If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

[Strong in Him]

What other pagan, non-Biblical concepts do you believe? Hell?

Saying someone is a human being, is pagan?

I didn't say I am ONLY human; I have been made, by God, in his image. I have a soul and am filled with his Holy Spirit. I also have arms and legs to serve God, a mouth to speak for him, a mind to think about him, and my faith, and a heart to love him.

What do you consider people to be - floating spirits?

 

[ac28]

Given that Paul only ever wrote about Christ, this theory is dead in the water. Paul did not die for you, and he explicitly says we are to follow Christ.

You've taken this too far, and haven't read the gospels correctly. If you had you would have noticed how many of the parables are about the Gentiles being saved.

If any of Christ's teaching applies to you, it ALL must apply to you. It's like the Law, you either keep the entire law, or none of it. Pick and Choose isn't allowed and no human is capable of doing it anyway. Therefore, if you find one thing in the Gospel that doesn't apply directly to you, nothing applies to you, unless Christ specifically says a thing is Universal, for everyone. If it doesn't say it's TO everyone, it's not TO you.

What about Mt 19:16-17, where Christ said that, if you want eternal life, keep the commandments. Of course, that won't work today. Unusable.

Then, in Mark 16:15-18, the Great Commission, He says,
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

He ONLY told the 12 to do this. He didn't tell me, you, or the church to do this. To put one's self in this picture is heresy. Also, in conjunction with this, it says the 12 would be able to cast out devils, speak with new tongues, get bit by poisonous snakes and drink poison without it affecting them, and heal by laying hands on the sick.

There are surely 100s of things in the Gospels, like this, that are obviously NOT FOR US, but I have never wasted my time looking for them. Instead, I feel that believing God's written Word in Matthew 15:24, "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.", is far, far more important than buying in to all the Jewish baggage we think we are learning, from the non-Biblical, Denominational Church (synagogue) system, that specializes in teaching stolen, unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep.

 

[ac28]

Saying someone is a human being, is pagan?

I didn't say I am ONLY human; I have been made, by God, in his image. I have a soul and am filled with his Holy Spirit. I also have arms and legs to serve God, a mouth to speak for him, a mind to think about him, and my faith, and a heart to love him.

What do you consider people to be - floating spirits?

You put words in my mouth. Did I say you were a pagan? NO! I asked if you believe in any other pagan, non-Biblical concepts, like Hell or Satan's lie that man HAS a soul.

Here is what's Biblical, all verified by scripture.

You were filled with the Holy Spirit when you were saved. That spirit will be returned, at your death, to God, who gave it. You will be totally dead and not conscious of anything until you are resurrected. In the Bible, this is reckoned as being like sleep. Only Christ has been both resurrected and is in Heaven, John 3:13.There have been a handful of individuals, for special reasons, resurrected, but none have every gone to the Highest Heaven, where Christ sits at God's right hand.

The unbeliever does not have the Holy Spirit, so nothing is returned to God. The unbeliever will simple fade away, like a rotten potato, and never exist again. There are no 2nd chances. The unbeliever is permanently dead.

The soul is certainly not the Spirit.

 

[Strong in Him]

You put words in my mouth. Did I say you were a pagan? NO! I asked if you believe in any other pagan, non-Biblical concepts, like Hell or Satan's lie that man HAS a soul.

Did I say that you were accusing me of being a pagan? No!

You said that a person is a soul. I said that you might be but that I am human with flesh and blood, suffer from hunger, the cold etc etc.
You replied by asking me what other pagan concepts I hold.
So why is saying that someone is a human being, with a human body made up of flesh, bones, blood and various organs, a pagan concept? It's obvious humans have bodies - you can see, hear, touch and sometimes smell them. Pinch yourself and it will hurt.
What do you think is typing your responses on this forum - your soul?

Here is what's Biblical, all verified by scripture.

