be no more religion for the Kingdom to function:

"Yet a time is coming and is about to come when the true worshipers
will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind
of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must
worship in the Spirit and in Truth.” Jn 4:23-24​

Having a harmonious spiritual relationship with God is not religion. Religion was as the religious Jews had known. Its now to be a spiritual life that is alive and constantly progressing and growing. As our body grows, so it is how our souls should be growing in spiritual understanding. To be constantly growing till the day we leave this earth, finding a dedicated pastor whom God has anointed to teach others. Causing a growth through more and more understanding of God's Word.

grace and peace....

 

[GenemZ]

I agree but I don't understand your last 2 paragraphs.

Our inheritance is for anyone that believes....
What do you mean that Jews will be living in the New Jerusalem and those "qualified in the Church" will be commuting from heaven to earth? Do you have scripture for this?

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things
passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17​

The Jews were promised in the Torah a New Kingdom on earth for the Jews. That is what Jesus came preaching about in the Gospels. But, after the resurrection the explosion of the appearance of the Church took everyone by surprise! It was unexpected! Those who believed in the resurrected Jesus were now transformed by God and provided for not as the Jews had been, and even if they had been Jews when they believed. The Church has been called out to become the Bride of Christ. The Husband's home is to become our home. His home is Heaven. Its our "inheritance" when we believe in Jesus today.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there
male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

"Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian,
Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all." Colossians 3:11

"Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts
is the new creation." Galatians 6:15
​

grace and peace........!

 

[GodsGrace101]

Jesus had just faced and overcome Satan in the temptation in the wilderness. The Kingdom was within Him. He had secured the next move for God's people in having done so.

He was teaching them to "make ready" for the Kingdom.

To "repent" meant to 'change one's thinking about a matter.' That had many false notions drilled into them by the religious hierarchy of Pharisees... and needed to begin thinking in the new way in order to conform to God's desire for their lives. Religion always tries to defy God's order and many conform to its dictates. Jesus was telling them the Kingdom is now here (in Himself) and that they now need to begin changing how they think about how they are to have a harmonious spiritual relationship with God.

There was to be no more religion for the Kingdom to function:

"Yet a time is coming and is about to come when the true worshipers
will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind
of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must
worship in the Spirit and in Truth.” Jn 4:23-24​

Having a harmonious spiritual relationship with God is not religion. Religion was as the religious Jews had known. Its now to be a spiritual life that is alive and constantly progressing and growing. As our body grows, so it is how our souls should be growing in spiritual understanding. To be constantly growing till the day we leave this earth, finding a dedicated pastor whom God has anointed to teach others. Causing a growth through more and more understanding of God's Word.

grace and peace....

I agree on all.
Did I use the word "religion"?
I don't think so.

Regarding the Kingdom....
Jesus spoke constantly of how to enter into the Kingdom of God...

By repenting....

and He explained what the Kingdom is like....
"the kingdom is like"...Matthew chapter 13.
Jesus had the Kingdom inside Him...of course,
but He also wanted to set up a Kingdom here on earth.

This would be His Church .... the Body of Christ working to make a better world.

 

[GodsGrace101]

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things
passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17​

The Jews were promised in the Torah a New Kingdom on earth for the Jews. That is what Jesus came preaching about in the Gospels. But, after the resurrection the explosion of the appearance of the Church took everyone by surprise! It was unexpected! Those who believed in the resurrected Jesus were now transformed by God and provided for not as the Jews had been, and even if they had been Jews when they believed. The Church has been called out to become the Bride of Christ. The Husband's home is to become our home. His home is Heaven. Its our "inheritance" when we believe in Jesus today.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there
male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

"Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian,
Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all." Colossians 3:11

"Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts
is the new creation." Galatians 6:15
​

grace and peace........!

Agreed again.

Please give more thought to God's earthly Kingdom now....Heaven begins now.

And in the end time, the REAL earthly Kingdom will be established. Now it is a spiritual Kingdom of His followers...then it will become the new earth where Jesus will reign.

 

[GenemZ]

I agree on all.
Did I use the word "religion"?
I don't think so.

No, you did not. But what you did introduce required an explanation. The Jews were to come out of religion (repentance) and enter into the new life that was son to be revealed in the Church age. Which began as the first church in Jerusalem.

Regarding the Kingdom....
Jesus spoke constantly of how to enter into the Kingdom of God...

By repenting....

Yes! Religion headed by the Pharisees had turned the Jews into seeking God's approval by doing works.

Just then a man came up to Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what good deed
should I do to have eternal life?" Matthew 19:16​

The Jews were conditioned by the religious pharisees to do works to gain access to God's approval. The Jews were always seeking works to do. That is why Jesus was asked about deeds/works.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:28-29​

Jesus was teaching Truth to the Jews and getting them to change their religious ways (repentance). Instead of telling them of some good work to do to be saved? He told them that one receives God's approval by simply having faith. By believing in Jesus Christ we are saved, not by works.

There are religious churches today who tell their people that they must perform certain works in order to remain saved. Repentance accomplished by those believing what the Bible says? Would bring about a rejection of that teaching on works. Hence, "repent, and be saved."

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not
from yourselves, it is the gift of God_ not by works, so that no one
can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
​

He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
.
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you
and your household.” Acts 16:30-31
​

Remember in Matthew 4:17? Jesus was telling them to repent (of their religious ways) because the Kingdom was at hand. That nation of Israel had become filled with religion, not God's Truth. Its why God allowed Rome to overrun Israel and occupy their nation,for God disciplined His people for disobedience to His Word.

grace and peace.......

 

[danielmears]

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things
passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17​

The Jews were promised in the Torah a New Kingdom on earth for the Jews. That is what Jesus came preaching about in the Gospels. But, after the resurrection the explosion of the appearance of the Church took everyone by surprise! It was unexpected! Those who believed in the resurrected Jesus were now transformed by God and provided for not as the Jews had been, and even if they had been Jews when they believed. The Church has been called out to become the Bride of Christ. The Husband's home is to become our home. His home is Heaven. Its our "inheritance" when we believe in Jesus today.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there
male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

"Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian,
Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all." Colossians 3:11

"Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts
is the new creation." Galatians 6:15
​

grace and peace........!

I love the scriptures you posted about being a new creation and all one with Christ. This in a nutshell is what believer's must rap their mind around, a realization that we are no longer just Bob, or Joe, or Julie but one with God and Christ, a new being! The power of the Living God with us, sons and daughters of the most high! Then doing the Father's will becomes our will, glory to God!