If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

[RDKirk]

If you are like Jesus in love and compassion and forgiveness and belief then you are a Christian, Church has nothing to do with it.

But can a person be like Jesus in love and compassion and not actually do anything for anyone?

 

[Toro]

@RDKirk
Do you honestly believe that our fleshly and as Jesus described "desperately wicked" hearts are capable of the things that the appostile spoke of without being in relationship to Christ?

Our hearts are selfish and self serving... any goodness that comes from them is not born of a self serving a wicked heart but a heart that is a heart like Christs.

Do you believe one can truly have a heart like Christ without the Spirit's inclusion?

Galatians 5:22-23

IF it were NOT about relationship why would Jesus say in Matthew 7:21-23 to depart from Him as He never knew them? The Lord knows everyone better than they know themselves... yet how could He say He doesnt know them IF it weren't about relationship and not simply a knowledge of?

Further more, how would one even HOPE to know the will of the Father if the Spirit and connection to the Lord were not there? Relationship.

Satan knows OF Jesus, he doesnt have a relationship to Him... big difference. Satan also knows scripture... it is a relationship and continued relationship to Christ that matters as He speaks many time about abiding in Him and He in us.... a relationship, not acquaintanceship.

 

[Danielwright2311]

But can a person be like Jesus in love and compassion and not actually do anything for anyone?

Why would you not do anything for anyone? thats my question.

If you are Christ like, and some one asked you for help, and you help, that is Christ like.

 

[misput]

When I was 12 or 13 the local church caused me a lot of confusion and grief by encouraging me to "go forward to the mourners bench, I was extremely timid and shy but I did feel the calling of the Lord but I did not want to go to the mourners bench crying and praying like most did so I lied to them and told them I got saved at home so they baptized me along with my dad and grandad but I felt very bad and confused because I felt like I had lied to the Holy Spirit and I knew that was serious business. Later on my wife and I went forward in a Church of Christ, they did not have a mourners bench and they baptized us but I never felt the peace with God that I thought I should. Then I began to study the scriptures intensely, bought and carried a small bible with me and studied it every spare moment and prayed a lot, my eyes were 20/20 back then : ) to read the small print. They had a church service at work every day, I bought a tape recorder and recorded our main speaker and replayed them at home and shared them with others, He was that good and I was that hungery for Gods word. He was Catholic by the way. The Church of Christ and my mom who was a member felt that Catholic doctrine was worse than communism, this alone taught me a valuable lesson about church. Anyway I became so convicted I called our Church of Christ preacher and took of from work went home, picked up my wife and a neighbor who I had been studying with, met our preacher at the church building and was baptized again, crying like a baby and have had peace with God ever since. By the way I have learned since then that baptism is not what saves us. I would like to share more about church but this post is already too long, should be a blog I guess.

 

[DamianWarS]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

the question is really about faith defined through an individual vs faith through with a community (i'll ignore the idea that the church is a building). the west has strong value towards the individual mindset and we surrender the group identity in favour of our individual identity. This is a modern phenomenon within history and biblical speaking when people spoke of faith they spoke of a faith community not faith as an individual. Even aspects that address the individual are still played out in a community mindset and never alone. This idea that we need to wrestle our faith alone is a strange concept.

So to a western abstract thinking person the church absolutely does not make you a Christian and such a concept is actually insulting to my faith. My faith is an important part of who I am as an individual independent of a corporate body, should that body fail us my faith is still strong and will still last. I pray alone, I study alone, I reason alone and contemplate important matters of faith alone and if I can not reason and defend my faith independent of others I have no right to be a Christian as my Christianity is based on the things I do not the things others do. I am rewarded as an individual for my own accomplishments and may become more spiritual within these communities based on my own merit and strength and if I should get big enough I will separate from the community and do it on my own.

But to an eastern mindset or more community motivated thinking person the church is an integral part of Christian living and it can only be separated intellectually but practically speaking it is an inseparable part of being a Christian. The act of becoming a part of a Christian community is synonymous with the act of being a Christian itself. My independent thinking and reasoning isn't more important than the group. My faith is identified by how the community I am a part of practices faith and any fruit they bare immediately is my fruit and any fruit I bare is their fruit. If I cannot comply with the community I am kicked out of it and become an outsider where faith is absent. I may still believe but my belief if not good enough and I must repent to the community and come under their judgment so be welcomed back into faith. Individual victories are the victories of the community and should I become more favoured my displays of faith contribute and grow the community but my failures also impact the community negatively.

 

[AliveinChrist99]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian because people go to church for different reasons
I once spoke to a woman and we were talking why we went to church she said she liked the social aspect of it, the church was involved in different things that she enjoyed
For the women the church gave her what she needed but she didn’t have Jesus
Jesus said I am the truth the way and the life no one gets to heaven except through me.
This is the only way by meeting Jesus having your heart transformed by the Holy Spirit and accepting Jesus as our savior
People can meet Jesus in Church and be transformed and many do but it’s not the only way
Should people go to church
I do believe Christians should, not all can some are unwell, some have been very much hurt by church in the past and need to heal before they can go back to a loving church but for most people I think it’s needed, we need fellowship, we need to encourage each other and learn the word and wrestle with it together as a family.
God bless

 

[RDKirk]

@RDKirk
Do you honestly believe that our fleshly and as Jesus described "desperately wicked" hearts are capable of the things that the appostile spoke of without being in relationship to Christ?

