If homosexuality is proven to be biological . . .

[Garyzenuf]

It will not be found to be biological

already isn't. - And
like I told you in my Rep-comments: "I see you're 'a CF-newbie'.
Please, do not allow (the habitually-nasty, to ruffle) your *peace*... GOD Bless! you

OK....who's been ruffling the newbie's peace?

*

 

[Zaac]

Been there
Done that
(not joking at ALL)
Got the "...and all I got was this stupid t shirt" t shirt.
(that part was a joke, just to be clear)

Hmmm, oddly your challenge is full of fail.
Epic Fail.

I'm sure you found exactly what you were looking for. Those looking for a Savior will find Jesus Christ.
But you seem to be angry about something corvus.

 

[KCKID]

You know, there's not too many things anyone can do about another person's unbelief. But those who have been transformed by Jesus Christ can only continue to pray that God remains merciful, and that by His grace, those who currently don't believe will be provided the opportunity to see just how much Jesus loves them.

Zaac, how was your life transformed by the words from a book? Couldn't you have 'changed' all by yourself? I seriously want to know. Also, how do you KNOW how much Jesus loves you other than your reading this from the Bible? Isn't this just Christian rhetoric? There are atheists and agnostics on this forum who don't believe that a supernatural being can accomplish changes within a person that the person cannot accomplish all by themselves. In other words, a supernatural entity is not required for this to occur. Is there not a burden of proof required from you to convince them of the authenticity of your claims? Or, will your response - IF you respond - simply be MORE Christian rhetoric?

Proving the Bible is true is not going to convince anyone that Jesus loves them or that He died on the Cross, was buried and resurrected just so that He could be with them for all eternity. If you want to be convinced, challenge Jesus to prove Himself to you. Ask Him to make it known to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that He is Lord and that He loves you.

I'd like to believe that it was so simple but it isn't. The problem is that should someone ask for evidence of God/Jesus and not receive it (such as a homosexual asking for God's help to become heterosexual) you will come up with more Christian rhetoric that puts the guilt trip on that person, i.e. you don't really want Jesus in your life, you're still clinging to the sin of homosexuality, you need more faith, etc. etc.

Seems like you're in a win/win situation when ANY result can be explained by Christian rhetoric. I don't mean this unkindly, Zaac. It's just a fact.

 

[sk8Joyful]

I would posit
that
those that only use the bible to determine what is biologically, emotionally or psychologically healthy or normal
are not thinking independently, logically or particularly intelligently.

Well, last I heard, CF was still a CHRISTian -forum, &
the Bible is a "standard" used by many us Christians.

Elsewhere in CF, I posted references to many books,
most Christians (particularly in CF) aren't too happy with;
so they don't read, nor learn, from them. - sad, actually.

Some of 100's books (outside this thread's topic) I suggested, are:
24.
25. Why People Don't Heal And How They Can by Caroline Myss, Ph.D.
26.
27.

Such are just general-books, that could open some minds' awarenesses...

 

[corvus_corax]

I'm sure you found exactly what you were looking for. Those looking for THE Savior will find Jesus Christ.

Sorry, just felt the need to correct your post

But you seem to be angry about something corvus.

A human experiencing anger about "something"?
C'mon you can do better than that
Heck even PC_F seems to be angry about something, and he claims to be a Christian.
As does ShieldOfFaith, dad, LittleNipper, JohnR7, NovaKnight, etc etc etc.
I can play "psychic" or "armchair psychology" and make all sorts of claims about emotional states and POV's as well.
Wanna play?

 

[Zaac]

Zaac, how was your life transformed by the words from a book?

My life was transformed by Jesus Christ. The words in the Book merely give testimony to Who He is and what He has done.

Couldn't you have 'changed' all by yourself?

I'm not capable of lifting the burden of sin off my shoulders.
I'm not capable of making True Love known to myself.
I'm not capable of making myself want to love my enemies as I love myself.
I'm not capable of making myself forgive my fellow man for his trespasses because I have been forgiven of mine.

There is One Who makes you want to love as He loves.
There is One Who makes you want to step in a be a friend to the one everyone has stepped out on.
There is One Who makes you want to give and be a servant when it otherwise makes no sense.
There is One Who makes you want to lay down your life so that someone else may havethe chance at eternal life.

That One is Jesus. Man is incapable of perfectly fixing all the stuff that ails us. Jesus Christ can.

He makes it okay to stumble because He's there to pick ya back up and set you back on the right track.

He makes it okay to love that person who wronged you as He leads us into an understanding that at some point, we have done the same thing.

There's too much sin in me to think that sinful me could EVER change it. It takes a Holy God to make that covered in sin, HOLY.

I seriously want to know. Also, how do you KNOW how much Jesus loves you other than your reading this from the Bible?

Personal experience. Relationship. I can't tell you the number of times that I have been at my wits end and Jesus has come through just as His Word says. I cannot tell you the number of times He has affirmed that His word is absolute truth.

Being at a place in your life where you've got everything to lose if you continue to reject His Gift and everything to gain if you accept His Gift is sobering. And to then on just a little faith, to get into His word an watch Him time and time again do EXACTLY what He says He will do. WHEW!!! My, My, My!!!

