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If Jesus is God, can these verses be true?

Discussion in 'Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology' started by edpobre, Feb 6, 2002.

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  1. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Ummmm ... When Jesus said to the Father, you are the only true God, Jesus was not God at the time (that is, if the Bible is to be believed)...

    I kind of had the impression that Jesus had returned to heaven prior to Paul's conversion. The Ephesians reference does not of itself indicate whether or not Jesus had ascended prior to Paul's (sorry, Saul's) encounter with him.
     
  2. Revelator

    Revelator New Member

    37
    +0
    I say this, even as man has three parts so does God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That is not a Catholic doctrine that is a bible doctrine. God is God, Jesus is God in the flesh made so he could take away the sins of the world. The reason why men could see Jesus was because he was a man. Jesus is a mans name. Jesus worked, He ate he slept he walked and he talked. He was a man. He died but Praise God he rose three days later. Jesus was and is God, he is just God sent to man asa a man. So John doesn't lie and God doesn't lie.
     
  3. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    Jesus is god and human
    anyone who have some doubts about it cannot be called a believer of christ
     
  4. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    I know we are to believe that Jesus is the son of God. But show me scripture where it says we must agree in trinity... and that we must believe that although Jesus said he was the son of God what he actually meant to say was that he was God in human form. I am sure of God's love for me. I am sure Jesus came to die for me and that he was the son of God. But now you tell me if I don't believe in trinity I have no right to call myself a believer in Christ....who are you to judge? If you want to judge you better perfect yourself...I know a lot of people who may take offense to you not capitalizing God and Christ. You are not the judge...thankfully our loving God is incharge.
    Love and God Bless. :wave:
     
  5. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    ed, I'm not replying back to you :) you have shown me you don't want to read the bible, so I don't want us to simply ram heads :)
     
  6. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Actually Louis, Ed reads a Bible that twists itself to fit the doctrines of the INC. The TEV it is called.

    John 8:40.....Jesus is a man.....yup.....only a man? Nope.
     
  7. Brother_Joey_Gowdy

    Brother_Joey_Gowdy Single and Looking for a Proverbs 31 Wife

    631
    +10
    Christian
    Single
    Who is this Jesus

    [GLOW=red]K i n g J a m e s B I B L E[/GLOW]

    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1st John 5:7 KJV

    Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

    He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:10

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:58-59

    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:29-31

    And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Matthew 8:28-29

    And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. Mark 3:11

    Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.Matthew 27:54

    Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. John 9:35-37

    He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 16:15-17

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 1st Timothy 2:5-6

    And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:17-18

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Revelation 22:13-16

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

    And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. John 6:35

    I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. John 6:51

    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. John 8:12

    I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9

    I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. John 10:11

    Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

    I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1

    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

    Jesus is God- Our Lord and Saviour
     
  8. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    i am not challenging the authority of the scripture
    but u must know that if u were to put the whole order of the life of christ from a to z
    it is impossible
    sometimes i must say that some people interpret the scripture like no difference to the jews
    if u wanna know where u can find the trinity
    it could be found in the baptism of christ
    and when abraham was sitting under the three when three 'angels' came to visit him on the way to sodom
    as i will say that all these new thoughts and ideas
    that came out of no where(communism, disagreeing with the doctrine)r from the devil in the form of pride
    people think that there r smart and know a lot so they refuse the authority or statements of other people
    all these nonsense will be settle in front of Jesus
    on that very day
    and i dare u all to take up my dare
    and say what i believe in is the full,pure, whole, nothing but the truth
    if u can say that u have taken up the dare
     
  9. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    The problem I have with trinity is that it comes from people not from the Bible. I am not saying these people who came up with the trinity did not do their research through the Bible but they came up with an absolute...and is not an absolute. When you said no one can call themself a Christian unless they believe in the trinity you have just given me man-made orders.

    Jesus says For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that who so ever believe in him shall have everlasting life. If we needed to believe in the trinity the Bible would have told me.

    Different religions have beliefs and that is fine but just don't force your man-made beliefs on others and judge them by saying they aren't Christians unless they believe as you do. God is the final judge....not man. I believe Jesus is the one and only son of God. I believe in treating others as I would want to be treated, love, kindness, and the truth. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide me as long as I have opened my heart to Jesus and given my life to God/Jesus and the Holy Spirit. God is who I wish to please, Jesus is who I wish to follow and the Holy Spirit is my inner guide. No one can figure out God and put him in a nice neat trinity package and say they have it all figured out. We can not comprehend all that God is we are not capable as humans.

    Love and God Bless you. :wave:
     
  10. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    there a lot of truth not written in the bible
    the bible is just a small book
    one can never put everything about what god had said
    that doesn't mean that u do not believe in it
    i guess u r a jehovah witness
    u do not believe the basics of christianity how can u call yourself a christian come on
    it is like water which is made up of hydrogen and oxygen
    how can u not believe it that it is made up of these to elements and call it water
    to tell u the trinity is not man made ideas
    i do not wish to condemn the jehovah witnesses
    but i would say if u do not believe in the trinity which is the basics of christianity then why do u use the bible
    isn't the bible holy for the christians
    do think about it
    some people say 1 thing and when they say another thing it contradicts against each other
     
  11. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    1John 5

    Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God by loving God and carrying out his commands. And his commands are not burdensome. for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify the Spirit the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement. We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life he whodoes not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us--whatever we ask--we know that we have what we asked of him. If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those who sin does not leat to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin and there is sin that does not lead to death. We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. We know that we are children of God and that the wholde world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.
     
