If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

[ToBeLoved]

In Romans 9:4, about Acts 20, it said Israel had both covenants. That means that the Gentiles had neither. There is no scripture to change that. Also, in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8, it says that the New Covenant belongs to the Jews. The entire purpose of the NC is to put the law in the inward parts of Israel, so they will keep the Law and love doing it. Gentiles were NEVER given ANY part of the Law. We have no need for the NC.

There is no place in the Bible that says the NT is for any Gentile not attached to Israel, which is the situation today, as found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. During Acts, the saved Gentiles participated in Israel's spiritual things, including Israel's NC, which they got a preview of in Ac 2 as the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Christianity, today, is controlled by the worthless Denominational Church (Synagogue) system, which teaches unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep. This teaching is derived from the totally false teachings of the early church fathers. After 70AD, Paul, who is our only apostle, was almost totally forgotten, even though He was chosen by Christ to to be the #1, main man, the teacher, preacher, and minister to us Gentiles. Instead, the early church falsely focused on the teachings of Christ, who was sent ONLY to Israel during His ministry, Mt 15:24. None of His teachings are ABOUT us Gentiles. Our teachings for today are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles (which are totally different than the Gospels), where we find our Hope is to spend eternity in the Highest Heaven. No one else in the 59 other books of the Bible will ever go there. Search and See.

You have no understanding of the New Covenant.

If Paul is so “forgotten” as you say, why did he write most of the episistles to the churches in:

Corinth - 1 & 2 Corinthians
Ephesus - Ephesians
Phillipai - 1 & 2 Philippians
Thessolonica - Thessalonians
Galatia - Galatians

Pastoral epistles 1 & 2 Timothy

And probably others I can’t think of off the top of my head.

 

[HatGuy]

Sure I did, in the analogy of my mother. It was condemning your foolish beliefs. Certainly, Christ is the only way to the father, but how, in your....mind, can you equate that with following Him, especially when He was never, ever talking to you, and you can't prove he was. Mt 15:24, Mt 10:5, Rom 15:8, and Jn 1:31, absolutely prove He wasn't talking to you at all. He was talking ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In God's eyes, there hasn't been a nation of Israel in the last 1956 years. Unless you're a Jew that lived before about 64AD, you have NO part in what He said. The only part of the Gospels that are about us today are the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

If you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father, you are following the teaching of Christ.

Paul never explicitly said Jesus is the only way to the Father.

So by believing He is, then you are following Christ's teaching. What else would you be doing?

And if you do believe it, then you have to take the writings of John as true too, since John wrote that Jesus taught that.

So again, do you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father? Simple yes or no. Your analogy simply tries to avoid the question.

Plus you never responded to my list of scriptures where Paul echoes Christ's teaching.

And you never responded to how Christ's parables referred to Gentiles.

Thus you never responded to anything in my post. If you can't exegete my post, I doubt you can exegete the Bible.

 

[Strong in Him]

"our soul" = our being, our life

That's one definition.

 

[watchman 2]

A church doesn't make you a Christian , being a Christian makes you the church . Ekleseia , a people who belong to the Lord .

 

[ac28]

If you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father, you are following the teaching of Christ.

Paul never explicitly said Jesus is the only way to the Father.

So by believing He is, then you are following Christ's teaching. What else would you be doing?

And if you do believe it, then you have to take the writings of John as true too, since John wrote that Jesus taught that.

So again, do you believe Jesus is the only way to the Father? Simple yes or no. Your analogy simply tries to avoid the question.

Plus you never responded to my list of scriptures where Paul echoes Christ's teaching.

And you never responded to how Christ's parables referred to Gentiles.

Thus you never responded to anything in my post. If you can't exegete my post, I doubt you can exegete the Bible.

