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Featured If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by zoidar, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 5
    Matthew 6
    Matthew 7


    7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall.”

    If saving faith is just "trust in the cross" how to make sense of Jesus' sermon on the mount?

    Honestly I don't know if I can live up to what Jesus says in this sermon ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
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  2. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman New Member

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    James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    It is good to have faith, but the works are important.
     
  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Nobody can. That's why we ask forgiveness.

    Jeremiah 31:31-34
    “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    Luke 22:20
    And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
     
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  4. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    If by your question you mean the conflict between the protestant notion of "faith alone" and the teachings of Jesus, you're on to something.

    Aside from that, look to the example of Peter walking on water. Peter saw Jesus, who was capable of doing all those things you mentioned, walking on water. Peter tried his best to do it also. But as hard as he tried he couldn't do it. He cried out "Lord save me".

    That's the case of every man. You can try all you want, and you must try your hardest, but in the end we cannot be perfect through our own efforts. When we begin to drown in our shortcomings we all need a savior.

    The Didache chapter 6 has it:

    "For if you are able to bear all the yoke of the Lord, you will be perfect; but if you are not able, what you are able that do. "
     
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  5. Goodhuman

    Goodhuman New Member

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    Talk for yourself! Me and others can!
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    SOrry. My mistake.

    Romans 3:23
    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    Romans 11:32
    For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

    Ecclesiastes 7:20

    Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

    1 John 1:8-10
    If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    Romans 3:9
    What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

    Galatians 3:22
    But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.


    Romans 3:19
    Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God.

    1 Thessalonians 2:12
    we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

    2 Thessalonians 2:14
    To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Peter 5:10
    And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

    1 Peter 5:1
    So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:

    1 Peter 4:13
    But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

    Romans 5:2
    Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Hebrews 4:1
    Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
     
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  7. Amittai

    Amittai Active Member

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    The meaning of the Sermon on the Mount is especially for those christians who are maturing after they already had a full and normal birth, and have fellowship of a church that was believing in the full & normal birth, and have learned to pray and to read Scripture a great deal. It is not the first step to the christian life.

    Don't forget turning the other cheek is to show up your oppressor's risk of demeaning himself, and offering to go the extra mile meant at that time inviting your oppressor to get himself into trouble.

    The things in the sermon can't be done without well founded Holy Spirit power for relating and enduring.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  8. BBAS 64

    BBAS 64 Contributor Supporter

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    Good Day, Pete

    I am currently read this book on that sermon and have not gotten that far so I will leave the question and recommend the book it is fantastic.

    Studies in the Sermon on the Mount [D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones]

    In Him,

    Bill
     
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  9. not under law

    not under law Active Member

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    Have you met any Christian who has even tried to obey every command of Christ in the Gospels? I haven't and that is over decades. How is a believer to obey Christ? By looking to each and every command of his and striving to obey them all? If that is true, we are all guilty. Paul told us how to obey Christ's law:
    Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfill(fulfill)the law of Christ Gal6:2
    Jesus teaching can be summed up as examples of love God and love your fellow man. Paul knew that, hence what he wrote. The more you love others, the more you will be in line with Jesus words
     
  10. Amittai

    Amittai Active Member

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    So true !!! Thank you !!!
     
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

    Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith (James 2:14-18), but not the essence of faith and not the means by which we obtain salvation. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
     
  12. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Concerning Matt. 7:24-27, that you have posted here, the rock that the house was built on.

    Do you remember in Matt. 16:13-20 when Christ asked the disciples "who do you say that I am?"

    Peter said, "you are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "you are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

    It was not Peter that was the rock, it was "you are the Christ, the Son of the living God" that was the rock that the Church would be built on.

    In Matt. 7:24-27 is the same rock, the rock of faith.
     
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  13. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    There's no conflict with this. The one principle concerns redemption. But the other deals with our mission in this life, how to live as God would have us live.

    Look at it this way. We are sinners, but God sent his Son to make it possible for us to be forgiven and to live eternally. We are saved by Faith in Him and his sacrifice for us.

    But that doesn't mean is it irrelevant how we live the rest of our lives.

    If we do genuinely have Faith in the Savior we necessarily will want to behave as He would have us behave. Therefore, Jesus taught us both to 1) trust in his saving work and 2) as his disciples to relate to the rest of mankind in a certain manner. The Sermon on the Mount was part of that instruction given to his followers.

    But you'll say that you cannot hope to adhere to everything that it calls for. Not perfectly, anyhow. That is not the point. Doing everything that was mentioned in the Sermon is not what saves us. Yet this is the agenda of those who have been saved. If we fail at times, we still have the agenda, and so we start again.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    IN Matthew 7 Jesus describes it as a path "the narrow road" of those who hear and obey the words of Christ and the "wide road" of those who turn from it.

    If you are "on the path" then you "Choose" to surrender to Christ not just the first day - but every day.

    If you are "on the path" then if you do sin - then John says "we have an advocate with the Father" and we go to Him with repentance and find forgiveness 1 John 1:9

    Your question is about judging yourself to be sinless. We are to test ourselves to "See IF" we are in the faith" 2 cor 13:5... but it does not say "to see IF you are sinless".

    Romans 8:13-16 says that our assurance is based on the fact that we can go to God in real life as often as we like and find out if "the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we ARE the children of God"

    Rom 8
    13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

    You have assurance when God the Holy Spirit gives it to you - telling you that you are the child of God.. and when you sin and choose repentance instead of "no big deal -- just keep on doing that"
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I made a career out of it, seeking first the kingdom and receiving my needs from God's hand. Did I become perfect? Yes, in wearing Christ's righteousness instead of my own. In this doing as good as possible and trusting Christ to atone for my lack.

    I believe it is not possible to be a Christian without following the Sermon on the Mount.
     
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Who can..I mean completely.

    I think we are supposed to hop on the horse and ride, we fall off, ask forgiveness and get to riding again...it's a battle. All God expects is "sincerely" trying, just as a parent would expect from their child.

    I personally started off terribly, and slowly but surely, I did better and better.

    Is there some particular areas where you think you'll have trouble?
     
  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    ...and a few lines later he likens Peter to Satan. So if the rock was Peter's confession of faith, it didn't last very long! Or the church-building with it. Probably a different way of understanding the passage would be the correct one.
     
  18. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    Peter was not likened unto Satan. Peter simply did not understand that Christ must die.

    Satan was working deceitfully through Peter, denying the Cross, which Christ would not tolerate.

    I used the scripture in the correct manner regardless of your understanding.
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Well, Christ did call him "Satan." According to the verse, Christ turned to Peter and said those words, so there is little doubt about who or what he was referring to. Maybe some people prefer another interpretation, although it's hard to see how that would be possible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  20. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Newbie Supporter

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    I'll be as firm as you Albion, you should use the correct interpretation.

    Jesus was speaking to Peter but addressing Satan. "Get behind me Satan," He was rebuking Satan working through Peter, were the exact words Christ used in the wilderness when being tempted by Satan.
     
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