If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

[GaveMeJoy]

The meaning of the Sermon on the Mount is especially for those christians who are maturing after they already had a full and normal birth, and have fellowship of a church that was believing in the full & normal birth, and have learned to pray and to read Scripture a great deal. It is not the first step to the christian life.

Don't forget turning the other cheek is to show up your oppressor's risk of demeaning himself, and offering to go the extra mile meant at that time inviting your oppressor to get himself into trouble.

The things in the sermon can't be done without well founded Holy Spirit power for relating and enduring.

What scripture do you have to support an aggressive interpretation of turning the other cheek? Historical? It’s interedting

 

[Dave.lyre]

I hope this helps.

"Do not marvel that I said to you, 'you must be born again'.The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:7-8 emphasis added)

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Galatians 5:25 emphasis added)

When one lives in the Spirit it means such one is born again and has experienced the new birth.

To walk in the Spirit, however, simply means being led by the Holy Spirit daily (following his wisdom, obeying his real-time instructions, and allowing him guide us especially when we are faced with temptations).

Few Christians do not recognise that the Holy Spirit of God often gives us foresight of what would happen in the future if we take certain actions now. Also he provides ways to avoid sin early enough in wisdom. "...He will tell you things to come." (John 16:13).

For example, the matter of unforgiveness, lustful actions, adultery and fornication which sometimes lead to divorce can be avoided if we walk in the Spirit. This is Jesus' point in all his teachings including the sermon on the mountain. Being led by the Spirit or walking in the Spirit can not be overemphasised. The Holy Spirit leads those born of him to avoid bad situations long before they happen.

Some of Jesus' parables expresses these things. The parable of the ten (10) virgins does (Matthew 25:1-13).

 

[Amittai]

I read Christian books. They provide context. In the past, just reading of the Bible made me self critical.

In addition, we must pray that our churches will provide us with context.

 

[Amittai]

... Historical? ...

Yes. Assertive is a word that comes to mind.

"Going the extra mile" in sacrficie for a friend or a stranger in need is different from "offering to go the extra mile" for an oppressor by the way.

 

[Amittai]

Yes. Assertive is a word that comes to mind.

"Going the extra mile" in sacrifice for a friend or a stranger in need is different from "offering to go the extra mile" for an oppressor by the way.

In the midst of family problems we may find ourselves doing both. This attitude is a way of retaining self-respect whilst not becoming passive-agressive or resentful - it gives our soul breathing room for discernment and prayer.

Either way it is the opposite of doormats.

 

[Amittai]

It's the verse that proves Peter was innocent.

How could Peter be guilty of denying the death of Christ on the cross, when he didn't even know Christ was to die on the cross.

You are attributing to Peter what Satan has done!

Everything Jesus said is suggestive. He means to spark off meditation and exploration on everyone's initiative.

This to my mind is a more natural way of speaking altogether. This expecting to be spoonfed with what is off pat, as if you are an automaton, which we get taught, is so impoverished.

Jesus' will is to impute a truer, higher, deeper innocence to us. Until it ever becomes a "scoreboard", it is not a scoreboard.

Jesus has to speak clearly to the moral quality of our thinking patterns.

 

[Amittai]

[somehow got split into two posts]

In the midst of family problems we may find ourselves doing both. This attitude is a way of retaining self-respect whilst not becoming passive-agressive or resentful - it gives our soul breathing room for discernment and prayer.

Either way it is the opposite of doormats.

 

[GodsGrace101]

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith (James 2:14-18), but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Hey Danthemailman,
Long time no see.

So i think you agree then...
If what you say above is believed by you...
then --
No Works --- No Salvation...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Well, Christ did call him "Satan." According to the verse, Christ turned to Peter and said those words, so there is little doubt about who or what he was referring to. Maybe some people prefer another interpretation, although it's hard to see how that would be possible.

Albion,
Jesus did not call Peter satan.
Do you think Jesus picked a devil to be an Apostle?
Jesus meant that Peter was being USED by satan,,,Jesus was speaking to satan, who was influencing Peter in thinking worldly thoughts (to save Jesus from death) instead of thinking of what GOD wanted from Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace101]

...and a few lines later he likens Peter to Satan. So if the rock was Peter's confession of faith, it didn't last very long! Or the church-building with it. Probably a different way of understanding the passage would be the correct one.

I agree that Peter was most probably the rock for a couple of reasons...
It's just that Protestants really to rail against this, and I've never understood why.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Concerning Matt. 7:24-27, that you have posted here, the rock that the house was built on.

Do you remember in Matt. 16:13-20 when Christ asked the disciples "who do you say that I am?"

Peter said, "you are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "you are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

It was not Peter that was the rock, it was "you are the Christ, the Son of the living God" that was the rock that the Church would be built on.

