If love does no wrong, how does love go to war with Russia?

[dqhall]

Before the war, 38-40 million people lived in Ukraine. Europe was able to accommodate about 7 million. Of these 7 million, more than half have already returned to Ukraine, because the EU does not have the resources to feed, clothe, shelter for so many people. Some people are lucky. But not everyone can go EU. There is nowhere to go.

Russia is destroying homes to increase the number of refugees. This is also their weapon. And poor people have nowhere to go...

The more the West helps, the less our people die both on the front lines and in the rear. God has now placed us in dependence on the mercy of the inhabitants of Western countries.

We understand that you have to sacrifice comfort. But it can to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of our people.

I am not sure if Ukraine has enough resources to defeat the more numerous Russians. The Iranian drone strikes on Ukrainian power plants is a grievous thing. America does not need the expenses of war. Zelensky asking for Crimea, Luhansk, etc. seemed a bit much. People are tired of Zelensky asking them to give more. Ukraine is spending ammunition and weapons faster than the U.S. can replace them. Much of Ukraine’s industrial production is shut down. The Russians restricted grain exports causing more hunger. There is a worker shortage and high inflation in the U.S. Sending men to war instead of to making things society needs causes more poverty. Ukraine has not been admitted to NATO. NATO nations are suffering high energy prices. German factories are closed due to want of natural gas. The more natural gas that is available, the higher the risk of global warming. The Caribbean Sea was 1-3 degrees F higher than normal when Hurricane Ian formed. This hurricane did $100 billion in damage. Some of that was damage to my home. There is a verse toward the end of Luke’s Gospel about rising seas and men feeling faint upon seeing what is coming. I suppose Russia is to blame. Blaming someone else does not fix the problem when I also suffer from my own mistakes. Innocent people got killed. So it was in the time of Jesus and is today.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Gospel. A poor evangelical widow donated 2 mites (everything she had for food), and God appreciated this more than the sacrifices of the rich who donated the surplus. The more painful the sacrifice for God, the more God appreciates it.

 

[dqhall]

Gospel. A poor evangelical widow donated 2 mites (everything she had for food), and God appreciated this more than the sacrifices of the rich who donated the surplus. The more painful the sacrifice for God, the more God appreciates it.

She gave her money for the maintenance of a Jewish temple and the priestly establishment.

These people are asking for precision guided weapons and for Russia to cede land to them. This is beyond donating a hryvnia to a soup kitchen for poor Ukrainians. Russia has a larger population and much of its industry intact. Consider how many more are going to die trying to gain victory in Ukraine? How much will it cost? Lives are being sacrificed. The bombardments are deafening.

Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice;
and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

 

[Rescued One]

dqhall, you have your opinion. Americans can't even agree with each other!

 

[Rescued One]

I remember Russia mobilized tanks, personnel carriers and helicopters towards Ukrainian borders. Russian naval ships blockaded Ukraine’s ports. Moscow said they were doing a training exercise. Russia did a surprise attack during the darkness of night. It was going down like Hitler’s blitzkrieg. Putin threatened to decapitate Ukraine’s government. Members of parliament in Kiev went to the armory and were issued rifles. They decided it would be better to defend themselves by fighting. Neither side accepted the Gospel, did they?

Why can’t they just forgive each other, stop shooting and return to the borders of January 1, 2022?

You already know why. So your purpose in asking is what?

 

[Rescued One]

...
No one is against the Russian people as a whole. But their propaganda has worked so well that by killing brothers (even former ones) they think they are doing good...

Amen!

 

[ValeriyK2022]

She gave her money for the maintenance of a Jewish temple and the priestly establishment.

These people are asking for precision guided weapons and for Russia to cede land to them.

By the way, the leaders of Ukraine are asking for high-precision missiles precisely out of philanthropy. With a high-precision missile, you can hit the ammunition depots of the enemy army and there them will be nothing to fight with. They will have to retreat. Howitzers and multiple launch rocket systems destroy everything without sorting: military installations, people, civilians installations and infrastructure.

 

[The Liturgist]

I think rather than thinking about new ways of killing each other the people should be thinking about peace and the resumption of Christian fraternity.

 

[dqhall]

By the way, the leaders of Ukraine are asking for high-precision missiles precisely out of philanthropy. With a high-precision missile, you can hit the ammunition depots of the enemy army and there them will be nothing to fight with. They will have to retreat. Howitzers and multiple launch rocket systems destroy everything without sorting: military installations, people, civilians installations and infrastructure.

The United States gave Ukraine Himars, what happened to these units? The Russians found and destroyed most of the Himars launchers. Zelensky decided he does not want to only defend Kiev, he wants borders given to Russia long ago. He wants Americans to pay for it. The Ukrainians were using very expensive missiles to take out minor targets like personnel carriers and trucks. The Russians destroyed a warehouse full of missiles. They captured others. U.S. taxpayers are being asked to sacrifice more. The Republicans want to cut Social Security retirement/disability funding and cut Medicare health benefits for those over 65 to balance the budget. The U.S. is expected to help defend Europe and the Asian Pacific. Ukraine is not even NATO. Much of Europe including Ukraine was not spending much money on their own defense. They should not think a few U.S. missiles will solve all their problems. Should Ukraine be making its own weapons? What if the American public elects a government that does not want to give free weapons to Ukraine? I will want to get Medicare and Social Security, if it is not bankrupted. I do not see the philanthropy of missiles.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Probably the only way to love russia morally is to restrain them without harming them.