Isn't this just Christian rhetoric?

You know, some may say so. But when you've been the places that I have, and seen the things that I have seen, and God remains true and faithful. What you call rhetoric, I call a walking testimony of God's goodness, His mercy and His grace.

There are atheists and agnostics on this forum who don't believe that a supernatural being can accomplish changes within a person that the person cannot accomplish all by themselves.

I understand that. In my younger years, I probably would have espoused some of the same things as do some of the more liberal minded people in these forums. But you know, there came a point in my life when I recognized that I can continue to do things my way and continue to ignore the very truth that God continues to present me with, and I could lay everything about me down and follow Him, or I could be like so many other folks out there who are pursuing money and fame and sex and houses and cars and more and more and more.

When would it stop? When would the stuff ever be enough? When would the aspirations ever perfectly fulfill?When would the pursuit of stuff that didn't seem to truly make anyone happy and fulfilled ever stop? 20?30?40?50?60?70?80?

I could not see myself chasing stuff and being empty for 80 years and still chasing stuff, and then dying and not having a peace.

There had to be SOMETHING that would settle it all. There had to be something that was bigger than all of the tireless pursuits. And that something is Jesus Christ.

In other words, a supernatural entity is not required for this to occur. Is there not a burden of proof required from you to convince them of the authenticity of your claims?

Or, will your response - IF you respond - simply be MORE Christian rhetoric?

I can no more give proof of my relationship with Jesus Christ than can the other faceless people on this sight give proof of their relationships with their spouses. They would have to trust me as I would have to trust them if they sent me a picture of their wives and said this is my wife.

I'd like to believe that it was so simple but it isn't. The problem is that should someone ask for evidence of God/Jesus and not receive it (such as a homosexual asking for God's help to become heterosexual) you will come up with more Christian rhetoric that puts the guilt trip on that person, i.e. you don't really want Jesus in your life, you're still clinging to the sin of homosexuality, you need more faith, etc. etc.

A lot of people ask for things that they don't need to. Why would a homosexual ask to be a heterosexual? Homosexuality is not a sin and God's word does not refer to it as such anymore than He refers to heterosexuality as a sin.

The sin is the acts that are committted. Heterosexuals fornicate,commit adultery, and lust. Homosexuals fornicate and lust. Those are the acts that God's word directs against.

The person who wants to live a life of obedience from homosexual sin is no different than one who wants to live a life of obedience from heterosexual sin.

Don't expect perfection. There will be a struggle. But just like an athlete, the Holy Spirit will strengthen us and make us into a creation that desires more of a relationship with Christ and less of a relationship with the things that come between us and Christ: sin

Seems like you're in a win/win situation when ANY result can be explained by Christian rhetoric. I don't mean this unkindly, Zaac. It's just a fact.

I know you're not trying to be mean KCKID. But I give testimony of that which I have experienced. There is just too much wrong with every person in this world, as far as sin is concerned, to think that we could ever fix it by ourselves.

If we were to take sexual sin alone, most men would think it virtually impossible to control the lust and the desire to fornicate, especially in today's society where every form of media points you in the wrong direction.

There has to be SOMEONE capable of shouldering the burden of EVERY sin. That One is Jesus.

 

[Zaac]

Sorry, just felt the need to correct your post

No need to feel sorry. It didn't hurt me to change it.

A human experiencing anger about "something"?
C'mon you can do better than that
Heck even PC_F seems to be angry about something, and he claims to be a Christian.
As does ShieldOfFaith, dad, LittleNipper, JohnR7, NovaKnight, etc etc etc.
I can play "psychic" or "armchair psychology" and make all sorts of claims about emotional states and POV's as well.
Wanna play?

I only make claims about your emotional state cause it appears to be very obvious. The first post you made to me , you walked in with a chip on your shoulder. I was just wondering what's got you so mad at 4 o'clock in the morning?

 

[sk8Joyful]

Zaac,
Couldn't you have 'changed' all by yourself? I seriously want to know.
Also, how do you KNOW how much Jesus loves you

(other than your reading this from the Bible? Isn't this just Christian rhetoric?)

I'd like to believe that it was so simple but it isn't.

Hi
I can (excepting "homo"sexual choices personally) address your questions
about Christian-anythings: church, Jesus, prayer, Bible, etc);
because
I was born & raised in a (former) communist country.

My father was as atheist as you could ever, ever in a million years get, &
my mom believed in re-intarnation, elfs, fairies, gnomes, & other weird phenomena.
Suffice it to say:
church?? - that's where weddings & funerals happen, period.
&
Jesus?? - oh, that's some kid on some straw in the barn
&
prayer?? - No such thing, 'cause the GOV'T = your god nothing else needed.
&
Bible?? - I never even that word mentioned, until I was 12.

