If Darwin created "Evolution" *again*, all he would do is change the name (to begin with)?

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So, for whatever reason, people don't like anything new, to Evolution - but I don't think that that would be the approach that Charles Darwin would have taken. I suggested there is negative 'Evolution' for example, and no one seems to be able to understand, that what you give can also be taken away - Darwin, would have laughed at such humbug! But when it comes to his own theory, what is the direction that he would have taken?

We know that Darwin struggled, with his theory and that he thought it would account for all life at the same time that it struggled to be differentiated (his diagram of the tree of life, being evidence) - it was in a sense a commitment on his deathbed, not to suffer more for Evolution: implicitly, more than he had done. There was no reason for him to completely recant the theory, elements of it resonated with the promise received in Heaven, that the difference would be unshackled once there and so every species would ultimately be freed!

So what would he do with his theory, if he had a second chance? My thinking is that he would simply start with a change of name - that would be the most extraneous, most changeable aspect of the theory; an aspect that would not contradict the workings of theory, but perhaps illuminate the direction he had initially thought he could take the theory in the direction of. This makes sense because the rules, as they were, could still be made to apply to the changing of the name, at least as initially as the illumination had been. The temptation would of course be, to call something that is evolved, "evolved" for the sake of it appearing to mimic its own discovery process: something would have to be discovered in the meantime, or the effort of changing from the initial condition would risk crushing the science behind the endeavour, with overzealous attempts to endear more than had been thought - thought being the tool, not the object.

The secret here, going with an initial change to "Evolution" is to seek that which would be most surprising - for example, the discovery that every species has its own unique stamp, that makes it the species that it is, whether through struggle or acknowledgement or distancing of that stamp (in principle) or that the young develop play around having that stamp come in to effect, that when their time come, they may succeed instinctively, rather than with effort. The point would be for Evolution, to step into the background of something, that had developmental depth - depth that could deliver at the point that the species needs to pass the test, not simply be passed by.

The conjecture at this point - and I really do mean to go so painfully slow, that we do not initially progress past the most superficial beginning - would be that the name is the only thing that needed to change, because the theory is that perfect! Well! Certainly the possibility of that, is there, but if the theory is heeded at all, it is heeded through an acknowledgement that growing corruption is best put in its place, not reacted to in a knee jerk fashion. No, the surprise we are looking for, is that science get easier and lighter - as the Lord Jesus promised - that we would come at an understanding of ourselves, that even clinging to theory, we know better than to try and save ourselves with theory!

But what would be better than choosing between Evolution-A and Evolution-B? That is the point, we have differences as individual members of a species, that can be completely accounted for, in legitimately observant ways! Jesus said "if you are trying to observe heaven, it is never going to come!" Surely this is a warning, that we not develop endless lists of cross-pollinated branches!! Rather, we must ply to the task: surely Evolution-A on first principles is better invoking 'place', than Evolution-B is invoking an entire "alphabet" give or take that we stop there. Do we give a name to this arbitrary change? Or is the scientific approach to maintain "Evolution", and rather invoke "selection pressure zero" from which we get the singularity of Evolutional differences coming to a head, purely on the basis of presence in the same world-defined "set".

I hope you see that I have made a point here, that we are able to ascend to a point where we are not competing with each other, to be the most boastful and proud we can be: but rather to be the most humble, most inclusive, we can be for the good of all who have come to depend on us, to this point? If nothing escapes the power of Evolution, surely the hand of God is there, somewhere where me may still find Him? The question you may ask is, is God going to implement a rule, that Evolution cannot ignore: if we let Him in to the equation, by which we do all our Evolutional work.

That is for science to ask, surely?
 

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Gottservant

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It is a good point. I think if we take your theories and compliment them from this other fabulous science link from other thread

A Black Hole at the Center of Earth Plays the Role of the Biggest System of Telecommunication for Connecting DNAs, Dark DNAs and Molecules of Water on 4+N- Dimensional Manifold

I wasn't really sure what to make of the link; my initial thought is that it is less likely than "ether" (which they tried to discover in times past, without success)

We will have theory of more than everything.
[...]

I find this insight tremendous: if adaptation is driven by mutation, the consequence is precisely that theory oversteps its 'bounds'. Not necessarily with harm, but egregiously.

