If Reincarnation is true then Jesus was sacrificed for no good

[_-iconoclast-_]

Good day! The Lord Buddha transcended dukkha (suffering/discontentment/unease/displeasure) ... the core problem plaguing the world.

Thank you for the reply.

So buddha overcame suffering. Have you overcome suffering?

Cheers

 

[ananda]

Thank you for the reply.

So buddha overcame suffering. Have you overcome suffering?

Cheers

I have not yet completely overcome suffering ... but, following the training involved in His progressive Path, I have overcome initial stages of suffering. Completion of the Path is nibbana (nirvana), the final unbinding from all suffering.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

I have not yet completely overcome suffering ... but, following the training involved in His progressive Path, I have overcome initial stages of suffering. Completion of the Path is nibbana (nirvana), the final unbinding from all suffering.

Thank you for the reply.

What initial stages of suffering have you overcome. Is there anything specific?

Cheers

 

[ananda]

Thank you for the reply.

What initial stages of suffering have you overcome. Is there anything specific?

Cheers

It is difficult to quantify an internal state of mind ... but I will say I have far fewer worries in life than I used to have - including worries about physical death; I have removed the mass of suffering associated with maximalism/consumerism, and I find great contentment in owning close to nothing (compared to the average Westerner, I would say). Being content with little, I participate far less in the "rat race" than most others around me.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

It is difficult to quantify an internal state of mind ... but I will say I have far fewer worries in life than I used to have - including worries about physical death; I have removed the mass of suffering associated with maximalism/consumerism, and I find great contentment in owning close to nothing (compared to the average Westerner, I would say). Being content with little, I participate far less in the "rat race" than most others around me.

A peace of mind is fine security. Im in a very similar situation.

I have very little worries, i have less to fear death/afterlife, i believe im not effected by consumerism and i am grateful for the little i have, and have no desire for materialism.

I believe i fly low under the radar as well.

Please excuse me but I do not know if i would equate that to a state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship.

What experiences got you to this state of tranquility and is your aim to seek emptiness?

Cheers

 

[ananda]

A peace of mind is fine security. Im in a very similar situation.

I have very little worries, i have less to fear death/afterlife, i believe im not effected by consumerism and i am grateful for the little i have, and have no desire for materialism.

I believe i fly low under the radar as well.

Please excuse me but I do not know if i would equate that to a state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship.

Excellent, so your path has served you well, it seems.

What experiences got you to this state of tranquility and is your aim to seek emptiness?

Cheers

I systematically follow the Buddha's Eightfold Path in order to reach nibbana ... but not necessarily emptiness. Yourself?

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

I systematically follow the Buddha's Eightfold Path in order to reach nibbana ... but not necessarily emptiness

Hello and thanks for your reply. Hope u are well

Nirvāṇa (/nɪərˈvɑːnə, -ˈvænə, nər-/;[1] Sanskrit:निर्वाण nirvāṇa  [nirʋaːɳə]; Pali: निब्बान nibbāna ;Prakrit: णिव्वाण ṇivvāṇa ) literally means "blown out", as in an oil lamp

In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to realization of non-self and emptiness, marking the end of rebirth by stilling the fires that keep the process of rebirth going.

The state of nirvana is also described in Buddhism as cessation of all afflictions, cessation of all actions, cessation of rebirths and suffering that are a consequence of afflictions and actions

In the link you supplied 'The Noble Eightfold Path The Way to the End of Suffering' there is a section i would like to highlight

Thus the two principles penetrate and include one another, the formula of the Four Noble Truths containing the Eightfold Path and the Noble Eightfold Path containing the Four Truths.

There is, however, a way to end this cycle,[8][note 4]namely by attaining nirvana, cessation of craving, whereafter rebirth and associateddukkha will no longer arise again.[note 5][9] This can be accomplished by following the eightfold path,[note 1] restraining oneself, cultivating discipline, and practicingmindfulness and meditation.

These above statements seem to suggest that nirvana is the aim of buddhism and its core conclusion.

Nirvana seems to imply 'blowing out a fire or light' which would result in darkness - the non-existence or lack of light.

If you are not seeking emptiness what are you seeking?

. Yourself?

I follow the teachings of Jesus and live my life with faith, hope and love - in God.

Cheers hey

 

[ananda]

Hello and thanks for your reply. Hope u are well

Thank you, and likewise.

Nirvāṇa (/nɪərˈvɑːnə, -ˈvænə, nər-/;[1] Sanskrit:निर्वाण nirvāṇa  [nirʋaːɳə]; Pali: निब्बान nibbāna ;Prakrit: णिव्वाण ṇivvāṇa ) literally means "blown out", as in an oil lamp

In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to realization of non-self and emptiness, marking the end of rebirth by stilling the fires that keep the process of rebirth going.