  12. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    Am I a Jehovah Witness...NO.
    Am I Catholic....NO.
    Am I a Baptist...NO.
    Am I another man-made religion who puts a name on to cover up who they really are and spend their time trying to prove man-made doctrines and then use the excuse that the Bible is just a small book so it can't tell us everything...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

    Better watch the judging least you be judged.
    Your still a child and will learn more in time...follow your beliefs they are what drive you but don't put your trust and soul in man and their doctrines...do your own research and pray and listen for God's guidance. God is the answer...He knows all.

    When someone believes they have it all figured out they are totally lost. Jahovah Witnesses base their beliefs on the Bible...They can give you verse after verse to show why they believe what they do. Their biggest flaw is they think they have it all figured out and have condemned all other religions.

    I have research many religions and they all have reasons for why they believe something is true. I have chosen to follow God and the Bible. I believe each of us have knowledge and we can learn from eachother. But your belief is just that...YOURS. Don't try forcing your beliefs on me and judging me and saying I am not a Christian unless I believe as you.

    Okay so if I am not a Christian...What am I??? :help:

    Love and God Bless :wave:
     
  13. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    I don't know if these scriptures have been covered, I haven't read every post yet.

    I John 5:20
    And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    Isiaha 9:6
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    mesenger one of the basic christian docterines is the trinity...so if you don't believe in that, nope you aren't. The earliest Documents we have on the church say they worshiped Jesus as God. The bible clearly says it in several places also. What defines christian is adhereing to basic Christian docterine, so if you claim to be christian, you're claiming that docterine, just as if I was to say I am muslim, or buddist, I am claiming their basic docterines. I can't say, I'm a muslim then in the same breath say Allah is not God.
     
  15. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    dear messenger
    what louis booth say makes complete sense
    how can u say u r a christian if u do not believe the basics
    if it is like that u r something between a christian and a follower of judaism something half half
    i may be a "child" well not exactly a child but there is certain things i may know more than u
    yes u may be older than me that doesn't u know everything
    u may be good in 1 field and bad in another
     
  16. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    If you want to say I'm not a Christian...Fine. I am one of God's children. I love God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I don't think it is up to our human minds to put God into a nice little package called trinity and act as though we have it all figured out. I am not here to please man but to please God. I was not calling you a child niwde as an insult I was just saying that you may change your mind about saying the Bible is too small to contain everything. The Bible DOES contain everything....anything more than the Bible is man-made. The Holy Spirit can guide us but unless it can be found in the Bible it is not true. So I guess I go without a title...not a Christian....but just a Child of Gods...I think I like that Better anyway. BTW I am not against trinity if that is what you truely believe. I at this point do not believe that the trinity can be proven or is something to have faith in...I think it's man-made.

    Love and God Bless.
     
  17. niwde

    niwde Member

    256
    +1
    it is fine for me
    because it is ur rights to believe it or not
    but u can see the truth 1 day when u see them
    as i would refer as the trinity
    certainly the bible is the whole truth but things that wasn't written or mention in it doesn't meant that it is not true
    somethings r true and as i said one can never put what god had said into books
    no one can
    everybody is a child of god
     
  18. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
  19. Messenger

    Messenger Simplicity of Life

    +37
    Christian
    Article Outline

    Introduction, Doctrine and Practice, History



    I. IntroductionPrint section


    Christianity, the most widely distributed of the world religions, having substantial representation in all the populated continents of the globe. In the late 1990s, its total membership exceeded 1.9 billion people.


    Advertisement



    Like any system of belief and values—be it Platonism, Marxism, Freudianism, or democracy—Christianity is in many ways comprehensible only “from the inside,” to those who share the beliefs and strive to live by the values; and a description that would ignore these “inside” aspects of it would not be historically faithful. To a degree that those on the inside often fail to recognize, however, such a system of beliefs and values can also be described in a way that makes sense as well to an interested observer who does not, or even cannot, share their outlook.


    II. Doctrine and PracticePrint section


    A community, a way of life, a system of belief, a liturgical observance, a tradition—Christianity is all of these, and more. Each of these aspects of Christianity has affinities with other faiths, but each also bears unmistakable marks of its Christian origins. Thus, it is helpful, in fact unavoidable, to examine Christian ideas and institutions comparatively, by relating them to those of other religions, but equally important to look for those features that are uniquely Christian.


    A. Central Teachings


    Any phenomenon as complex and as vital as Christianity is easier to describe historically than to define logically, but such a description does yield some insights into its continuing elements and essential characteristics. One such element is the centrality of the person of Jesus Christ. That centrality is, in one way or another, a feature of all the historical varieties of Christian belief and practice. Christians have not agreed in their understanding and definition of what makes Christ distinctive or unique. Certainly they would all affirm that his life and example should be followed and that his teachings about love and fellowship should be the basis of human relations. Large parts of his teachings have their counterparts in the sayings of the rabbis—that is, after all, what he was—or in the wisdom of Socrates and Confucius. In Christian teaching, Jesus cannot be less than the supreme preacher and exemplar of the moral life, but for most Christians that, by itself, does not do full justice to the significance of his life and work.

    I could be a Christian. :scratch: I am not saying you are wrong about trinity I am only saying it can't be totally figured out. :bow:

    Love and God Bless :wave:
     
  20. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
    +12
    Christian
    I thought i'd throw this scripture in for everyone to read as well:

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. ( NKJV )


    :wave:
     
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