If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Der Alte

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Since no preacher in the entire world mainstream denominational system obeys 2Tim 2:15 and rightly divides, Correctly Cuts, God's Word, the only thing you'll get from ANY of those churches, after you're saved, is "dumbed down", with no exceptions.
James 4:11-12
(11) Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
(12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Matthew 7:1-2
(1) Judge not, that ye be not judged.
(2) For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Romans 2:1
(1) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 14:4
(4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Matthew 7:3-5
(3) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
(4) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
(5) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.



 
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DamianWarS

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However, Paul and Peter impressed that eastern mindset of "church as community"--or even more intimately, "church as a corps" and "church as nation" upon Gentiles.

I would assert that the Western mindset you described is "doing it wrong," and if we were doing it right, "church as corps" would be just as essential as it is in other places.
The western way is not the wrong way as the Gospel transcends culture. It has it vices like every system but it's culture doesn't need to change in order for the Gospel to penetrate it; the Gospel is very much compatible with its systems and ways of thinking.
 
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RDKirk

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The western way is not the wrong way as the Gospel transcends culture. It has it vices like every system but it's culture doesn't need to change in order for the Gospel to penetrate it; the Gospel is very much compatible with its systems and ways of thinking.

Yes, the gospel transcends culture because it is the Gospel Way--it is a culture of its own, a culture that is supranational across all human national boundaries.

There is a way members of the Body of Christ are supposed to function both as a unified corps and as an embassy of Heaven to the world. The New Testament spells this out.

And in no way is the Body of Christ supposed to be a bunch of individual parts (like the disembodied "Thing" of the Addams Family) all running around doing their own things.

If any element of the Body of Christ looks "compatible" with any human system, that's the definition of a Laodicean church.
 
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gideon123

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It would be a great mistake to simply see Paul as some sort of 'western ambassador' of faith. That notion does not come across at all in his letters. Look carefully and you will see that he did miraculous healings. Yet he does not boast about it. At every turn, and every step, he minimizes his own importance.

Have you done any miraculous healings? I mean true miraculous healings - not the parodies we see on television these days.

No? Then perhaps you can be humble, and more attentive to what Paul is actually saying. And the same for me ... perhaps I can also be more attentive, more humble, and more devoted to God.
 
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nChrist

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I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Salvation
Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
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8484838

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So God predestines you/me/us to make that commitment...?



How does one do that or receive it...? Any kind of act of our own will at all in or on that part...? Or not...?



Agree...?

God Bless!
I’m not a Calvinist, so I do not believe God predestines individuals to salvation. What I believe the Bible teaches is that all who receive Jesus Christ are predestined to an eternal inheritance. God simply has foreknowledge of who will ever be saved. As for the commitment part, I mean that salvation has nothing to do with our merits, or our righteousness. We can not commit ourselves to God or the faith good enough to earn our way to heaven, and if one commits himself in order to get to heaven, he is not trusting Jesus, he is trusting himself.

We receive it by obeying from the heart that doctrine (teaching) delivered us (Romans 6:17); that doctrine is the gospel. We receive it by believing that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, born of a virgin, lived a perfect, sinless life, died on the cross for our sins, and was raised to life for our justification. We are acknowleding therefore the righteousness and merit of God through Jesus, and acknowledging our own unworthiness. It’s all about faith: faith is God’s currency. Without faith, it is impossible to please God.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Not going to a church with teaching authority means reading the Bible, and believing and doing whatever you think it says. What one person thinks it says may be far different from what another person thinks it says. Which is why there are thousands of conflicting denominations in Protestantism. Which is why Jesus Christ founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promise that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me"
I don’t think the Bible at all promotes the idea of one church.

Looking at the early church their was a clear difference in the gentile churches that Paul started and the Jewish congregations that Peter and James resides over.

The Gentiles didn’t need to know how to convert from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, but for the Jewish Hebrews this piece was huge.

I do not believe the Bible supports your assumption
 
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Stone-n-Steel

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I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I get from Acts 11:26 that it is the result of following the teaching of Paul. I also like a previous verse that says this about the believers in Antioch. "with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord."

It appears that being a Christian is an inward change because of what Paul was preaching. I don't see this to be the case because of the teaching of Peter.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
Faith in Jesus, as your lord and Savior....
 