The state of nirvana is also described in Buddhism as cessation of all afflictions, cessation of all actions, cessation of rebirths and suffering that are a consequence of afflictions and actions

In the link you supplied 'The Noble Eightfold Path The Way to the End of Suffering' there is a section i would like to highlight

Thus the two principles penetrate and include one another, the formula of the Four Noble Truths containing the Eightfold Path and the Noble Eightfold Path containing the Four Truths.

There is, however, a way to end this cycle,[8][note 4]namely by attaining nirvana, cessation of craving, whereafter rebirth and associateddukkha will no longer arise again.[note 5][9] This can be accomplished by following the eightfold path,[note 1] restraining oneself, cultivating discipline, and practicingmindfulness and meditation.

These above statements seem to suggest that nirvana is the aim of buddhism and its core conclusion.

Nirvana seems to imply 'blowing out a fire or light' which would result in darkness - the non-existence or lack of light.

If you are not seeking emptiness what are you seeking?

The Sanskrit word "nirvana" as you present it, is commonly understood in that way by many Mahayana sects (an extinguishing & non-self). However, the Theravada (which I practice) has a somewhat different view on the related Pali word "nibbana".

IMO the far more accurate translation of nibbana is "unbinding". Here is a quote from Prof. Glenn Wallis, a Pali scholar & Buddhist translator, and from Thanissaro Bhikkhu, a scholar-monk & translator in the Theravada tradition:

"[Thanisssaro:] The Buddha's choice of the word Unbinding (nibbana) - which literally means the extinguishing of a fire - derives from the way that the physics of fire was viewed at his time. As fired burned, it was seen as clinging to its fuel in a state of entrapment and agitation. When it went out, it let go of its fuel, growing calm and free. Thus, when the Indians of his time saw a fire going out, they did not feel that they were watching extinction. Rather, they were seeing a metaphorical lesson in how freedom could be attained by letting go ... the negative prefix (ni) plus binding (bbana): unbinding ...

[Buddha:] a [practitioner's] ... consciousness stands still ... owing to its stillness, it is contented ... owing to its contentment, it is not agitated ... Not agitated, [the practitioner] is totally 'nibbana-ized' right within" (SN 3.22)" - Dhammapada, Glenn Wallis​

Nibbana therefore, to me, refers simply to unbinding and its resultant cessation of dukkha/suffering. It has no direct connotations regarding existence or non-existence, or of light or lack of light.

In a sense, we advocate moving our attention from the most obvious, superficial layers of reality, to focus on the most fundamental layer instead - in order to find & address the root of all the problems which manifest in the more superficial layers. We leave the cosmological model (e.g. questions about physical life, eternal life, etc.) to the more fundamental phenomenological model way of thinking (e.g. sensory & mental experiences). To use a metaphor: we stop investigating the nature of the icons on our computer desktop & focus on the quantum states underlying them all.

I follow the teachings of Jesus and live my life with faith, hope and love - in God.

Cheers hey

If it serves you well and helps you, then I wish all the best to you in your journey!

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

IMO the far more accurate translation of nibbana is "unbinding"

In 'Theravada' buddhism, nirvana is a state of release from bonds or restraints?

Once you are completely 'unbound', what happens next?

I notice that Thanissaro Bhikkhu in his explanation says 'Thanisssaro:] The Buddha's choice of the word Unbinding (nibbana) - which literally means the extinguishing of a fire'.

If unbinding is the more accurate meaning why is extinguishing a fire still used in context?

If it serves you well and helps you, then I wish all the best to you in your jou

Even though you never stop learning. A journey implies going from one place to another. I have already found what i seek spiritually.

For me the journey is over. I am at my destination. I am established through Jesus.

Cheers look forward to your reply

 

[ananda]

In 'Theravada' buddhism, nirvana is a state of release from bonds or restraints?

Once you are completely 'unbound', what happens next?

Nibbana is simply a release from suffering. What needs to happen next? It addresses my most fundamental question regarding life.

I notice that Thanissaro Bhikkhu in his explanation says 'Thanisssaro:] The Buddha's choice of the word Unbinding (nibbana) - which literally means the extinguishing of a fire'.

If unbinding is the more accurate meaning why is extinguishing a fire still used in context?

The emphasis is not on the extinguishing of the fire itself, but on how it goes out.

Even though you never stop learning. A journey implies going from one place to another. I have already found what i seek spiritually.

For me the journey is over. I am at my destination. I am established through Jesus.

Cheers look forward to your reply

Likewise, I am established in the Teachings of the Awakened One. At the same time, it is still also a journey as I have more to master in his Teachings.

 

[xpower]

Thank you for the reply.

So buddha overcame suffering. Have you overcome suffering?

Cheers

Gautama buddha's idea of overcame suffering was by not existing "the true death". Non-existence is the goal of buddhism. the rejection of life.