The point that Evolution may be negative, was discovered for precisely this reason!
 
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Gottservant

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Makes as much sense as this. Almost.

Time Cube

The difference is, that the author of the Time Cube never blamed every past mistake you ever made, for the structure it now has.

If he did, you wouldn't believe him for long.

Or so many others would (believe) anyway, that you decide to play the hypocrite? (I am not suggesting you would have to, we are all tempted to play the hypocrite at times)
 
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It is a good point. I think if we take your theories and compliment them from this other fabulous science link from other thread

A Black Hole at the Center of Earth Plays the Role of the Biggest System of Telecommunication for Connecting DNAs, Dark DNAs and Molecules of Water on 4+N- Dimensional Manifold

We will have theory of more than everything.

If you can give us a summary after you are done.

Looking forward to it.


I bow to your greater brilliance. Once clearly articulated it will be my great pleasure to propose we name this joint theory (for theory it is):

The Walkerin - Gottservant Theory of Almost Everything
OB
 
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Gottservant

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I bow to your greater brilliance.

Don't even joke about doing that: I am merely a disciple, to you and to them.

Wouldn't you try to understand why someone is insulting you, if you had nothing against them?

Couldn't you see ahead, that helping to understand the insult, would in the end, help them the most??
 
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Occams Barber

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I bow to your greater brilliance. Once clearly articulated it will be my great pleasure to propose we name this joint theory (for theory it is):

The Walkerin - Gottservant Theory of Almost Everything

Don't even joke about doing that: I am merely a disciple, to you and to them.

Wouldn't you try to understand why someone is insulting you, if you had nothing against them?

Couldn't you see ahead, that helping to understand the insult, would in the end, help them the most??


The comment wasn't addressed to you Gotty. I was talking to @Jonathan Walkerin :rolleyes:

OB
 
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Gottservant

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The comment wasn't addressed to you Gotty. I was talking to @Jonathan Walkerin :rolleyes:

OB

Its kind of confusing when you use my name.

Also, its disappointing that you would bow to something other than God.

But you think you know what you are doing, by all means: try harder.
 
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Its kind of confusing when you use my name.
If you look closely at post#6 Gotty you will see that I'm addressing my comments to a quote from @Jonathan Walkerin. I

Also, its disappointing that you would bow to something other than God.
Bowing is not reserved for God Gotty. Gentlemen of Good Breeding frequently afford each other a complementary dip. Respecting one's peers does not minimise the respect one might show for The Almighty.

But you think you know what you are doing, by all means: try harder.

Thank you for your sage advice.

OB
 
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Gottservant

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Wow. This has to be the most nonsensical thing you've written.

I'm trying to show, that I am thinking about theory the way Darwin would have - if that is nonsensical, maybe it is.

But then maybe there will be adaptations we miss out on: because we don't think about it the way Darwin would have?

The author has an IQ of around 120, so its not technically a failure to be 'smart' (about "Evolution")?
 
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Gottservant

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a pencil is not complete unless it has an eraser on the end.

I like this, for what it is.

In context, would you say that this says something about "Evolution"?

Could an Evolutionist convince you, 'the pencil would be more effective as an adaptation, if it was kept separate from the eraser as an adaptation (moreso, in its own right - since both could adapt independently)?"
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I'm trying to show, that I am thinking about theory the way Darwin would have - if that is nonsensical, maybe it is.

But then maybe there will be adaptations we miss out on: because we don't think about it the way Darwin would have?

The author has an IQ of around 120, so its not technically a failure to be 'smart' (about "Evolution")?

No, you... Darwin was not and is not the be all and end all of evolution. He is not a prophet or religious figure. All he is is a man who saw the changes that occur in natural life-forms in response to the environments they live in, went "this is interesting, I need to write about this" and then put a name to what he saw.
That's it.

IQ really means nothing except that you can answer a test.
 
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Hi there,

So, for whatever reason, people don't like anything new, to Evolution - but I don't think that that would be the approach that Charles Darwin would have taken. I suggested there is negative 'Evolution' for example, and no one seems to be able to understand, that what you give can also be taken away - Darwin, would have laughed at such humbug! But when it comes to his own theory, what is the direction that he would have taken?