You were filled with the Holy Spirit when you were saved. That spirit will be returned, at your death, to God, who gave it. You will be totally dead and not conscious of anything until you are resurrected. In the Bible, this is reckoned as being like sleep. Only Christ has been both resurrected and is in Heaven, John 3:13.

The unbeliever does not have the Holy Spirit to return to God. He will simple fade away, like a rotten potato, and never exist again. There are no 2nd chances. The unbeliever is permanently dead.

The soul is certainly not the Spirit.

A person's spirit and soul are different things. Jesus said, "love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind," Matthew 22:37. We have a soul, and we are to love God with it.
Our spirits are the bit of us that connect with God.
God's Holy Spirit is different, he was with God at the beginning, Genesis 1:1, is divine and eternal. OUR spirits can only be born again and quickened for God by his Holy Spirit - without him, we remain dead. Romans 8:16 says that the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Eternal life means that our spirits will be eternally alive and with God.

 

[ac28]

Did I say that you were accusing me of being a pagan? No!

You said that a person is a soul. I said that you might be but that I am human with flesh and blood, suffer from hunger, the cold etc etc.
You replied by asking me what other pagan concepts I hold.
So why is saying that someone is a human being, with a human body made up of flesh, bones, blood and various organs, a pagan concept? It's obvious humans have bodies - you can see, hear, touch and sometimes smell them. Pinch yourself and it will hurt.
What do you think is typing your responses on this forum - your soul?



A person's spirit and soul are different things. Jesus said, "love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and with all your mind," Matthew 22:37. We have a soul, and we are to love God with it.
Our spirits are the bit of us that connect with God.
God's Holy Spirit is different, he was with God at the beginning, Genesis 1:1, is divine and eternal. OUR spirits can only be born again and quickened for God by his Holy Spirit - without him, we remain dead. Romans 8:16 says that the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. Eternal life means that our spirits will be eternally alive and with God.

What happens to your soul when you die? The term, immortal soul, is not found in scripture. An immortal soul is impossible because only Christ hath immortality. Therefore, it will die when you die, so what's the purpose of having a soul? When a person dies, the soul won't go to hell, because there is no hell. It won't go to heaven, because only Christ has gone to Heaven. So, it can go no further than the dead person, so it just dies when the person dies. Sort of worthless. Sort of lake an imaginary friend.

Of course, this is all bunk. There is no separate tangible thing in man called a soul. If there were, Gen 2:7 would be a lie - " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." If the soul is a separate part of a man, a man can't become one. It would be like a man becoming his own liver.

That verse finalizes the argument. I admit that there are many verses, where it sounds like there is a separate part of a human being called a soul. However, in each case, another word, like life, person, creature, words that properly define the Greek or Hebrew should be used.

Gen 2:7. ...man became a living soul (person).
Ex 31:14 ...that soul (person) shall be cut off from among his people.
Josh 10:39...destroyed all the souls (people) that were therein;...
Josh 22:5...with all your heart and with all your soul (being).
Acts 14:22...Confirming the souls (persons) of the disciples
Acts 27:37...two hundred threescore and sixteen souls (people).
Rom 2:9...upon every soul (one, life, person, individual) of man that doeth evil,
1Cor 15:45...And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul (person);
1Thess 2:8...but also our own souls (us),
1Thess 5:23...your whole spirit and soul (life) and body be preserved
Heb 4:12...piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul (natural man) and spirit,
Neb 10:38...my soul (I) shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39...them that believe to the saving of the soul (life).
Jam 1:21...which is able to save your souls (lives).

 

[ac28]

Given that Paul only ever wrote about Christ, this theory is dead in the water. Paul did not die for you, and he explicitly says we are to follow Christ.

You've taken this too far, and haven't read the gospels correctly. If you had you would have noticed how many of the parables are about the Gentiles being saved.

My only comment about Paul not dying for us is, "What does that have to do with the price of eggs?" That's meaningless in this discussion.