 

[ananda]

Gautama buddha's idea of overcame suffering was by not existing "the true death". Non-existence is the goal of buddhism. the rejection of life.

I would say that is a mistake, and a misunderstanding of the Lord's teachings.

He said: "I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by some ... [who say], 'Gotama ... declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' But as I am not that, as I do not say that, so I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by those" Alagaddumpama Sutta (MN 22)

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Nibbana is simply a release from suffering. What needs to happen next? It addresses my most fundamental question regarding life

Why do you need to release or 'unbind' yourself from suffering?

What happens after you are 'unbound'?

What is the purpose for doing so?

Please excuse me. Do you not know what happens next - is that a form of uncertainty?

Does not buddhism teach the reason to escape karma?

The emphasis is not on the extinguishing of the fire itself, but on how it goes out.

So nirvana does relate to extinguishing a flame?

Likewise, I am established in the Teachings of the Awakened One.

At the same time, it is still also a journey as I have more to master in his Teachings.

So you havent arrived to your destination yet. What is your destination?

Cheers

 

[ananda]

Why do you need to release or 'unbind' yourself from suffering?

It is simply the motivation for every action in life.

What happens after you are 'unbound'?

Free from suffering.

What is the purpose for doing so?

To be free from suffering.

Please excuse me. Do you not know what happens next - is that a form of uncertainty?

There is nothing more, I expect.

Does not buddhism teach the reason to escape karma?

The process of kamma is suffering.

So nirvana does relate to extinguishing a flame?

Unbinding the flame, I would say.

So you havent arrived to your destination yet. What is your destination?

Freedom from suffering, aka nibbana.

Cheers

Likewise!

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

It is simply the motivation for every action in life.

The process of kamma is suffering.

Hey hey

How is suffering the motivation for every action?

If kamma is action who is governing the process, ie do you believe that there is something that regulates and meters the consequences for bad kamma or good kamma?

Free from suffering

Freedom from suffering, aka nibbana.

Do you mean free from materialism, consumerism and attachment or free from good or bad action?

There is nothing more, I expect

Curious, after you have acheived this state of 'unbinding' and you are free from kamma. You will have no self, do no action and have no desire? What will you be?

Unbinding the flame, I would say.

Is the concept of nirvana to release a flame from its bonds or restraints? The flame doesnt not extinguish it becomes revealed?

Thank you friend ")

 

[ananda]

Hey hey

How is suffering the motivation for every action?

It simply is. For example, I eat because starving is suffering. I stop eating because overeating is suffering. I eat tasty foods because bland foods can be suffering. I eat bland foods because eating overly tasty foods when I'm sick is suffering. I sleep because staying awake too long is suffering. I get up because staying in bed too long is suffering. I seek out entertainment because boredom is suffering. I seek out other entertainment because too much one kind can be suffering. Etc. etc. ... so on and so forth with literally every other action, from the search for gods & saviors to work and play to needing to use the bathroom.

If kamma is action who is governing the process, ie do you believe that there is something that regulates and meters the consequences for bad kamma or good kamma?

I cannot discern at this time if there is a "someone" or "something" governing the kamma-vipaka process. I only operate on what I do know, that kamma-vipaka is a very real thing, and live my life accordingly. Engaging in speculations regarding the "someone" or something" can only result in suffering, as it is unknown at this point in time. Perhaps once I reach higher stages of awakening, I will one day come to know for myself.

Must there be a "someone" or "something" behind the process?

Do you mean free from materialism, consumerism and attachment or free from good or bad action?

Free from from everything - attachments to, and ignorance about, the world/samsara.

Curious, after you have acheived this state of 'unbinding' and you are free from kamma. You will have no self, do no action and have no desire? What will you be?

Free from suffering. Those who are free from suffering have no motivation to "do" anything, because there is nothing left to be done. We act in the world only because we perceive suffering in one form or another.

Is the concept of nirvana to release a flame from its bonds or restraints? The flame doesnt not extinguish it becomes revealed?

The flame is simply a manifestation of multiple elements, such as heat + fire + light + fuel, etc. Or, a car is simply a manifestation of tires + engine + frame + etc. Likewise, a human is a manifestation of the five khandas, attachment to which causes us grief and suffering.

Thank you friend ")

Likewise, and thank you.

 

[_-iconoclast-_]

Hello and Thank you for the discussion.

It simply is

This response is an appeal to authority. Who is the authority we are supposed to accept on this matter?

simply is. For example, I eat because starving is suffering. I stop eating because overeating is suffering.

In this case i can solve my suffering by eating. In the other case i could be more moderate to my consumption.


To remove ALL suffering would one have to stop eating? Wait starving would be suffering. How do we fix this situation? I still need to do action ie moderate consumption but do it as not to ever be hungry nor full?