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JacksBratt

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I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
Going to church does not make you a Christian. It is not required even after you become a Christian.

Christians are those that believe in Christ, that He is the messiah, the only son of God and came to die for their sins. They accept that they are a sinner and that He paid for their sins. They accept His free gift of salvation and from that time on they strive to follow His example for how they behave.

It is important to go to church for continuous learning, fellowship with other Christians and to participate in worship of God.

However, It is not mandatory and certainly does not bring you salvation.
 
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ac28

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James 4:11-12
(11) Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
(12) There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Matthew 7:1-2
(1) Judge not, that ye be not judged.
(2) For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Romans 2:1
(1) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Romans 14:4
(4) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:10
(10) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Matthew 7:3-5
(3) And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
(4) Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
(5) Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Every quote you made came from sources that are not TO or ABOUT anyone today that Correctly Cuts God's Word of Truth, 2Tim 2:15. All scripture is valuable for our learning, but the truth written TO us or ABOUT us today is found ONLY in Paul's 7 epistles written AFTER Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. For us Gentiles, anything in those books take precedence over anything found in the other 59, 100% Israel, books. All the Bible is FOR us, but it's not all TO us. We are Gentiles and God ALWAYS treats Israel differently than Gentiles. In most all cases, what is given to Israel is not given to the Gentiles, and visa versa.

If it's not in Paul's 7 after-Acts epistles, it's not doctrine for anyone living today.​
 
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gideon123

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I agree that going to church does not bring salvation ... in and of itself. I think that every Pastor I have listened to would say the same thing. You must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. But quite honestly ... every pastor has always said this, no exceptions! I have never listened to a pastor that didnt say 5his. So I dont know why people are talking about going to church .. as if it's the same as going to a movie.

What astonishes me really ... there seem to be a lot of people who are not getting much from their church experiences. Perhaps i am fortunate. The pastors where i go are doing a phenomenally good job with scriptural teaching. I am learning a lot from them, and I read the Bible every day personally.

I really do hope and pray that people can find a good church where the experience of learning God's word is exciting and meaningful. Best wishes to all of you!
 
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steve78

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I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

That's easy. Live by the teachings of Christ. That's what makes a real christian. I find it easy to spot the real ones and the pretend Christians. Every church has fake christians.
 
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ac28

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That's easy. Live by the teachings of Christ. That's what makes a real christian. I find it easy to spot the real ones and the pretend Christians. Every church has fake christians.

A real Christian is one who follows Paul, the ONLY apostle for us Gentiles, 1 Corinthians 4:16. Paul follows Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:1. Christ selected Paul to be to be our only apostle, on the Damascus Road. Christ's ministry was to Israel ONLY, Matthew 15:24 . His teachings were to Israel only. Christ was an apostle, but not our apostle.

Paul's words are Christ's words, as Christ inspired every word Paul ever said, through the many revelations that Paul, alone, received directly from Jesus Christ. Israel and Gentiles are always treated differently by God. NOTHING, except Christ, that was EVER given to Israel was given to us Gentiles today. NOTHING Christ ever commanded or taught to Israel, ONLY, in the Gospels, was TO or ABOUT us Gentiles today. The fake Christians are the ones who follow Christ's teachings during His earthly ministry and forget about Paul, Christ's main man for us Gentiles. If you want to follow Christ, you must follow Paul first.

Good summation from, "The Background of Christianity"
"The World Book Encyclopedia states that the foundation upon which “Church Fathers” founded the Christian Religion was “the life and teachings of Jesus.” The life and teachings of Jesus are not the basis for true Christianity. The Lord Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, and He confirmed the promises God made to the fathers of Israel (Rom. 15:8). His life was one of a Jew under the Law of Moses. He proclaimed that the Kingdom of God was at hand. That was the primary theme of His pronouncements."

"The rise of the Christian religion, as we know it, did not have its ’ roots in the New Testament or in the Scriptures of the Mystery. Its’ roots go back to the very end of the first century. This was after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Christians previously turned away the Apostle Paul who was the Lord’s instrument to explain what God was doing when He suspended His dealings with the “Israel of God.” The Church Fathers failed to recognize that an unprophesied dispensation was ushered in at the close of the Acts period. This resulted in utter confusion and darkness. Consequently, the “Fathers” laid a foundation based upon error. The error was that the church was to be God’s replacement of Israel and was to assume Israel’s promises."