Where did Paul ever tell us to follow Christ? In the KJV, there are no occurrences. He did say to follow God one time, i.e., to be kind, tenderhearted and forgiving, as God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven you. Paul said to follow him (Paul) or us (Paul+others) several times. He said once that he (Paul) followed Christ, but he never, ever said for us to follow Christ. Probably the most definitive verse is 1Cor 11:1, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Christ told the 12 to follow Him, but of course, we're not 1st century Jews and we're not the 12, so that doesn't apply to us at all.

Note: What I just did is called rightly dividing (correctly CUT) God's Word, the scriptures. We're told to obey this in 2Tim 2:15, when we study. If you were to start rightly dividing, you would no longer make those mistakes and, as a bonus, you would be approved unto God and would have no need to feel ashamed, as is spelled out in 2Tim 2:15.

Once Israel gets saved, they will evangelize and be a blessing to the Gentiles on the earth. However, those Gentiles have absolutely nothing in common with we Gentiles today. We are, and will be, the only Gentiles, past, present, and future, that DO NOT have ANY association with Israel. NOTHING Israel has ever been given is ours (except Christ) and NOTHING we have ever been given, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, belongs to Israel. Israel and the Gentiles are 100% separate from each other. We weren't separate before 64AD and we won't be separate after 2064, BUT NOW, between 64AD and 2064, there is NO ISRAEL, in God's eyes. We are 100% separate, and live in Pure Grace. God is now filling Heavenly Places, where He lives, with ONLY Gentiles today, that believe His Word, Rightly Divided. No Jew is ever said, in the other 59 ALL-ISRAEL BOOKS, to EVER have a Hope of this Highest Heaven.

 

[HatGuy]

My only comment about Paul not dying for us is, "What does that have to do with the price of eggs?" That's meaningless in this discussion.

Where did Paul ever tell us to follow Christ? In the KJV, there are no occurrences. He did say to follow God one time, i.e., to be kind, tenderhearted and forgiving, as God, for Christ's sake, has forgiven you. Paul said to follow him (Paul) or us (Paul+others) several times. He said once that he (Paul) followed Christ, but he never, ever said for us to follow Christ. Probably the most definitive verse is 1Cor 11:1, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Christ told the 12 to follow Him, but of course, we're not 1st century Jews and we're not the 12, so that doesn't apply to us at all.

Note: What I just did is called rightly dividing (correctly CUT) God's Word, the scriptures. We're told to obey this in 2Tim 2:15, when we study. If you were to start rightly dividing, you would no longer make those mistakes and, as a bonus, you would be approved unto God and would have no need to feel ashamed, as is spelled out in 2Tim 2:15.

Once Israel gets saved, they will evangelize and be a blessing to the Gentiles on the earth. However, those Gentiles have absolutely nothing in common with we Gentiles today. We are, and will be, the only Gentiles, past, present, and future, that DO NOT have ANY association with Israel. NOTHING Israel has ever been given is ours (except Christ) and NOTHING we have ever been given, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, belongs to Israel. Israel and the Gentiles are 100% separate from each other. We weren't separate before 64AD and we won't be separate after 2064, BUT NOW, between 64AD and 2064, there is NO ISRAEL, in God's eyes. We are 100% separate, and live in Pure Grace. God is now filling Heavenly Places, where He lives, with ONLY Gentiles today, that believe His Word, Rightly Divided. No Jew is ever said, in the other 59 ALL-ISRAEL BOOKS, to EVER have a Hope of this Highest Heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

King James Version (KJV)

Exegete this passage by Paul and tell me how you could possibly come to your conclusion.

 

[ac28]

1 Corinthians 1:
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

King James Version (KJV)

Exegete this passage by Paul and tell me how you could possibly come to your conclusion.

All those quotations truthfully say how important it is to have Christ foremost in our lives.

ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THOSE QUOTES say that we should EVER follow His teachings. We CAN'T follow His teachings, since they ALL were directed towards Israel, and we are Gentiles, not Jews. We are entirely separate from Israel, since there IS NO ISRAEL, today. Nothing ever told to Israel or given to Israel, has been told or given to us Gentiles. God has ALWAYS treated Israel differently than He has to us Gentiles. The ONLY truth for us Gentiles is found, ONLY, in Paul's 7 post Acts epistles.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All those quotations truthfully say how important it is to have Christ foremost in our lives.

ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THOSE QUOTES say that we should EVER follow His teachings. We CAN'T follow His teachings, since they ALL were directed towards Israel, and we are Gentiles, not Jews. We are entirely separate from Israel, since there IS NO ISRAEL, today. Nothing ever told to Israel or given to Israel, has been told or given to us Gentiles. God has ALWAYS treated Israel differently than He has to us Gentiles. The ONLY truth for us Gentiles is found, ONLY, in Paul's 7 post Acts epistles.

This theology is very off base. Very.

There are two different Covenants, the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Jewish Hebrew/Israelites were under the Old Covenant before Christ’s death, which brought in the New Covenant, Him shedding His perfect blood, having lead a perfect life with no sin, overcame the Law, by keeping it perfectly.

 

[HatGuy]

All those quotations truthfully say how important it is to have Christ foremost in our lives.

How on earth are you putting Christ foremost in your life when you won't follow Him?

ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THOSE QUOTES say that we should EVER follow His teachings.

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

So this teaching of Jesus here in John 14:6 - we are not to follow it?

 

[HatGuy]

[duplicate post for some reason]

 

[ac28]

This theology is very off base. Very.

There are two different Covenants, the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Jewish Hebrew/Israelites were under the Old Covenant before Christ’s death, which brought in the New Covenant, Him shedding His perfect blood, having lead a perfect life with no sin, overcame the Law, by keeping it perfectly.

In Romans 9:4, about Acts 20, it said Israel had both covenants. That means that the Gentiles had neither. There is no scripture to change that. Also, in Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:8, it says that the New Covenant belongs to the Jews. The entire purpose of the NC is to put the law in the inward parts of Israel, so they will keep the Law and love doing it. Gentiles were NEVER given ANY part of the Law. We have no need for the NC.

There is no place in the Bible that says the NT is for any Gentile not attached to Israel, which is the situation today, as found only in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. During Acts, the saved Gentiles participated in Israel's spiritual things, including Israel's NC, which they got a preview of in Ac 2 as the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Christianity, today, is controlled by the worthless Denominational Church (Synagogue) system, which teaches unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep. This teaching is derived from the totally false teachings of the early church fathers. After 70AD, Paul, who is our only apostle, was almost totally forgotten, even though He was chosen by Christ to to be the #1, main man, the teacher, preacher, and minister to us Gentiles. Instead, the early church falsely focused on the teachings of Christ, who was sent ONLY to Israel during His ministry, Mt 15:24. None of His teachings are ABOUT us Gentiles. Our teachings for today are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles (which are totally different than the Gospels), where we find our Hope is to spend eternity in the Highest Heaven. No one else in the 59 other books of the Bible will ever go there. Search and See.

 

[ac28]

How on earth are you putting Christ foremost in your life when you won't follow Him?



John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

So this teaching of Jesus here in John 14:6 - we are not to follow it?

That is true, but it has nothing to do with us believing Christ's teachings.

I love Jesus Christ as much as you do, but His teachings, in no way, were ever meant for us Gentiles. Instead, he chose, appointed, and taught the apostle Paul to be our teacher and preacher. If you pick both Jesus Christ and Paul as your teachers, you will soon be fraught with contradictions and with have to Pick and Choose doctrine, which is NEVER acceptable. God has ALWAYS treated Jews and Gentiles differently

I repeat, "ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THOSE QUOTES say that we should EVER follow His teachings."