Yes, of course, but that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my following his teaching. That's a totally different aspect. Apples and oranges. If any part of His teaching is repeated in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, which are the ONLY books in the Bible written TO us or ABOUT us today, I'll obey them. These books are Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In my Bible, those 7 total 27 pages. The other 59 100% Israel books and not TO or ABOUT ANYONE living today, as far as telling us anything about our Hope, our Calling, or our future. There are universal truths in the Gospel and apply to everyone. But, anything and everything commanded by Christ to the 12, has Nothing to do with us today

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, of course, but that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my following his teaching. That's a totally different aspect. Apples and oranges. If any part of His teaching is repeated in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, which are the ONLY books in the Bible written TO us or ABOUT us today, I'll obey them. These books are Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In my Bible, those 7 total 27 pages. The other 59 100% Israel books and not TO or ABOUT ANYONE living today, as far as telling us anything about our Hope, our Calling, or our future. There are universal truths in the Gospel and apply to everyone. But, anything and everything commanded by Christ to the 12, has Nothing to do with us today

I hope that you don’t plan on posting in this thread an anti-Paul rant because this is not the place and you will find FEW places on CF that anti-Paul speaking is ok.

So don’t preach that craziness here.

Stay on the OP topic or start your own thread somewhere.

 

[ac28]

I hope that you don’t plan on posting in this thread an anti-Paul rant because this is not the place and you will find FEW places on CF that anti-Paul speaking is ok.

So don’t preach that craziness here.

Stay on the OP topic or start your own thread somewhere.

Who put you in charge?

I'm 100% pro-Paul. He is the only apostle anyone living today has. However, his 14 books are in 2, 7 book portions. The first 7, written during Acts, are TO and ABOUT the ALL-Israel Church in Acts. The 7 written after Acts are TO and ABOUT the 100% Gentile church today. Only the last 7 are TO and ABOUT us.

The OP question is easy. After you're saved, never attend a church (Synagogue), if you want the truth of what is TO and ABOUT you, and not TO and ABOUT Israel, ONLY. No denominational church is given the eyes to see the truth found in Paul's after-Acts books (Eph 1:17-18). Therefore, they teach nothing but Jewish ONLY doctrine, none of which any Gentile will ever be able to receive.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Who put you in charge?

I'm 100% pro-Paul. He is the only apostle anyone living today has. However, his 14 books are in 2, 7 book portions. The first 7, written during Acts, are TO and ABOUT the ALL-Israel Church in Acts. The 7 written after Acts are TO and ABOUT the 100% Gentile church today. Only the last 7 are TO and ABOUT us.

The OP question is easy. After you're saved, never attend a church (Synagogue), if you want the truth of what is TO and ABOUT you, and not TO and ABOUT Israel, ONLY. No denominational church is given the eyes to see the truth found in Paul's after-Acts books (Eph 1:17-18). Therefore, they teach nothing but Jewish ONLY doctrine, none of which any Gentile will ever be able to receive.

Thinking Paul wrote only to the Jews in most of his writings shows your hand right away that you don’t have sound doctrine

 

[ac28]

Thinking Paul wrote only to the Jews in most of his writings shows your hand right away that you don’t have sound doctrine

Everyone in Acts was part of the all-Israel church. Even the Gentiles were part of Israel, because they were grafted into Israel. Therefore, Paul's 7 books written during Acts involved this ALL-ISRAEL church, ONLY.

Paul's 7 books written after Acts are essentially void of anything Israel. In these books, you will find they are 100% addressed to Gentiles.

The 7 after Acts books are the only books TO us and ABOUT us today. Except for the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, nothing in the other 59 books are TO or ABOUT ANYONE that was saved after 64AD.

Sound doctrine for us Gentiles today does not include ANYTHING ever given to or taught to Israel. Here's a very short list of Israel-ONLY things that were Never Ever given to any Gentile living today. Search and See. To claim ANY of these things is very, very, very UNsound doctrine.
---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a brand new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all or any part of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham and Abraham is our Father,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we Gentiles are now part of Israel, in any way, whatsoever
---and, of course, Satan's favorite ploy, the Rapture, his big lie that sucks people into Acts and keeps them out of Heaven

 

[Strong in Him]

Everyone in Acts was part of the all-Israel church. Even the Gentiles were part of Israel, because they were grafted into Israel. Therefore, Paul's 7 books written during Acts involved this ALL-ISRAEL church, ONLY.

Paul's 7 books written after Acts are essentially void of anything Israel. In these books, you will find they are 100% addressed to Gentiles.

The 7 after Acts books are the only books TO us and ABOUT us today. Except for the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, nothing in the other 59 books are TO or ABOUT ANYONE that was saved after 64AD.