We know that Darwin struggled, with his theory and that he thought it would account for all life at the same time that it struggled to be differentiated (his diagram of the tree of life, being evidence) - it was in a sense a commitment on his deathbed, not to suffer more for Evolution: implicitly, more than he had done. There was no reason for him to completely recant the theory, elements of it resonated with the promise received in Heaven, that the difference would be unshackled once there and so every species would ultimately be freed!

So what would he do with his theory, if he had a second chance? My thinking is that he would simply start with a change of name - that would be the most extraneous, most changeable aspect of the theory; an aspect that would not contradict the workings of theory, but perhaps illuminate the direction he had initially thought he could take the theory in the direction of. This makes sense because the rules, as they were, could still be made to apply to the changing of the name, at least as initially as the illumination had been. The temptation would of course be, to call something that is evolved, "evolved" for the sake of it appearing to mimic its own discovery process: something would have to be discovered in the meantime, or the effort of changing from the initial condition would risk crushing the science behind the endeavour, with overzealous attempts to endear more than had been thought - thought being the tool, not the object.

The secret here, going with an initial change to "Evolution" is to seek that which would be most surprising - for example, the discovery that every species has its own unique stamp, that makes it the species that it is, whether through struggle or acknowledgement or distancing of that stamp (in principle) or that the young develop play around having that stamp come in to effect, that when their time come, they may succeed instinctively, rather than with effort. The point would be for Evolution, to step into the background of something, that had developmental depth - depth that could deliver at the point that the species needs to pass the test, not simply be passed by.

The conjecture at this point - and I really do mean to go so painfully slow, that we do not initially progress past the most superficial beginning - would be that the name is the only thing that needed to change, because the theory is that perfect! Well! Certainly the possibility of that, is there, but if the theory is heeded at all, it is heeded through an acknowledgement that growing corruption is best put in its place, not reacted to in a knee jerk fashion. No, the surprise we are looking for, is that science get easier and lighter - as the Lord Jesus promised - that we would come at an understanding of ourselves, that even clinging to theory, we know better than to try and save ourselves with theory!

But what would be better than choosing between Evolution-A and Evolution-B? That is the point, we have differences as individual members of a species, that can be completely accounted for, in legitimately observant ways! Jesus said "if you are trying to observe heaven, it is never going to come!" Surely this is a warning, that we not develop endless lists of cross-pollinated branches!! Rather, we must ply to the task: surely Evolution-A on first principles is better invoking 'place', than Evolution-B is invoking an entire "alphabet" give or take that we stop there. Do we give a name to this arbitrary change? Or is the scientific approach to maintain "Evolution", and rather invoke "selection pressure zero" from which we get the singularity of Evolutional differences coming to a head, purely on the basis of presence in the same world-defined "set".

I hope you see that I have made a point here, that we are able to ascend to a point where we are not competing with each other, to be the most boastful and proud we can be: but rather to be the most humble, most inclusive, we can be for the good of all who have come to depend on us, to this point? If nothing escapes the power of Evolution, surely the hand of God is there, somewhere where me may still find Him? The question you may ask is, is God going to implement a rule, that Evolution cannot ignore: if we let Him in to the equation, by which we do all our Evolutional work.

That is for science to ask, surely?
I don't know how anyone can "create" evolution. Either it happens or it does not. If God gets involved, it is not evolution. Darwin published his theory in 1859. You'd think that with all the time and money spent on evolutionary research there would be some sort of consensus. Maybe the theory is fundamentally flawed so consensus is impossible. That's my take anyway.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I don't know how anyone can "create" evolution. Either it happens or it does not. If God gets involved, it is not evolution. Darwin published his theory in 1859. You'd think that with all the time and money spent on evolutionary research there would be some sort of consensus. Maybe the theory is fundamentally flawed so consensus is impossible. That's my take anyway.

Except there is a consensus in science on the theory of evolution. That the theory of evolution is a fact of biology.
 
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Gottservant

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No, you... Darwin was not and is not the be all and end all of evolution. He is not a prophet or religious figure. All he is is a man who saw the changes that occur in natural life-forms in response to the environments they live in, went "this is interesting, I need to write about this" and then put a name to what he saw.
That's it.

IQ really means nothing except that you can answer a test.

I think you would be surprised, which end of Evolution Darwin thought went first.
 
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