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If Protestantism is true, why they are not united? (2)

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Alonso_Castillo, Jul 25, 2014.

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  1. Standing Up

    Standing Up On and on

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    Well, we could go into "separated brethren" and "communities (not churches)" but that would play into their division.

    Might be interesting, Zion vs Sinai. Which church comes closest?
     
  2. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Is someone calling them non-Christian? If not, then we aren't dealing with apostasy.
     
  3. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Then we need to define Christianity better?
    Heck, the Muslims believe in Jesus and even revere Him as a great Prophet sent to the Jews [and also born of a virgin].

    Based on that, what makes them any more non-Christian than some sects within Christianity, such as the Mormons and JWs?

    http://www.christianforums.com/t5615012-46/#post36126961
    Jesus Christ, was he sent for all mankind?



    .
     
  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Probably that Mohammad never was a Christian, never accepted the Bible, and so didn't abandon Christianity. To be an apostate you have once to have been a Christian and then gave it up.
     
  5. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Guest

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    I doubt that Joseph Smith was ever a Christian. He certainly did not join any church. I would compare him with Mohammed and the Mormons with the Muslims.
     
  6. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    "The church states this...the church states that." What about the Bible? Do you not have one?

    Rom 5:1-2
    1 Therefore...
    being justified by faith....we have peace with :bow:God through our :bow:Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 By whom also we have....
    access by faith.... into this grace wherein we stand... and... rejoice:clap:... in hope of the glory of God.


    "The church states that even an atheist can be saved". No kidding, Sherlock.

    I wish you catholics could actually hear yourselves.
     
  7. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    A rose by any other name is still a rose. Listen to the undertone of labels.
     
  8. Restoresmysoul

    Restoresmysoul Regular Member

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    Maybe I misunderstand what apostasy is. Maybe I should rethink how I use that word. However, some translations use this word and maybe the translators misunderstand the intent of the original language. I'll be more careful with this word in the future.
     
  9. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    Don't worry. Even if Jesus was not capable of clearing us of sins, certainly a little time in the fires of purgatory or cenfessional will do the trick.
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Yes, that it the meaning of the word. However, it becomes a little bit trickier when we consider that it is possible to abandon the faith and yet claim to be holding to it. While the conventional example is of someone raised a Christian who decides it's all bunk and goes to Buddhism or Atheism, for example, there are those people who insist that Christ was a swell guy and taught wonderful Socialist political principles, yada yada yada such that they are denying the faith but insisting that they are seeing it more clearly that you do. That would still be apostasy but much more difficult to nail down.

    You're right that we all do well to use the term only with care and definitely not just to denounce a Christian who holds some strange beliefs about the afterlife, the authority of pastors, or how salvation comes, etc.
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Although LDS authors invariably skip over these facts, his mother was a Christian and he considered himself to be a Christian before his visions started. He studied the usual Protestant denominations (Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc.), seeking to decide if he should join one of them; and he did join the Methodist Church a few years prior to founding his own church (known now as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).
     
  12. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    Not attending Sunday mass can be a mortal sin if one does so while knowing the wickedness of the act, understanding that doing so is a grave sin, and choosing to do it without any constraint or mitigating factor that in some way reduces one's freedom in the matter. This was explained in the quote at the top of this post. So I am not entirely convinced that what you've said about what you know is accurate.

    As an aside have you noticed how grave sin is discussed in the verses immediately following the verse that warns Christians not to neglect assembling together for worship?
    Hebrews 10:23-27 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering (for he is faithful that hath promised), And let us consider one another, to provoke unto charity and to good works: Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries.​
     
  13. Restoresmysoul

    Restoresmysoul Regular Member

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    I always thought apostasy was when someone departed from sound doctrine or followed false doctrine while still claiming to be a Christian. Examples of what I considered apostasy are teachers and their followers who do not keep the words of Christ and the words of His apostles (Mathew, James, Peter, John, Paul), but instead they seem to throw out these commands along with the law. (John 14 teaches us that those who love Him will keep his words.)

    Prosperity preachers are examples of this. Jesus said not to store riches on earth but only in heaven, yet prosperity preachers teach about being blessed with expensive cars, Homes and even property. I once heard a preacher say that he sold his old Mercedes and the next day he had a brand new one in the driveway, he was suggesting that God blessed him with this expensive car. This preacher also said that the bible teaches us to sow financial seeds into good soil, he was asking for money to help the ministry. This man seemed to be misquoting the parable of the Sower, and if that's true then he misunderstood the parable altogether. The Gospel of Mark records Jesus as teaching his disciples that if they cant understand the parable of the sower then they cant understand any other parable. And so this seems like he must be a bad teacher.

    These things are what I considered apostasy, but perhaps its closer to heresy?

    Kenneth Copeland said that he bought 300 acres which he lives on, but he's not a farmer, he just wanted the land to live on, but again Jesus said not to store up riches on earth but in heaven, and Acts 2 seems to suggest that its good to sell land and give to the poor. It seems like these preachers are bad examples for their flock and it seems that maybe they lack discernment. I admit I could be wrong but I struggle to see how I am, I just find it hard to trust their doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    No, that would amount to heresy, but apostasy requires a real renunciation of the faith.

    I understand, but those preachers still believe in Christ as Savior, etc. don't they? They are simply charlatans or have twisted up something that does not bear upon the nature of God, Christ, the sacraments, salvation, or etc.

    I think that's correct.

    Well, there's plenty of room--and good reason, you'd say--for denouncing them as false teachers and bad examples, but without using the word "apostasy," right? ;)
     
  15. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    Yeah. I have heard that before too.

    Twisting Scriptures into a rope of bondage. I am not surprised.

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7840775/



    Before you respond off the top of your catholic head, please go to page 20 post 200 on this very thread and receive a little illumination.
     
  16. Restoresmysoul

    Restoresmysoul Regular Member

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    Yes.
     
  17. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    responding to what? A childish taunt?
     
  18. Restoresmysoul

    Restoresmysoul Regular Member

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    I'll need to think more on this, John 15 and Mathew 7 raise more questions.
     
  19. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    It is far worse than a taunt to tell church members it is a mortal sin to miss mass when mass is a catholic concoction. It is not less than spiritual terrorism wrought by a lie. I have asked many time before about the post 200 on page 20 on this thread. I have never received a response from anyone except LLOJ and he said "Good question" when I asked what church someone was talking about.

    You, and many others, know that post is there. No one has even offered to chip at it. It is as solid as a Rock and hammering would only produce noise. I don't even need safety glasses
    .
     
  20. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

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    Seems to me that your objections are about interpreting Hebrews 10:23-27. I'll stick with what the Catholic Church teaches. You can do as you please.
     
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