In Matt. 7:24-27 is the same rock, the rock of faith.

I'm not Catholic and I've pondered this verse many times.

I've come to the conclusion that Jesus DID mean Peter as being the rock.

The reason I think this is because of how the entire conversation went....
If Jesus meant to say that HE was the rock....then the conversation becomes
trickery and a put down of Peter.

It's like saying:
OK....YOU are a rock;
but hey,,,,
I'm going to build the church on ME....I'M really the rock.

You see, it would have been like mocking Peter.

Please give this some consideration before replying. (if you reply).

 

[Charlie24]

I'm not Catholic and I've pondered this verse many times.

I've come to the conclusion that Jesus DID mean Peter as being the rock.

The reason I think this is because of how the entire conversation went....
If Jesus meant to say that HE was the rock....then the conversation becomes
trickery and a put down of Peter.

It's like saying:
OK....YOU are a rock;
but hey,,,,
I'm going to build the church on ME....I'M really the rock.

You see, it would have been like mocking Peter.

Please give this some consideration before replying. (if you reply).

The foundation of the church is "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Peter's name means a stone, "on that rock" the confession of Peter, Christ is comparing the confession of Peter "a rock" as the rock of the church, the acknowledgement of Christ by faith.

In an earlier post, I compared that rock of faith in Christ as the "wise man that built his house on the rock."

 

[zoidar]

I have come to this conclusion.

1. Jesus bore the sins of all humanity on the cross, IOW, he was "punished" for the sins of all mankind.

2. If we have the Holy Spirit our body was crucified with Jesus, and we are forgiven in him.

3. As long as we have the Holy Spirit we are saved, and will have fruits of the Spirit.

4. Living in sin, not serving God will quench the Holy Spirit and we will be cut off the vine and sorted out with all other bad fish.

Matthew 7:17
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit

Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil

 

[Charlie24]

I have come to this conclusion.

1. Jesus bore the sins of all humanity on the cross, IOW, he was "punished" for the sins of all mankind.

2. If we have the Holy Spirit our body was crucified with Jesus, and we are forgiven in him.

3. As long as we have the Holy Spirit we are saved, and will have fruits of the Spirit.

4. Living in sin, not serving God will quench the Holy Spirit and we will be cut off the vine and sorted out with all other bad fish.

Matthew 7:17
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit

Luke 6:45
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil

I agree! If we are saved and choose to live in sin, and have no fruits of the Spirit, then comes the chastening of the Lord.

If we rebel against that chastening it's just a matter of time that we will be cut off the vine.

But if we take the chastening of the Lord and see our error and repent, the Spirit will begin to work again and bring forth the fruits.

As Paul said, the battle is the "good fight of faith." But it must be as James said, the faith that is accompanied by the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The foundation of the church is "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Peter's name means a stone, "on that rock" the confession of Peter, Christ is comparing the confession of Peter "a rock" as the rock of the church, the acknowledgement of Christ by faith.

In an earlier post, I compared that rock of faith in Christ as the "wise man that built his house on the rock."

Hi Charlie24...
Of course I've considered the above.
Christ is the cornerstone...He is the foundation of our faith and of His church and of His Church. He is the rock upon which the wise man built his house.
Matthew 7:24

I take nothing away from Jesus.
However, do you stop to think of church history?

I will post a couple of links that explain this better, maybe, but I do believe that the early church depended a lot on Peter in the beginning and then on James, there in Jerusalem. Peter was looked up to and I do believe that Jesus understood that he would be a strong figure for the new church and that he (Peter) could be depended upon. In fact, we hear a lot of Peter and Paul, but not too much about the other Apostles..Peter was the leader of the Apostles.

Jesus depended on Peter's faith and on his leadership to begin His (Jesus') church.

See

John Chrysostom (d. 407), in his 52d Homily on the Gospel according to Matthew, wrote:

What then saith Christ? “Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas; thou shalt be called Cephas. Thus since thou hast proclaimed my Father, I too name him that begat thee; all but saying, As thou art son of Jonas, even so am I of my Father. Else it were superfluous to say, Thou art Son of Jonas; but since he had said, Son of God, to point out that He is so Son of God, as the other son of Jonas, of the same substance with Him that begat Him, therefore He added this, And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession.

also

And this he heard from the Lord: Blessed are you, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. See what praises follow this faith: You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church. What means, Upon this rock I will build my Church? Upon this faith; upon this that has been said, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Upon this rock, says He, I will build my Church (Homily X on the First Epistle of John)

source: What did Jesus mean by "on this rock, I will build my church"?

 

[Charlie24]

Hi Charlie24...
Of course I've considered the above.
Christ is the cornerstone...He is the foundation of our faith and of His church and of His Church. He is the rock upon which the wise man built his house.
Matthew 7:24

I take nothing away from Jesus.
However, do you stop to think of church history?