Sound doctrine for us Gentiles today does not include ANYTHING ever given to or taught to Israel. Here's a very short list of Israel-ONLY things that were Never Ever given to any Gentile living today. Search and See. To claim ANY of these things is very, very, very UNsound doctrine.
---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a brand new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all or any part of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham and Abraham is our Father,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we Gentiles are now part of Israel, in any way, whatsoever
---and, of course, Satan's favorite ploy, the Rapture, his big lie that sucks people into Acts and keeps them out of Heaven

What do you mean by "after Acts" books?
Are you saying that the Lord's Prayer, gifts of the Spirit, the great commission etc etc are not for Gentiles??

 

[Strong in Him]

And I make it that Paul wrote 13 letters - are you counting Hebrews?

 

[HatGuy]

What do you mean by "after Acts" books?
Are you saying that the Lord's Prayer, gifts of the Spirit, the great commission etc etc are not for Gentiles??

That's exactly what they're saying.

Pretty nuts huh?

 

[HatGuy]

Everyone in Acts was part of the all-Israel church. Even the Gentiles were part of Israel, because they were grafted into Israel. Therefore, Paul's 7 books written during Acts involved this ALL-ISRAEL church, ONLY.

Paul's 7 books written after Acts are essentially void of anything Israel. In these books, you will find they are 100% addressed to Gentiles.

The 7 after Acts books are the only books TO us and ABOUT us today. Except for the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, nothing in the other 59 books are TO or ABOUT ANYONE that was saved after 64AD.

Sound doctrine for us Gentiles today does not include ANYTHING ever given to or taught to Israel. Here's a very short list of Israel-ONLY things that were Never Ever given to any Gentile living today. Search and See. To claim ANY of these things is very, very, very UNsound doctrine.
---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a brand new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all or any part of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham and Abraham is our Father,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we Gentiles are now part of Israel, in any way, whatsoever
---and, of course, Satan's favorite ploy, the Rapture, his big lie that sucks people into Acts and keeps them out of Heaven

Lol, yeah, this pretty much fits the definition of heresy.

 

[whereloveandmercymeet]

Working off of that list we don’t have much of the Bible left! Might as well chuck out the whole thing! Believe in Jesus, but ignore absolutely everything he said... seriously?

How do you come to that conclusion???

 

[ac28]

Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Philemon

"Thy Kingdom come...." All about Israel's promised earthly Kingdom, which Gentiles have no part in.

When Israel ceased to be a nation, in God's eyes, in 64AD, everything associated with Israel was also set aside. The gifts were a preview of the New Covenant, which belonged ONLY to Israel, Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8. Since there us no Israel today, there is no New Covenant. All of the fake, I-wannabe-a-magician gifts today, are just a shadow of what the gifts during Acts were truly like.

The great Commission was given ONLY to the 12 and to those the12 witnessed to that believed. Those that believed were given these gifts, Mk 16: , "17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. The lie that the great commission is for the church, is TOTALLY DISPROVEN by that passage, since no one has had any of those gifts since 64AD. The 12 will be resurrected and will do and complete the great commission in the Millennium.

Everything on that list is Israel-ONLY. If you claim any of those things, you are attempting to steal from Israel. However, no Gentile will EVER get any of those things, whether they believe they are theirs, or not.

 

[ac28]

Lol, yeah, this pretty much fits the definition of heresy.

Believing that those things on the list are yours is true heresy. You're a Gentile and the only blessings for you today are found in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Nothing TO or ABOUT you can be found in the other 59 books, except Christ.

Look at Eph 1:3. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:" You can enjoy every blessing possible in the Highest Heaven.

Look at Eph 2:6, "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" You can be seated at God's right hand, along with Christ, Ephesians 1:20

We Gentiles are a Heavenly people. Israel are an earthly people. Look at Col 3:1-4. EVERYTHING on that list are EARTHLY things, as is EVERYTHING associated with Israel. In vs 2, we are to focus on Heavenly things, found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. EVERYTHING, except for Christ, in those other 59, 100% Israel books, pertain to things of the earth.
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Nothing in those HEAVENLY verses is found in any of the 59 EARTHLY Jewish books.