If we had the technology and power, we could prevent them from invading without hurting them. But we haven't got this option and so all we can do is hurt real people on the ground, destroying the lives for maybe for generations.

If we have no material solution, the only solution available to us is spiritual.
A spiritual solution is probably the only real solution anyway.
The spiritual solution involves seeing the russians as our own people. Opening ourselves up to them and trying to get closer and closer - personal experiences is the place to start. Getting russians to spend time living in the west and us going over there - intermarrying, mixing and merging is probably part of the solution.

If we don't do that now, that ship will have sailed and war might be inevitable. god might say we are guilty to a point because we didn't do something about it when we had the chance.
If war has a single beginning, it probably started decades before, and it's probably not one single trigger being pulled, it's probably triggers being pulled millions of times by ordinary people like us. wars are started in conversations over the garden fence.

???

 

[dqhall]

Probably the only way to love russia morally is to restrain them without harming them.

If we had the technology and power, we could prevent them from invading without hurting them. But we haven't got this option and so all we can do is hurt real people on the ground, destroying the lives for maybe for generations.

If we have no material solution, the only solution available to us is spiritual.
A spiritual solution is probably the only real solution anyway.
The spiritual solution involves seeing the russians as our own people. Opening ourselves up to them and trying to get closer and closer - personal experiences is the place to start. Getting russians to spend time living in the west and us going over there - intermarrying, mixing and merging is probably part of the solution.

If we don't do that now, that ship will have sailed and war might be inevitable. god might say we are guilty to a point because we didn't do something about it when we had the chance.
If war has a single beginning, it probably started decades before, and it's probably not one single trigger being pulled, it's probably triggers being pulled millions of times by ordinary people like us. wars are started in conversations over the garden fence.

???

I grew up during the Cold War. Tensions were often high between the totalitarian communist nations and nations practicing democracy. Kennedy used threats to get Russia to back away from setting up nuclear missiles in Cuba. A man named Oswald married a Russian wife. Oswald lived in Russia until he returned to America with his wife. He stalked and murdered John F. Kennedy. Marrying a Soviet Block woman did not make for peace, but war..

My dad was sent to SE Asia during the Vietnam War. He left a wife and two young children near her parents house. Some members of his unit were shot down. He came back with PTSD and occasional fits of rage. War is maddening. My brother and I frequently fought each other. I turned to alcohol to try to get peace and it almost destroyed me. I turned to Jesus and my alcoholism went into remission. Meditating on non-violence may be constructive. Sermon on the Mount is a good text for those trying to repent.

 

[Rescued One]

Confused-by-christianity, I don't agree. War is going to happen. My family is full of sinners like EVERY family, but many in my family are anti-Christian and anti-forgiveness without a desire to even get along. Even people who claim to be Christian don't believe in forgiveness. My grandmother thought people are born Christian! Nonsense!

 

[Rescued One]

Meditation is nice but it won't change people who don't meditate.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Confused-by-christianity, I don't agree. War is going to happen. My family is full of sinners like EVERY family, but many in my family are anti-Christian and anti-forgiveness without a desire to even get along. Even people who claim to be Christian don't believe in forgiveness. My grandmother thought people are born Christian! Nonsense!

That sounds like a pretty hopeless place to be - emotionally.

 

[Rescued One]

That sounds like a pretty hopeless place to be - emotionally.

It was for most of my life, but I'm learning to let go. This is something I can't fix so I can finally stop agonizing over it. Let go and let God.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

It was for most of my life, but I'm learning to let go. This is something I can't fix so I can finally stop agonizing over it. Let go and let God.

I suppose growing above something is a process, I guess the first step in the process it recognising it ?

 

[ValeriyK2022]

I think rather than thinking about new ways of killing each other the people should be thinking about peace and the resumption of Christian fraternity.

The fact is that both in Ukraine and in Russia, Christians make up less than 5% of the population and do not decide anything.
If we look at the actions of politicians, the actions of the Ukrainian leadership are more conducive to peace than the Russian leadership. Russia should not be encouraged to start new wars by seizing at least some territories. So if they really want peace, let them withdraw on position February 23. In addition, President Zelenskyi said that they should stop shelling civilian infrastructure. These are two fair demands. Russia mobilized many new people and buys new weapons. In 1-2 months, it will again have a numerical advantage and will be ready to attack Ukraine. Therefore, Putin wants to take a break for the time being. Giving Russia such a pause is not promoting peace, but promoting war. Through the President of Guinea, he conveys to Zelensky a message about the truce and at the same time does not stop storming Ukrainian positions, moving new troops in the direction of Ukraine and shelling civilian infrastructure. How do you stop it?

Ukraine attacked Russia on the territory of Ukraine? Isn't that funny? In Kherson and Mariupol, poor Ukrainians are still suffering from the occupiers. Any of them can be robbed, raped or killed. Don't you feel sorry for them?