So from my birth thru age 12, How does an atheist explain :

How at age 4: when someone answered my curiosity
re that baby on some straw in the barn , & someone
said: "It's a fairy-tale, nothing more, about a kid named JESUS" < the nano-second that word left that man's mouth,
from deep-inside me, that I couldn't explain, came this A-ha moment.
"JESUS" somehow rang a bell with me; couldn't explain that to myself, no matter how hard I tried.
and
How at age 7: well,
before then, I had glimpses (for lack of a better word), of other realities. Again
that I had no way of really explaining to myself, because
any thoughts (outside the "mainstream"-dogma was strictly forbidden);
but clearly I did have them. - and One such experience,
started this practice of "daily talking with GOD" yeah, I had no clue what to expect.
and
How at age 9: when the Biology-teacher was spouting his 'evolution-dogma', I listened; when
OUT OF THE BLUE oh no! I was practically catapulted, out of my desk!!,
with some conviction (for lack of a better word) that then, made me do the unthinkable
I said, to this communist-teacher: "sorry that you feel you came from an ape; but i KNOW I did not" -
you could have heard a pin drop, the silence was deafening.
Well,
I was sent for "correction!" where I was given 1-chance to DENY what I said.
Picture: this tiny little waif of a girl, as I was), facing
for all intents & purposes this Firing-squad oh NO!!
and
What was I to do? - Hmmm, Hmmm. What was I to do???
I took the beatings; and
unable to sit, for over a week, I cried to JESUS at home;
and answer HE did: "My precious child, I LOVE you unconditionally, perfectly, forever, eternally, & completely; and I understand what you suffered. Thank you for suffering for me, for your see - I also suffered for you, too. And you are a part of MY family, never more to leave. Feel FREE coming to me, anytime. Share ALL, everything with me. I LOVE hearing all your beliefs, & dreams, & hopes, & wishes & too if you're troubled, sure you can tell me ALL, for we are family forever"

I sure never expected ALL that. I thought: "WOW! what just happened here?
really, this JESUS-character was getting to sound more familiar by the minute...
So that was my experience at age 9.

I had another significant one at age 11; and two years later,
I got my wish of leaving communism; and becoming a USA-citizen,
where for the 1st. time in my life, I touched a Bible.

Now, some atheists, particularly (psycho types will psycho-analyze that to death; &
they've got a bazillion explanations for it all. They're messed-up)

So, were that to be your (birth-thru-12) experiences, how would you respond?

 

[cantata]

Yes,
when you day-dream, you may do so consciously.
when you dream in your sleep, you do so unconsciously. Either way, it's a choice.

Dreaming while asleep is a choice?

Are you insane?

Choice is an illusion. Far from everything being a choice, nothing is a choice.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Originally Posted by sk8Joyful

Yes,
when you day-dream, you may do so consciously.
when you dream in your sleep, you do so unconsciously. Either way, it's a choice.
​

Dreaming while asleep is a choice?

Yes , and are you saying this is News for you?

 

[sk8Joyful]

Choice is an illusion. Far from everything being a choice, nothing is a choice.

You wanna live with nothing? - fine.

Most people, and increasingly more, are gaining awareness
just how much, & many our choices are...

 

[OphidiaPhile]

You wanna live with nothing? - fine.

Most people, and increasingly more, are gaining awareness
just how much, & many our choices are...

It just goes to prove that the dumbing down of society is working and we are becoming as ignorant as the bronze age people.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Originally Posted by sk8Joyful

Yes,
when you day-dream, you may do so consciously.
when you dream in your sleep, you do so unconsciously. Either way, it's a choice.
​

Yes , and are you saying this is News for you?

And all of cognitive science disagrees with that profoundly wrong assessment.

 

[Beanieboy]

Choice is an illusion. Far from everything being a choice, nothing is a choice.

Can you expound on that? Why you think that choice is an illusion?

 

[Braunwyn]

sk8Joyful: it is very Rewarding to help people heal...

"start"?
since 1975, I've been engaged in working helping (chronically-sick) people successfully heal and
what allowed me to truthfully make the above statement.

Cheers!

Are you a faith healer?

Exactly

(most folks are not in the habit of "thinking... Independent";
as this requires generally more intelligence, than what can be found here.)

I started asking such, and other questions here, but gave up.

You responded to a post that charged people for insulting with an insult. lol

 

[Braunwyn]

why do some of you find it necessary to insult people who have different views and call them "stupid" while trying to promote your ideas of acceptance. isnt that a little hypocritical? just because someone chooses to follow God and his Word does not make them stupid. i have 2 masters degrees and went to medical school...i also believe in God and the bible...so...am i stupid?

You've managed 10-12 years of schooling while having several children by the time you're 33. That's pretty impressive. Talk about living every day to the fullest. Good job.

 

[Beanieboy]

Can people really "faith heal"?

I always understood to be the same as a wine glass bragging about how great the wine it provides. The glass is only a willing vessel, and nothing more.

God may heal through people, but people themselves don't "faith heal" without God. That is nothing more than an empty wine glass.

 

[Braunwyn]

Can people really "faith heal"?

I don't know much about it nor do I subsribe to belief in faith healing but it's interesting. My mother took my brother to a faith healer once. I wish I could have been there. I've also seen a few documentaries that covered the subject.

 

[cantata]

Can you expound on that? Why you think that choice is an illusion?

I can't imagine how "free will" could operate.

 

[Merlin]

Breathing...

what?
you can't hold your breath for even 2 seconds?