 

[HatGuy]

That is true, but it has nothing to do with us believing Christ's teachings.

Christ taught He is the only way to the Father. If you believe that, then you are following one of His teachings.

Do you believe that or not?

I repeat, "ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THOSE QUOTES say that we should EVER follow His teachings."

What about when Paul commands the churches to break bread because Jesus gave such an instruction on the night he was betrayed?

What about when Paul echoes Jesus' teachings on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

What about when Paul quotes Jesus's words in 1 Timothy 5:18? (Also an OT quote.)

What about the times when Paul deals with the OT? Talks about Abraham being the 'father of our faith'? Is Abraham the father of our faith or not? If so, does not that at least make part of the OT also ours?

The way you're dealing with the question of the Law is simply false. Plus you are misunderstanding Jesus' teachings entirely. Several parables are actually about the Gentiles coming in. John 10 is a famous scripture showing that Jesus is bringing sheep other than the Jews in. Mark 12 is a clear rebuke to Israel, indicating the gentiles will be favoured. The parable of the wedding feast in Luke 14 is another. Jesus' praise of the gentile centurion for having faith while Israel didn't is another clear indication on how God was giving faith to the gentiles. The cursing of the fig tree is a picture of how the nation of Israel was not producing fruit so it would be cursed. John the Baptist's rebuke that God will even raise 'sons of Abraham' out of the stones is a clear rebuke and sets the tone for Jesus' ministry.

For one to miss that most of Jesus' ministry was not TO Israel but actually to bring in a New Israel - of which is comprised of Gentiles and Jews - is simply nuts. Paul affirms this in Ephesians 2:14, showing how God has broken down the wall of hostility between Jews and Gentiles and now made them into 'one people'.

Heck, even Luke was probably a gentile.

Jesus' teachings are absolutely for the Gentiles because they concern the Gentiles. Jesus makes faith in Him the clear way in, rather than obedience to the Law. Your way of trying to reconcile the Law with the Gospel is simply untenable and not at all consistent. It does not match the stipulations of 2 Timothy 2:15 at all. You'll do far better to explore Luther's and the Reformation's Law and Gospel dialectic - that God has two words; one is Law and the other is Gospel; and the Law is used to lead us to the Gospel of Grace. All are born under the Law, like Jesus, but in Jesus we are free from the Law and under Grace. If you explore this route you will find a more consistent and biblical view that begins to unpack the Law and Gospel conundrum that has for so long bugged so many Christians.

 

[Strong in Him]

What happens to your soul when you die? The term, immortal soul, is not found in scripture. An immortal soul is impossible because only Christ hath immortality. Therefore, it will die when you die, so what's the purpose of having a soul? When a person dies, the soul won't go to hell, because there is no hell. It won't go to heaven, because only Christ has gone to Heaven. So, it can go no further than the dead person, so it just dies when the person dies. Sort of worthless. Sort of lake an imaginary friend.

God created us with a soul, and commanded us to love him with our soul.
If you think it's worthless and imaginary, take it up with him.

Of course, this is all bunk. There is no separate tangible thing in man called a soul. If there were, Gen 2:7 would be a lie - " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." If the soul is a separate part of a man, a man can't become one. It would be like a man becoming his own liver.

That verse finalizes the argument. I admit that there are many verses, where it sounds like there is a separate part of a human being called a soul. However, in each case, another word, like life, person, creature, words that properly define the Greek or Hebrew should be used.

Yes, in Scripture - and even today - the word "soul" is used interchangeably with "being" or "life", and refers to a person. We talk about people being poor, gentle or troubled souls - not having those souls, being them.
This is the case in Genesis 2:7.
For many, the soul is the same as the spirit.
But our spirit is not at all the same as God's Holy Spirit, who is divine, immortal and eternal.

But if we didn't have a soul, how could we keep Jesus' command to love God with our soul?