Our hearts are selfish and self serving... any goodness that comes from them is not born of a self serving a wicked heart but a heart that is a heart like Christs.

Do you believe one can truly have a heart like Christ without the Spirit's inclusion?

Galatians 5:22-23

IF it were NOT about relationship why would Jesus say in Matthew 7:21-23 to depart from Him as He never knew them? The Lord knows everyone better than they know themselves... yet how could He say He doesnt know them IF it weren't about relationship and not simply a knowledge of?

Further more, how would one even HOPE to know the will of the Father if the Spirit and connection to the Lord were not there? Relationship.

You were the one who said:

Going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds....

None of that means anything,

Are you backpedaling from that?

Jesus said to the Pharisees:

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. -- Luke 11

Jesus' issue was not that they were "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds" but that they weren't also paying attention to mercy and love. But they were still supposed to be "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds." For someone still under the Mosaic Law, exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees meant doing all they were doing in keeping the Law...and more.

Satan knows OF Jesus, he doesnt have a relationship to Him... big difference. Satan also knows scripture... it is a relationship and continued relationship to Christ that matters as He speaks many time about abiding in Him and He in us.... a relationship, not acquaintanceship.

Satan doesn't just know "of" Jesus, Satan knows Jesus personally and knows Him very well. All the demons know Jesus.

But the evil spirit answering, said to them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; but you, who are you?" -- Acts 19

Enmity is also a relationship.

 

[A_Thinker]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Relationship with Christ ...

Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in spirit, and you shall find rest for your souls.

For My yoke is easy ... and My burden is light.

Matthew 11:28-30

 

[RDKirk]

the question is really about faith defined through an individual vs faith through with a community (i'll ignore the idea that the church is a building). the west has strong value towards the individual mindset and we surrender the group identity in favour of our individual identity. This is a modern phenomenon within history and biblical speaking when people spoke of faith they spoke of a faith community not faith as an individual. Even aspects that address the individual are still played out in a community mindset and never alone. This idea that we need to wrestle our faith alone is a strange concept.

So to a western abstract thinking person the church absolutely does not make you a Christian and such a concept is actually insulting to my faith. My faith is an important part of who I am as an individual independent of a corporate body, should that body fail us my faith is still strong and will still last. I pray alone, I study alone, I reason alone and contemplate important matters of faith alone and if I can not reason and defend my faith independent of others I have no right to be a Christian as my Christianity is based on the things I do not the things others do. I am rewarded as an individual for my own accomplishments and may become more spiritual within these communities based on my own merit and strength and if I should get big enough I will separate from the community and do it on my own.

But to an eastern mindset or more community motivated thinking person the church is an integral part of Christian living and it can only be separated intellectually but practically speaking it is an inseparable part of being a Christian. The act of becoming a part of a Christian community is synonymous with the act of being a Christian itself. My independent thinking and reasoning isn't more important than the group. My faith is identified by how the community I am a part of practices faith and any fruit they bare immediately is my fruit and any fruit I bare is their fruit. If I cannot comply with the community I am kicked out of it and become an outsider where faith is absent. I may still believe but my belief if not good enough and I must repent to the community and come under their judgment so be welcomed back into faith. Individual victories are the victories of the community and should I become more favoured my displays of faith contribute and grow the community but my failures also impact the community negatively.

However, Paul and Peter impressed that eastern mindset of "church as community"--or even more intimately, "church as a corps" and "church as nation" upon Gentiles.

I would assert that the Western mindset you described is "doing it wrong," and if we were doing it right, "church as corps" would be just as essential as it is in other places.

 

[Toro]

You were the one who said:



Are you backpedaling from that?

Jesus said to the Pharisees:

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. -- Luke 11

Jesus' issue was not that they were "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds" but that they weren't also paying attention to mercy and love. But they were still supposed to be "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds." For someone still under the Mosaic Law, exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees meant doing all they were doing in keeping the Law...and more.



Satan doesn't just know "of" Jesus, Satan knows Jesus personally and knows Him very well. All the demons know Jesus.

But the evil spirit answering, said to them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; but you, who are you?" -- Acts 19

Enmity is also a relationship.

The question is... whether church makes one a Christian... so in that regard it IS meaningless... so no I'm NOT backpedaling one bit.

It is the relationship to Christ thst saves just as it is the defining aspect of being a Christian. Relationship, not works.

Everything else is a byproduct/result of being a Christian.

The demons and Satan know WHO He is, they know Him to be the son of God, yet they do not KNOW Him and have relationship to Him.

By your continued claim they have relationship to Him... then you believe that IF I know your name and know what you do for a living that I know you and that we have a relationship by me simply having that knowledge OF you.