I will post a couple of links that explain this better, maybe, but I do believe that the early church depended a lot on Peter in the beginning and then on James, there in Jerusalem. Peter was looked up to and I do believe that Jesus understood that he would be a strong figure for the new church and that he (Peter) could be depended upon. In fact, we hear a lot of Peter and Paul, but not too much about the other Apostles..Peter was the leader of the Apostles.

Jesus depended on Peter's faith and on his leadership to begin His (Jesus') church.

See

John Chrysostom (d. 407), in his 52d Homily on the Gospel according to Matthew, wrote:

What then saith Christ? “Thou art Simon, the son of Jonas; thou shalt be called Cephas. Thus since thou hast proclaimed my Father, I too name him that begat thee; all but saying, As thou art son of Jonas, even so am I of my Father. Else it were superfluous to say, Thou art Son of Jonas; but since he had said, Son of God, to point out that He is so Son of God, as the other son of Jonas, of the same substance with Him that begat Him, therefore He added this, And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession.

also

And this he heard from the Lord: Blessed are you, Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. See what praises follow this faith: You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church. What means, Upon this rock I will build my Church? Upon this faith; upon this that has been said, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Upon this rock, says He, I will build my Church (Homily X on the First Epistle of John)

source: What did Jesus mean by "on this rock, I will build my church"?

Peter certainly fits the bill, and I can understand your interpretation.

No one can deny that he was the rock of the early church. He along with the other apostles laid the foundation that we are building on in Christ.

I see it as being deeper that this though, but I certainly will not argue against Peter's role in Christ's plan for the church.

 

[bcbsr]

As for the purpose, see my intro to my study guide on the Sermon on the Mount at The Sermon on the Mount

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 5
Matthew 6
Matthew 7

7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall.”

If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his actions. Obedience to any set of instructions that are for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, so if we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live and faith that His law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), then we will obey His law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so only those who have faith in God will obey His law and be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we ear our justification by obeying the law. Every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11 are instances of people taking actions in accordance with God's will, while disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith, such as in Numbers 5:6.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we trust in the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from. At no point is trusting in the cross ever presented as something that we just mentally affirm as being historically accurate. Even the demons believe that Jesus rose from the dead, so we need to understand and trust in what the cross means for how we should live our lives.

Honestly I don't know if I can live up to what Jesus says in this sermon ...

Everything that Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount was in accordance with the OT. Kind of like a parent watching their toddler who is stumbling in the process of learning to walk, God wants us to succeed, He is cheering us on, and He has infinite patience for those who are seeking by faith to learn how to walk in His ways.

 

[Hawkins]

Faith is not measurable by humans, or even angels. So faith without any action reflecting it means the lack of witnessing. Judgment is made by Jesus, He's God thus He can measure faith without any human action. However this is not what He wanted. He wanted humans (Christians) to have good witnessing for themselves such that at the moment when they are saved, their salvation reflects or glorifies the just and fair God.

Say, if you are a disabled lying in a hospital's bed all the time and being unable to show any good works. Jesus can still measure your faith and save you. On the other hand, you are a normal person claiming that you have faith but you failed to action it as a witnessing of your claimed faith, then first your faith may not be the faith specified by Christ through the New Covenant at all and second Jesus may reject you due to the lack of witnessing (as reflected in the ancient Jewish custom, you need 2 witnesses for your claim to stand).

God and Jesus may make an exemption to save you under your lack of good works standing as a witness (it is so because God is a Trinity, Father and Son and Holy Spirit can stand a valid witnessing). However if He grants this exemption to everyone it only means He can't be shown as a just and fair God, as only He alone knows whether your faith is the qualified one.

In contrary, something appeared to be "good work" may not be good at all if the faith itself as measured by God is not qualified. That's why those with "O Lord" in their mouths may not be saved when judged by Jesus to be with an evil heart. (that's how Jesus prefers a child's heart as He put)

 

[GodsGrace101]

What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his actions. Obedience to any set of instructions that are for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, so if we have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live and faith that His law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), then we will obey His law. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so only those who have faith in God will obey His law and be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we ear our justification by obeying the law. Every example of saving faith listed in Hebrews 11 are instances of people taking actions in accordance with God's will, while disobedience to God's law is referred to as breaking faith, such as in Numbers 5:6.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 says that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we trust in the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from. At no point is trusting in the cross ever presented as something that we just mentally affirm to be historically accurate. Even the demons believe that Jesus rose from the dead, so we need to understand and trust in what the cross means for how we should live our lives.



Everything that Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount was in accordance with the OT. Kind of like a parent watching their toddler who is stumbling in the process of learning to walk, God wants us to succeed, He is cheering us on, and He has infinite patience for those who are seeking by faith to learn how to follow Him.

Great post.
Not much to add....