---We are not associated with Israel, today, WHATSOEVER! In fact, there is no Israel today, since she was set aside in Acts 28:28.
---Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
---We Gentiles today have our own Gentile-only doctrine, found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, the ONLY books TO us or ABOUT US Gentiles today. The other 59, 100% Israel books, are FOR our learning, but will tell us Gentiles NOTHING about US or our FUTURE.
---The red letters ARE NOT more inspired than the black letters. A beginner should NEVER have a red letter Bible, since he then starts off on the wrong foot, thinking the red letters are more important. If you think about it, the red letters are not exactly Christ's words, but the 4 writers of the Gospels memory of these words, although all of their words are inspired.

By far, the most important thing in the Gospels, for us, is not Christ'e teachings, but the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ's teachings are precious and I read them all the time, but I know that they aren't directly TO me or ABOUT me. It's like reading your brother's letter from your Mom. You are very interested in what your Mom says, because she's your Mom and you love her. However, you know that most or all of what she's telling your brother is to and about your brother, and not to and about you. In essence, you are rightly dividing your Mom's words, 2 Tim 2:15, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Rightly dividing, according to Strong's means, "make a straight cut"; "correctly cut". It certainly DOESN'T mean " rightly handle" or "handle aright", or other milky, wimpy words, as most of the corrupt, modern Bibles, like the NIV and the ESV, use.

Obeying 2 Timothy 2:15 in your studies, throughout the whole Bible, is the most important thing you could ever learn, if you truly want to understand the Bible, especially the NT. Note in that verse that, if you DO rightly divide God's Word, you are APPROVED by Him and have no need to feel ashamed. And that surely must go the other way - If you don't rightly divide, you are NOT approved by Him and DO have a need to feel ashamed.

Following Christ's teaching is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE, since the people Christ was talking to kept the Mosiac law and everything Christ taught was inner-twinned with the Law, which no Gentile in the Bible, who, like us, wasn't associated with Israel, was ever told to keep and obey.
 
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HatGuy

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A real Christian is one who follows Paul, the ONLY apostle for us Gentiles, 1 Corinthians 4:16. Paul follows Christ, 1 Corinthians 11:1. Christ selected Paul to be to be our only apostle, on the Damascus Road. Christ's ministry was to Israel ONLY, Matthew 15:24 . His teachings were to Israel only. Christ was an apostle, but not our apostle.

Paul's words are Christ's words, as Christ inspired every word Paul ever said, through the many revelations that Paul, alone, received directly from Jesus Christ. Israel and Gentiles are always treated differently by God. NOTHING, except Christ, that was EVER given to Israel was given to us Gentiles today. NOTHING Christ ever commanded or taught to Israel, ONLY, in the Gospels, was TO or ABOUT us Gentiles today. The fake Christians are the ones who follow Christ's teachings during His earthly ministry and forget about Paul, Christ's main man for us Gentiles. If you want to follow Christ, you must follow Paul first.

Good summation from, "The Background of Christianity"
"The World Book Encyclopedia states that the foundation upon which “Church Fathers” founded the Christian Religion was “the life and teachings of Jesus.” The life and teachings of Jesus are not the basis for true Christianity. The Lord Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, and He confirmed the promises God made to the fathers of Israel (Rom. 15:8). His life was one of a Jew under the Law of Moses. He proclaimed that the Kingdom of God was at hand. That was the primary theme of His pronouncements."

---We are not associated with Israel, today, WHATSOEVER! In fact, there is no Israel today, since she was set aside in Acts 28:28.
---Christ was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
---We Gentiles today have our own Gentile-only doctrine, found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles, the ONLY books TO us or ABOUT US Gentiles today. The other 59, 100% Israel books, are FOR our learning, but will tell us Gentiles NOTHING about US or our FUTURE
Given that Paul only ever wrote about Christ, this theory is dead in the water. Paul did not die for you, and he explicitly says we are to follow Christ.

You've taken this too far, and haven't read the gospels correctly. If you had you would have noticed how many of the parables are about the Gentiles being saved.
 
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Strong in Him

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You don't HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul,

You may be; I'm a human being with flesh, blood, bones - and a soul.
Souls don't get hungry, bleed, feel pain or the cold, get broken bones that show up on x ray etc.
 
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