They know OF Jesus, they know of His authority, they know OF Him being the son of God but they DO NOT know Him, they do not partake of Him as a follower (AKA one that KNOWS Him as well as one who He knows)

 

[eleos1954]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

The word Christian means, “follower of Christ”

One who has repented with a sincere heart and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and believes in His teachings. These are the called out ones (His church) and they transcend the globe.

Attending a organized church does not save a person ... only Jesus saves.

He looks at the heart.

Jeremiah 17:10

"I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways,

1 Kings 8:39

then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

Proverbs 16:2

All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.

Colossians 2:9-10

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

1 Corinthians 12:27

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

It's all about Jesus ... only Jesus saves ... Him only. Follow the Lamb - a follower of the Lamb is a Christian.

John 10
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Many sheep ... one shepherd. Jesus.

Amen.

God Bless.

 

[Swan7]

You were the one who said:



Are you backpedaling from that?

Jesus said to the Pharisees:

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. -- Luke 11

Jesus' issue was not that they were "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds" but that they weren't also paying attention to mercy and love. But they were still supposed to be "going to church, reading scriptures, good deeds." For someone still under the Mosaic Law, exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees meant doing all they were doing in keeping the Law...and more.



Satan doesn't just know "of" Jesus, Satan knows Jesus personally and knows Him very well. All the demons know Jesus.

But the evil spirit answering, said to them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I am acquainted with; but you, who are you?" -- Acts 19

Enmity is also a relationship.

Sorry, gotta stop you there at that very last thing you said. Enmity is NOT a relationship, but the opposite. I disagree because of what is written: 2 Corinthians 6:12-17

A relationship with God is something that is entirely different and sacred. A treasure that is worth everything that this world is not. Relationship to Christ is separation from that which is darkness because He is our Light.

 

[RDKirk]

Sorry, gotta stop you there at that very last thing you said. Enmity is NOT a relationship, but the opposite. I disagree because of what is written: 2 Corinthians 6:12-17

A relationship with God is something that is entirely different and sacred. A treasure that is worth everything that this world is not. Relationship to Christ is separation from that which is darkness because He is our Light.

That's a Christian-pop culture usage of the word.

 

[Swan7]

That's a Christian-pop culture usage of the word.

A what now? I have no idea what you mean by that. All I’m saying is that we, a Christians, need to read with the Spirit and not on our own understanding. The letter of the law kills while the Spirit gives life.

Let the reader understand what the Spirit has to say.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

There really is no (a) church just "The Church". The Church is the body of believers across the globe and those who have passed. The brick and mortar church in your neighborhood is a congregation of those who are in that Body and some who are not in that Body. So when someone tells you that attending a local congregation is not what it is to be a Christian they are probably telling you that the "Church" is the Spiritual embodiment of the Kingdom of God.
Blessings

 

[anna ~ grace]

Ok, just took a quick look at it and it is pretty good, I will admit... But I still have some questions that it does not answer though...?

Like does a true Christian have to, or should he or she, or does he or she, have to go to, and/or belong, to a church or not...?

God Bless!

Well, I would say that if we love Christ and love our neighbor, follow Him, pray often, obey Him, live for Him and not for ourselves, and hopefully gather with other Christians to worship Him, we're on the right track.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I have a lot of peace (now) but I find I have to isolate myself much of the time to have it...? (I'm single, live alone, and do not work)... I spend a great deal of my time alone in my apartment... But I have peace most of the time, if only because of that...

This is also due to some "problems" (mental health issues) I have as well though... My mental health issues make it difficult for me to be a normal part of society, including church much of the time, for the most part...

God Bless!

Yes.....can relate to this. My husband is shy and does not want to belong to any church or denomination. I am a Christian who loves the Catholic Church, and would love to join Her someday. But right now, just do the best that I can in my heart. It is important to fellowship, though. Scripture asks us to. If all you can do right now is be here on CF, at least do that, friend.

 

[marineimaging]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

What makes you saved is confessing you are a sinner and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. What makes you a Christian is living according to the manners in which Christ has outlined for us in the Bible. We live out being a Christian. There are many parts of that life style and our church is included as a way to help us organize our fulfillment of the Word, but it isn't the device which makes us a Christian. It is our sanctuary, it is our place to learn and teach, it is our organized center for others to see and join with us. It is a place where we can push out the world and find quiet and peace to commune with God. But it isn't what makes us Christian. Again, it is how we live that shows the world that we are Christian, that we are Christ centered, that we are saved and that others can be too.

 

[HatGuy]

It's just also that, sometimes I really don't get, or understand maybe, the point of even going sometimes... I mean I listen to and watch a lot of sermons on radio/online/TV ect on a daily basis, and to go to a specific place just to hear another one...? Sometimes I think I am either not understanding and/or missing the point or whatever sometimes...?

The thing is that we are not called to be going to church, but to be part of a church.

There is a difference.

 

[1213]

I've heard a few people say now that, "going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in garage makes you a car"...

So, If going to (a) church doesn't make you a Christian, then what does...?

Originally ”Christian” meant a disciple of Jesus. And disciples are defined by these:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

I think not many do that nowadays.