I cannot discern at this time if there is a "someone" or "something" governing the kamma-vipaka process.

Please excuse me i do not know how else to ask this. Do buddhist accept hindu gods?

Must there be a "someone" or "something" behind the process?

It is interesting that you use the word process - a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end.

To achieve nirvana you have to guide the process? In relation to the above question, you must be behind the process to get you to nirvana.

You are in a 'binded' state. You must unbind yourself. Something has to guide uou to nothing?

Or do you mean

Process a natural series of changes?

I work with my hands for i living and see no other way. If i want something to happen, i make it happen. Rules and laws govern many things visible and unseeable.

I believe in cause and effect.
I believe that a desirable outcome has a purpose. The purpose is justifiable for a reason. A thought is behind a reason. A thing is behind a thought.

Free from suffering.

Those who are free from suffering have no motivation to "do" anything, because there is nothing left to be done. We act in the world only because we perceive suffering in one form or another.

Would you act in this world if you perceived someones suffering. If by helping this someone, you would suffer as a result?

Would a state of no action be nothingness?

If i were to remove all attachments, all desires and all actions would that not leave me empty?

The flame is simply a manifestation of multiple elements, such as heat + fire + light + fuel, etc. Or, a car is simply a manifestation of tires + engine + frame + etc. Likewise, a human is a manifestation of the five khandas, attachment to which causes us grief and suffering.

Thank you for this explanation of the manifestation of the flame. Please excuse me but this response seems to overlook the original substance.

Does the flame unbind or does it extinguish? Is the aim of unbinding to extinguish the flame or reveal it?

Cheers again

 

[ananda]

Hello and Thank you for the discussion.

Likewise.

This response is an appeal to authority. Who is the authority we are supposed to accept on this matter?

It's not an appeal to authority, besides my own direct experience with Reality. Therefore, since my statement was a assertion regarding my own experiences, I suppose I am my own authority.

In this case i can solve my suffering by eating. In the other case i could be more moderate to my consumption.

To remove ALL suffering would one have to stop eating? Wait starving would be suffering. How do we fix this situation? I still need to do action ie moderate consumption but do it as not to ever be hungry nor full?

Well, the statement was meant to point out that the basic nature regarding Reality (as I see it) involves suffering, at every point.

Please excuse me i do not know how else to ask this. Do buddhist accept hindu gods?

Could you please clarify what you mean by "accept"?

It is interesting that you use the word process - a series of actions or steps taken in order to achieve a particular end.

To achieve nirvana you have to guide the process? In relation to the above question, you must be behind the process to get you to nirvana.

You are in a 'binded' state. You must unbind yourself. Something has to guide uou to nothing?

Or do you mean

Process a natural series of changes?

I work with my hands for i living and see no other way. If i want something to happen, i make it happen. Rules and laws govern many things visible and unseeable.

I believe in cause and effect.
I believe that a desirable outcome has a purpose. The purpose is justifiable for a reason. A thought is behind a reason. A thing is behind a thought.

The basic Law governing Reality as seen in Buddhism is the Law of Kamma-Vipaka: cause and effect. A derived Law is thus the process of dependent origination - one thing causes another which serves as the cause for another effect, etc. The process of unbinding is guided by intention (kamma), to the state of nibbana (no suffering) - not to "nothing".

Would you act in this world if you perceived someones suffering. If by helping this someone, you would suffer as a result? Would a state of no action be nothingness? If i were to remove all attachments, all desires and all actions would that not leave me empty?

All attachments causes suffering. All action is motivated by the desire to relieve that experience of suffering. A state of no action is caused by a state of no suffering.

Thank you for this explanation of the manifestation of the flame. Please excuse me but this response seems to overlook the original substance.

Does the flame unbind or does it extinguish? Is the aim of unbinding to extinguish the flame or reveal it?

Cheers again

The unbinding (on a fundamental level of reality) causes the flame to appear to extinguish (on a less fundamental level of reality).

In a sense, we advocate moving our attention from the most obvious, superficial layers of reality, to focus on the most fundamental layer instead - in order to find & address the root of all the problems which manifest in the more superficial layers. We leave the cosmological model (e.g. questions about physical life, eternal life, etc.) to the more fundamental phenomenological model way of thinking (e.g. sensory & mental experiences).

To use a metaphor: we stop investigating the nature of the icons on our computer desktop (or the nature of the flame and its apparent disappearance) to focus on the fundamental quantum states underlying them all.

 

[dlamberth]

This response is an appeal to authority. Who is the authority we are supposed to accept on this matter?

That would be something called "Life!"

 

[TheOldWays]

It's not an appeal to authority, besides my own direct experience with Reality. Therefore, since my statement was a assertion regarding my own experiences, I suppose I am my own authority.

Indeed. In spiritual matters, the only authority one should really answer to, is their own.