 

[ac28]

Christ taught He is the only way to the Father. If you believe that, then you are following one of His teachings.

Do you believe that or not?



What about when Paul commands the churches to break bread because Jesus gave such an instruction on the night he was betrayed?

What about when Paul echoes Jesus' teachings on marriage in 1 Corinthians 7:10-11?

What about when Paul quotes Jesus's words in 1 Timothy 5:18? (Also an OT quote.)

What about the times when Paul deals with the OT? Talks about Abraham being the 'father of our faith'? Is Abraham the father of our faith or not? If so, does not that at least make part of the OT also ours?

The way you're dealing with the question of the Law is simply false. Plus you are misunderstanding Jesus' teachings entirely. Several parables are actually about the Gentiles coming in. John 10 is a famous scripture showing that Jesus is bringing sheep other than the Jews in. Mark 12 is a clear rebuke to Israel, indicating the gentiles will be favoured. The parable of the wedding feast in Luke 14 is another. Jesus' praise of the gentile centurion for having faith while Israel didn't is another clear indication on how God was giving faith to the gentiles. The cursing of the fig tree is a picture of how the nation of Israel was not producing fruit so it would be cursed. John the Baptist's rebuke that God will even raise 'sons of Abraham' out of the stones is a clear rebuke and sets the tone for Jesus' ministry.

For one to miss that most of Jesus' ministry was not TO Israel but actually to bring in a New Israel - of which is comprised of Gentiles and Jews - is simply nuts. Paul affirms this in Ephesians 2:14, showing how God has broken down the wall of hostility between Jews and Gentiles and now made them into 'one people'.

Heck, even Luke was probably a gentile.

Jesus' teachings are absolutely for the Gentiles because they concern the Gentiles. Jesus makes faith in Him the clear way in, rather than obedience to the Law. Your way of trying to reconcile the Law with the Gospel is simply untenable and not at all consistent. It does not match the stipulations of 2 Timothy 2:15 at all. You'll do far better to explore Luther's and the Reformation's Law and Gospel dialectic - that God has two words; one is Law and the other is Gospel; and the Law is used to lead us to the Gospel of Grace. All are born under the Law, like Jesus, but in Jesus we are free from the Law and under Grace. If you explore this route you will find a more consistent and biblical view that begins to unpack the Law and Gospel conundrum that has for so long bugged so many Christians.

I loved my mother, but when she told my brother to do something, I wan't dumb enough to think that I was supposed to do it too.

 

[HatGuy]

I loved my mother, but when she told my brother to do something, I wan't dumb enough to think that I was supposed to do it too.

Literally didn't answer a single thing in my post.

 

[ac28]

God created us with a soul, and commanded us to love him with our soul.
If you think it's worthless and imaginary, take it up with him.



Yes, in Scripture - and even today - the word "soul" is used interchangeably with "being" or "life", and refers to a person. We talk about people being poor, gentle or troubled souls - not having those souls, being them.
This is the case in Genesis 2:7.
For many, the soul is the same as the spirit.
But our spirit is not at all the same as God's Holy Spirit, who is divine, immortal and eternal.

But if we didn't have a soul, how could we keep Jesus' command to love God with our soul?

"our soul" = our being, our life

 

[ac28]

Literally didn't answer a single thing in my post.

Sure I did, in the analogy of my mother. It was condemning your foolish beliefs. Certainly, Christ is the only way to the father, but how, in your....mind, can you equate that with following Him, especially when He was never, ever talking to you, and you can't prove he was. Mt 15:24, Mt 10:5, Rom 15:8, and Jn 1:31, absolutely prove He wasn't talking to you at all. He was talking ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In God's eyes, there hasn't been a nation of Israel in the last 1956 years. Unless you're a Jew that lived before about 64AD, you have NO part in what He said. The only part of the Gospels that are about us today are the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Believing in Jesus Christ, walking in the Spirit and abiding in Christ,