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If creationism is put into classes....

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by joey444, Sep 29, 2006.

  1. joey444

    joey444 Member

    311
    +7
    Agnostic
    Since they're saying it's just an alternative scientific theory and that no religion is involved, where will they get their ideas? They can't teach Genesis, so what will they say?
     
  2. truthmonger89

    truthmonger89 Positive rate, gear up.

    +216
    Atheist
    They didn't plan that far ahead. That's where Flying Spaghetti Monster comes in.
     
  3. BeamMeUpScotty

    BeamMeUpScotty Senior Veteran

    +157
    Atheist
    US-Others
    Actually they did plan somewhat. They did a find ("creationism") and replace ("Intelligent Design") search on Of Pandas and People. However, the Dover trial took care of that.
     
  4. Beastt

    Beastt Legend

    +973
    Atheist
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    You beat me to it. But most certainly, "Intelligent Design" is the trojan wrapper with which creationists hope to smuggle their preferred theology into the world of science education.
     
  5. Dannager

    Dannager Back in Town

    +453
    Catholic
    US-Democrat
    Yeah, to put it more clearly, they did plan ahead. Just not very well.
     
  6. shernren

    shernren you are not reading this.

    +505
    Protestant
    In Relationship
  7. Uphill Battle

    Uphill Battle Well-Known Member

    +913
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    shoot, there is no way Creationism should be taught in a science classroom.
     
  8. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    Married
    They would teach whatever science they have that shows the Bible is true. For example, the Bible says "In the Beginning" Science also says there is a beginning. So they would teach what science says about a beginning. The Bible talks about "heaven and earth" So in a science class they can talk about what science has to say about a heaven and earth. The first three heavens is the atmosphere around the earth. Science has a lot to say about our atmosphere and science has a lot to say about the earth we live on.

    Genesis 1:2
    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    "Without form and void" means desolate and empty". According to GAP this means that disaster is upon the earth and there is a destruction. The study of volcanos and esp super volcanos is a good example of how there can be "darkness" upon the earth.

    This verse could also be used to describe when the what they call the snowball earth. In that case the ocean would be covered with water.

    So you could talk about how the ice began to melt and how land and water began to form under the ice or snow.

    We know and understand more about creation and science can be used to help us to better understand our Bible.

    In fact in Bible school they teach us some different ways to use science to help us to teach the Bible. For example the Bible talks about how we can be pure before God. Science has a lot to say about purity. The Bible talks about how fire can be used to purify. Science talks about how you can purify metal in fire.

    The Bible talks about cleaning your garment. Science can show us about garments and how to clean them. So science can be used in a lot of different ways to teach the Bible.
     
  9. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    It depends on what you mean by "Creationism" The Bible does not have very much to say about it compared to what science has to say. But you can use science to understand a lot of different things that we find in our Bible. You can use science to help us to better understand the Bible.

    The Science book and the Bible are both important in how we live this life. The Bible talks about "eternity" and how we can live forever or throughout all the ages. Science knows a little bit about some of the different ages, so science can help us to understand that.
     
  10. Uphill Battle

    Uphill Battle Well-Known Member

    +913
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    don't get me wrong. I'm a bible believing creationist. I feel that teaching it in the science classroom, however, can only lead to one of a few unhappy results.
     
  11. JesusWalks78

    JesusWalks78 Guest

    +0
    I dont see a problem shouldnt we try and teach every viewpoint to our children?
     
  12. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    Why not? As long as you are teaching the truth and it is science. In Christ we live and breath and have our being. We do not stop living and breathing and being just because we walk into a science class. If we are a Christian that that is going to be a part of our experance of science.

    Of course we do not want to teach something that is not true, and that is the fear people have. There seems to be a big debate between creationist and scientist, each accusing the other of not being "true".
     
  13. Elduran

    Elduran Disruptive influence

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    Atheist
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    No.

    To clarify, we don't teach different viewpoints of history (eg holocaust denial) and we don't teach alternate "theories" that aren't supported by evidence (eg Flat earth). School is not the place for such debates of alternate viewpoints, school is a place where kids should be given the information agreed on at the top levels of the field they are being taught.
     
  14. JesusWalks78

    JesusWalks78 Guest

    +0

    I am sure that all the top level creationists will agree to the lessons.

    Where did matter energy come from?

    It is believed to have always existed and it expanded and exploded and the earth was created.

    I believe that God has always existed and by his will the earth was created.

    At the core they are both based on assumptions.
     
  15. Elduran

    Elduran Disruptive influence

    +60
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    Fortunately what top-level creationists believe is completely irrelevant to science, which developes laws, hypotheses and theories based on observation, falsifiability and repeated testing. As such, creationism has no place being taught alongside any science, except perhaps in "history and philosophy of science" class, which I've only seen offered at university level to date. In that class it would be an interesting comparison between creationism and science as methods of investigating the natural world.

    We can see evidence of matter expanding froma central point in the universe, and there are hypotheses about what caused that expansion based on the available evidence that anyone can go out and look at with the right equipment.

    No, they're not. Science is based on evidence, creationism is based on faith.
     
  16. Uphill Battle

    Uphill Battle Well-Known Member

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    Because unfortunately as it stands, science does not include anything that is explained outside of natural cause.

    Whether or not something is proven, best theory is always presented. As a completely naturalistic explanation, ToE is currently the "best" explanation for origins of life.

    The reasons to not teach creationism in a science class are good though.

    1) if taught by an evolution believing teacher, it would not be given anything but derision. Hence, if it were taught, it would be taught as falsehood, without any objectivity.

    2) if toaught by a creationist, it would be taught without objectivity as well. It would be impossible for the teacher to remove their ideology from the classroom, and would teach evolution as falsehood, without objectivity.

    3) as the scientific method stands, something like creation cannot be falsified. Hence, as it stands, Creationsism is not science to the mainstream community. Nor, may I add, will it likely be, as the mainstream community of scientists is championed by naturalism.

    There are more reasons, but this suffices.
     
  17. JesusWalks78

    JesusWalks78 Guest

    +0
    Well thats one opinion.



    Right I never said it didnt exist...but how come it has just always existed?



    So what evidence is there that matter energy always existed? What was the control that showed that matter energy cannot simply exist?

    Seems to me like it is taken on evidence that "points" towards a particular theory being correct as there is no certain way of knowing.
     
  18. Elduran

    Elduran Disruptive influence

    +60
    Atheist
    Single
    The take-home message is this: creationism is not science, it doesn't follow any of the methods for developing scientific theories, and it is totally unevidenced by anything that would be considered worth of science.

    As such, it would be pretty daft to teach it in a science lesson.

    I don't fully understand what you're actually asking here!

    Again, I don't even understand what you're asking here, could you clarify.

    Science is based on evidence, so yes, it "is taken on evidence that points towards a particular theory". Don't know why you would object to this though!
     
  19. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
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    Married
    There are a lot of things in the Bible that can be explained by natural cause. Some people think that natural cause can explain all of the Bible.
    Creationism is going to be taught though.
    If there is a conflict of some sort between creationism and science then the students are going to want to try to resolve that.

    Do you think we should teach them one thing in one class and something that contradicts that in another class?
    It would be nice to live in a ideal world. But we have to live and function in the real world.
     
  20. JesusWalks78

    JesusWalks78 Guest

    +0
    Lets continue here........do you believe that tiny organisms cause diseases? Why?
     
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