If I Became An ELCA Member...

[ratchet30]

would I be expected to fully believe in Luther's small catechism? I take up issue with baptismal regeneration and literal Christ's body and blood in with and under the elements. Otherwise I do believe baptism and the Lord's supper is very important and relevant in our walk with Christ. I can believe in Christ's spiritual presence in the Eucharist.

 

[actionsub]

Depending on the congregation in question, more than likely you'll never be asked if you fully adhere to all of it. There are some specifics as to how Jesus is present in the Eucharist, but that's the main thing you might be presented with.

 

[Arcangl86]

would I be expected to fully believe in Luther's small catechism? I take up issue with baptismal regeneration and literal Christ's body and blood in with and under the elements. Otherwise I do believe baptism and the Lord's supper is very important and relevant in our walk with Christ. I can believe in Christ's spiritual presence in the Eucharist.

There is no requirement for members to subscribe to the confessions. A lot of churches emphasize baptism being a new creation tough.

 

[tampasteve]

No, you will not have to "fully believe" in them. They will likely mention them, and probably recommend reading both the small and large catechism. However, the ELCA does not require their adherence to be a member.

Most require new members to go through a new member class of some sort. Mine was 5 weeks long, 1 hour each week after the service. It was really basic information on the history of our parish, the ELCA, basic Christian doctrine, basic Lutheran doctrine, and how the church functions.

Teaching was both via material and question/answer. It was mostly led by the pastor, but they also had other church leaders present and talk.

All that said, the Eucharist is a pretty foundational part of Lutheran doctrine, even in the ELCA. The understanding is more than a Spiritual presence. You may want to investigate the Episcopal or Methodist churches if you lean that way but still want s church that is similar to the ELCA in liturgical practice.

What draws you to the ELCA?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Question. If the ELCA doesn't require Confessional adherence, why do they call themselves 'Lutheran'?

No, you will not have to "fully believe" in them. They will likely mention them, and probably recommend reading both the small and large catechism. However, the ELCA does not require their adherence to be a member.

Most require new members to go through a new member class of some sort. Mine was 5 weeks long, 1 hour each week after the service. It was really basic information on the history of our parish, the ELCA, basic Christian doctrine, basic Lutheran doctrine, and how the church functions.

Teaching was both via material and question/answer. It was mostly led by the pastor, but they also had other church leaders present and talk.

All that said, the Eucharist is a pretty foundational part of Lutheran doctrine, even in the ELCA. The understanding is more than a Spiritual presence. You may want to investigate the Episcopal or Methodist churches if you lean that way but still want s church that is similar to the ELCA in liturgical practice.

What draws you to the ELCA?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Perhaps find a Presbyterian Church. Most dedicate their infants but do not believe in baptismal regeneration. Also, they believe that Christ is spiritually present only.

would I be expected to fully believe in Luther's small catechism? I take up issue with baptismal regeneration and literal Christ's body and blood in with and under the elements. Otherwise I do believe baptism and the Lord's supper is very important and relevant in our walk with Christ. I can believe in Christ's spiritual presence in the Eucharist.

 

[tampasteve]

Question. If the ELCA doesn't require Confessional adherence, why do they call themselves 'Lutheran'?

Because the denomination follows their understanding of the Confessions, but they do not require "adherence" of members. The Confessions are seen as foundational documents that guide the denomination, but not as unquestionable matters requiring a strict adherence to by members.

FWIW, I am no longer a part of the ELCA, but rather a church that is part of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and uses the Westminster Catechism as a foundational document.

 

[tampasteve]

Perhaps find a Presbyterian Church. Most dedicate their infants but do not believe in baptismal regeneration. Also, they believe that Christ is spiritually present only.

That kind of varies by Presbyterian denomination and even church. My church has infant Baptism, weekly communion, and believes in the orthodox Calvinist view of the real presence (which should be emphasized is not the same as a symbolic presence).

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Are Pastors and Congregations required to adhere to the Confessions?

Because the denomination follows their understanding of the Confessions, but they do not require "adherence" of members. The Confessions are seen as foundational documents that guide the denomination, but not as unquestionable matters requiring a strict adherence to by members.

FWIW, I am no longer a part of the ELCA, but rather a church that is part of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and uses the Westminster Catechism as a foundational document.

Ah.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Does your church teach that we are regenerated in baptism and that Christ is bodily present in the Eucharist?