 

[ValeriyK2022]

The United States gave Ukraine Himars, what happened to these units? The Russians found and destroyed most of the Himars launchers. Zelensky decided he does not want to only defend Kiev, he wants borders given to Russia long ago. He wants Americans to pay for it. The Ukrainians were using very expensive missiles to take out minor targets like personnel carriers and trucks. The Russians destroyed a warehouse full of missiles. They captured others. U.S. taxpayers are being asked to sacrifice more. The Republicans want to cut Social Security retirement/disability funding and cut Medicare health benefits for those over 65 to balance the budget. The U.S. is expected to help defend Europe and the Asian Pacific. Ukraine is not even NATO. Much of Europe including Ukraine was not spending much money on their own defense. They should not think a few U.S. missiles will solve all their problems. Should Ukraine be making its own weapons? What if the American public elects a government that does not want to give free weapons to Ukraine? I will want to get Medicare and Social Security, if it is not bankrupted. I do not see the philanthropy of missiles.

Russia's military budget is 20 times smaller than NATO's. But only on the territory of Ukraine, Russia has a quantitative advantage in armaments of 10-20 times. At the same time, Ukraine is advancing liberating her own towns and villages.. Who uses weapons more effectively?

It is dangerous to encourage Russia to seize new territories by force. If the operation in Ukraine is successful, then we may have to help the Baltic countries or Poland and allocate even more funds for this. Therefore, this is not philanthropy, but the security of Europe.

 

[dqhall]

Russia's military budget is 20 times smaller than NATO's. But only on the territory of Ukraine, Russia has a quantitative advantage in armaments of 10-20 times. At the same time, Ukraine is advancing liberating her own towns and villages.. Who uses weapons more effectively?

It is dangerous to encourage Russia to seize new territories by force. If the operation in Ukraine is successful, then we may have to help the Baltic countries or Poland and allocate even more funds for this. Therefore, this is not philanthropy, but the security of Europe.

No one here invited Russia to attack Ukraine or NATO. NATO has a billion people in its nations, a much larger economy and advanced weapons systems. NATO includes the U.S. and Canada. Russia has an economy a little larger than South Korea’s. Ukraine’s economy is smaller than Russia’s. Before this conflict, Trump urged NATO nations to spend more for their military defenses as required by the NATO charter. He was ignored. Some have questioned whether NATO could withstand an attack without splitting apart. NATO is more unified after Russia attempted to take Kiev in three days. Most of NATO wanted to include Sweden and Finland, but Turkey is blocking it. Zelensky applied for NATO membership, but was denied.

Europe needs to build LNG regasification ports. There are LNG tankers with no way to offload cargos.

Zelensky did not allow men 18-60 to leave his country. It is not a sign of freedom, but tyranny. Zelensky was not aware Russia was going to attack until they crossed the border. I am not sure if he can afford to take and hold Crimea like he promised in August as missiles are being spent faster than America can build them. Inflation and skilled labor shortages are a problem.
Zelenskiy vows to restore Ukrainian rule in Russia-annexed Crimea

 

[The Liturgist]

The fact is that both in Ukraine and in Russia, Christians make up less than 5% of the population and do not decide anything.
If we look at the actions of politicians, the actions of the Ukrainian leadership are more conducive to peace than the Russian leadership. Russia should not be encouraged to start new wars by seizing at least some territories. So if they really want peace, let them withdraw on position February 23. In addition, President Zelenskyi said that they should stop shelling civilian infrastructure. These are two fair demands. Russia mobilized many new people and buys new weapons. In 1-2 months, it will again have a numerical advantage and will be ready to attack Ukraine. Therefore, Putin wants to take a break for the time being. Giving Russia such a pause is not promoting peace, but promoting war. Through the President of Guinea, he conveys to Zelensky a message about the truce and at the same time does not stop storming Ukrainian positions, moving new troops in the direction of Ukraine and shelling civilian infrastructure. How do you stop it?

Ukraine attacked Russia on the territory of Ukraine? Isn't that funny? In Kherson and Mariupol, poor Ukrainians are still suffering from the occupiers. Any of them can be robbed, raped or killed. Don't you feel sorry for them?

Forgive me, but what you are stating is merely an argument for Eastern Orthodox Christians in Ukraine and Russia to work together to stamp out the Soviet-imposed atheism and the perverse neo-Paganism of rodnovery by for example working together to teach people Orthodoxy and the evils of abortion, homosexuality and the practice of cremation within the context of clean Christian living, and to increase monastic and clerical vocations. And this must be a collaborative process, devoid of any lingering resentment between either group. Furthermore, it must be coordinated with the Church of Georgia, the Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian and Belarussian Orthodox churches that remain under the Moscow Patriarchate, and the Old Believers, as well as the Armenians and other Oriental Orthodox such as the small population of Assyrians and Syriac Orthodox in Moscow, and also as much as possible, which should be quite a lot I should say, with the Ukrainian Greek Catholics, the Ruthenian Greek Catholics and the Roman Catholics resident in the former Soviet Union.