After seeing my Heavenly Hope for 30 years and watching most other people not being able to see it, I am totally convinced that God must give you the eyes of understanding, before you can see your Hope, Ephesians 1:17-18. I am also convinced that He won't let you see it until you truly want to see it and start eliminating EVERYTHING in those 59 Israel books from your doctrine. You have to SEE, BELIEVE, and CLAIM your Hope, found ONLY in Paul's post-Acts epistles, in order to GET it. It's not automatic. It's yours ONLY by faith. That's the ONLY way you'll go to Heaven. If you don't do this, you'll go through the white throne judgment and, if you pass, you'll end up on the New Earth, along with others like you and the nation Israel.

I realize this sounds goofy to you and everyone else, but it's quite scriptural. Also note that, if you attempt what I'm suggesting, and it's untrue, it won't affect your position in the least. At present, due to your wrong beliefs about what belongs to you, you have no calling and no Hope. You do have Christ and Jn 3:16, but that only gives you eternal life on the New Earth and that's the worst that can ever happen to you. If you want a Calling, to go to Heaven, I'm convinced that what I outlined is the only way to achieve that. But, it's your afterlife.

You and most everyone else are victims of Satan's demoninational Church (Synagogue) System, where preachers teach unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep. I was in the same position you are, until I started eliminating all earthly Jewish doctrine from my life and focused ONLY on the Heavenly truth found ONLY in Paul's post-Acts epistles. It took me 10 years to eliminate all that Jewish baggage from my mind.

I'm not on here to win debates. I'm here to help you and show you an infinitely BETTER WAY. Wouldn't you rather go to Heaven? Today, you have eternal life guaranteed, if you believe. But you have nothing else. If you never looked at your bible again, you would still have eternal life, which, alone, will put you on the New Earth, the bottom of all places, in my opinion. I'm saying that you can have much more than that, but you MUST get rid of the Jewish baggage and focus on Eph, Col, etc.

 

[ac28]

Duplicate

 

[ac28]

Duplicate

 

[Strong in Him]

This is wrong on so many counts, I don't know where to start.

Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, Philemon

There is some dispute over when Luke wrote Acts.
Some scholars say it was before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, since that event is not mentioned. They say it may be somewhere between 62 - 70 AD. Paul died in 62 -64 AD, so it's possible that most of his letters were written before the book of Acts.
Other scholars place the writing of Acts much later - 70-90 AD. If that is the case, and there must be some evidence for thinking that, than ALL Paul's letters were written before Acts.

"Thy Kingdom come...." All about Israel's promised earthly Kingdom, which Gentiles have no part in.

No; "thy kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH, as in heaven."
Jesus healed Gentiles, taught and proclaimed the kingdom of God to them.

When Israel ceased to be a nation, in God's eyes, in 64AD,

Who said? What's your source?
Temple worship continued til 70 AD, and the Jewish nation and religion were not wiped out after that time.

everything associated with Israel was also set aside.

Again, who says?

The gifts were a preview of the New Covenant, which belonged ONLY to Israel, Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:8.

No, the gifts are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12, Ephesians 4:11, who was poured out on Jews and also on Gentiles, Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35, Acts of the Apostles 10:45, Acts of the Apostles 11:17.
The New Covenant was signed in Jesus' blood, Matthew 26:28.

Since there us no Israel today, there is no New Covenant.

Jesus said that his blood was the blood of the New Covenant; are you saying he was lying?

All of the fake, I-wannabe-a-magician gifts today, are just a shadow of what the gifts during Acts were truly like.

Among the gifts of the Spirit are teaching, Romans 12:7; 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11 - is that a "fake, wannabe" gift?
Also among the gifts of the Spirit are evangelism, 1 Corinthians 12:28; Ephesians 4:11, encouragement, Romans 12:8, giving to the needs of others, Romans 12:8, administration, 1 Corinthians 12:28, leadership, Romans 12:8. Are these also fake "I wannabe a magician" gifts?

Everything on that list is Israel-ONLY.

Evidence?
I take it you're a cessationist then?

If you claim any of those things, you are attempting to steal from Israel.

Evidence?

However, no Gentile will EVER get any of those things, whether they believe they are theirs, or not.

Jesus told the 12 to go into every nation, preach the Gospel and teach people what he had taught them. As I said, he himself taught, and ministered to, Gentiles.
Teaching, preaching and evangelism are gifts of the Spirit, and not given only to Jews - since Gentiles were also baptised in the Holy Spirit.
The book of Acts was written by a Gentile.

 

[ac28]

And I make it that Paul wrote 13 letters - are you counting Hebrews?

Of course