That kind of varies by Presbyterian denomination and even church. My church has infant Baptism, weekly communion, and believes in the orthodox Calvinist view of the real presence (which should be emphasized is not the same as a symbolic presence).

 

[Arcangl86]

Are Pastors and Congregations required to adhere to the Confessions?

Yes. Pastors at their ordination vow to teach in accordance with the Scriptures, Ecumenical Creeds, and Lutheran Confessions. I'm sure in practice a lot of pastors stray from that, but church discipline is fairly uncommon, and at least aspirationally pastors and congregations subscribe to the Book of Concord.

 

[tampasteve]

Does your church teach that we are regenerated in baptism and that Christ is bodily present in the Eucharist?

It depends on how you take the term "Baptismal Regeneration". The Westminster Confession states

"I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life. Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.

Some congregations interpret it as typically thought, others don't. I'm not sure that my church has a set stance on it apart from "one Baptism for the remission of sins".

No, Christ is not taught to be bodily present as is seen in Lutheran or other churches that believe in a physical Real Presence. It is taught to be a mystical real presence.

 

[tampasteve]

Yes. Pastors at their ordination vow to teach in accordance with the Scriptures, Ecumenical Creeds, and Lutheran Confessions. I'm sure in practice a lot of pastors stray from that, but church discipline is fairly uncommon, and at least aspirationally pastors and congregations subscribe to the Book of Concord.

Pastors and Congregations as a whole, yes. However, I am not aware that individual members of the congregation are asked to make any sort of declaration, I certainly was not.

 

[Arcangl86]

Pastors and Congregations as a whole, yes. However, I am not aware that individual members of the congregation are asked to make any sort of declaration, I certainly was not.

No that is correct, they are not.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

That's wonderful.
So, in reply to the OP, if he joined an ELCA church, he would be taught that baptism regenerates and that Christ is bodily present in the Eucharist?

Yes. Pastors at their ordination vow to teach in accordance with the Scriptures, Ecumenical Creeds, and Lutheran Confessions. I'm sure in practice a lot of pastors stray from that, but church discipline is fairly uncommon, and at least aspirationally pastors and congregations subscribe to the Book of Concord.

 

[tampasteve]

That's wonderful.
So, in reply to the OP, if he joined an ELCA church, he would be taught that baptism regenerates and that Christ is bodily present in the Eucharist?

Yes, that would definitely be the teaching given. But he would also be allowed Christian liberty to disagree privately. The ELCA has a fairly high view of the Eucharist compared to some other Lutheran denominations.

But if one does not agree with those fundamentals, there are probably denominations that would be a better fit.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Why then does Baptism and reception of the Eucharist preceed catechisis?

Pastors and Congregations as a whole, yes. However, I am not aware that individual members of the congregation are asked to make any sort of declaration, I certainly was not.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Isn't one of the aspects of reception into the Church a Renunciation of error? Error being of the Devil and therefore, cleansed by excommunication and baptism.

Yes, that would definitely be the teaching given. But he would also be allowed Christian liberty to disagree privately. The ELCA has a fairly high view of the Eucharist compared to some other Lutheran denominations.

But if one does not agree with those fundamentals, there are probably denominations that would be a better fit.

 

[tampasteve]

Why then does Baptism and reception of the Eucharist proceed catechisis?

Not all ELCA churches (or Lutheran churches in general) practice Paedocommunion. Reception of the Eucharist is open to all baptized Christians in the ELCA, whether they are members or not. But for members there is a general progression of baptism, catechism, first communion or confirmation. Some congregations do practice paedocommunion for baptized children, but I really have no idea how common it is in the ELCA. I am given to understand that many (most/all?) Orthodox Churches do as well.

Isn't one of the aspects of reception into the Church a Renunciation of error? Error being of the Devil and therefore, cleansed by excommunication and baptism.

That sounds like a Believer's Baptism, which is a different belief than Lutherans, some Reformed and all the Apostolic churches. But I could be misunderstanding you.

Lutherans believe that children can (and should) be baptized. We continually renounce our sins regardless of baptism.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'mystical' and also why Presbyterians reject the bodily presence (as taught by Lutherans)?

It depends on how you take the term "Baptismal Regeneration". The Westminster Confession states

Some congregations interpret it as typically thought, others don't. I'm not sure that my church has a set stance on it apart from "one Baptism for the remission of sins".

No, Christ is not taught to be bodily present as is seen in Lutheran or other churches that believe in a physical Real Presence. It is taught to be a mystical real presence.