If atheism is true would you want to know?

[Silmarien]

I'm defining "atheism" very broadly to mean that even if a god exists we humans know nothing about that god.

So if "atheism" as defined above is true would you want to know?

I agree with Zippy. To actually know whether atheism is true or not would require omniscience, since we're talking about the most fundamental question about reality. If knowing that atheism is true would include knowing that a god exists that we could know nothing about, how do you have that type of knowledge? How could you know that an unknowable deity exists?

That set aside, my answer is yes, I would want to know. If the proverbial snake in the garden offered me omniscience, I would absolutely say yes. This is almost certainly a bad thing.

 

[cloudyday2]

I agree with Zippy. To actually know whether atheism is true or not would require omniscience, since we're talking about the most fundamental question about reality. If knowing that atheism is true would include knowing that a god exists that we could know nothing about, how do you have that type of knowledge? How could you know that an unknowable deity exists?

That set aside, my answer is yes, I would want to know. If the proverbial snake in the garden offered me omniscience, I would absolutely say yes. This is almost certainly a bad thing.

Do you mean that if atheism is true it would be a bad thing or do you mean something else? For me the bad thing is the absence of a system defining what is good and evil and the purpose of my life and so forth. Christianity provided that, and any religion would provide it if a person believed in that religion. Even secular philosophies like the extreme patriotism of the military might provide those things.

So it doesn't matter if god exists or not to me. What matters is if the gods have left humanity with a system or if we are all expected to make it up as we go. Life is confusing and discouraging enough without having the rug pulled out from under you by losing our religious beliefs. IMO, knowing what I know now, I would not want to know the truth. Mr. Snake can take it back.

 

[MehGuy]

Yeah, I'd like to know.. Imagine the power of having the knowledge that God doesn't exist. I could make millions. Have a little visit with a few rich pastors and be like.. pssst.. I know God isn't real. They would respond with "you don't know that! You can't prove anything!", and then I'll whisper into their ears my proof and the smug grin they have will slowly transform into a face of pure terror.

You give me a certain percentage of the millions you swindle from others or I'm letting the cat out of the bag. After I make some serious money, I go into politics and work my way up. Eventually becoming president.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Have a little visit with a few rich pastors and be like.. pssst.. I know God isn't real. They would respond with "you don't know that! You can't prove anything!", and then I'll whisper into their ears my proof and the smug grin they have will slowly transform into a face of pure terror.

 

[MehGuy]

Lol, yeah I was thinking of that clip.

Gotta watch that show again.. believe it's on Disney +.

 

[Jonaitis]

I'm defining "atheism" very broadly to mean that even if a god exists we humans know nothing about that god.

So if "atheism" as defined above is true would you want to know?

Agnosticism teaches that, not atheism.

I already lived that kind of life before being a Christian, I was on the edge of suicide, because there was nothing left for me to live for. It was Ecclesiastes in full swing in my thinking (if you had ever read it).

Some people can be distracted by the little things in life to get them through, but I saw through it all and saw the end of all things...vanity. I was a miserable wretch of a creature.

 

[Jonaitis]

I've managed to live my entire life without the 'notion of a higher power'. So far I've managed to avoid getting involved in any 'nihilist mischief''. As a general observation I don't find atheists to be any more mischievous than Christians.
OB

You're inconsistent and dishonest with yourself. Nihilism is consistent in the atheistic worldview, to say otherwise is self-deception.

 

[Silmarien]

Do you mean that if atheism is true it would be a bad thing or do you mean something else? For me the bad thing is the absence of a system defining what is good and evil and the purpose of my life and so forth. Christianity provided that, and any religion would provide it if a person believed in that religion. Even secular philosophies like the extreme patriotism of the military might provide those things.

So it doesn't matter if god exists or not to me. What matters is if the gods have left humanity with a system or if we are all expected to make it up as we go. Life is confusing and discouraging enough without having the rug pulled out from under you by losing our religious beliefs. IMO, knowing what I know now, I would not want to know the truth. Mr. Snake can take it back.

No, I mean that it's probably a bad thing to be thinking about the Garden of Eden story and say, "Yeah, I'd totally go all in on that forbidden fruit."

I would caution you against seeing Christianity as the sort of thing you can fall back on to have a pre-planned map of how to handle life, though. The purpose of your existence is eternal communion with God, yes, but you could get hit by a car tomorrow and that part wouldn't change at all. The ambiguities of life itself don't really disappear, though, or at least I don't think they should.

 

[Occams Barber]

You're inconsistent and dishonest with yourself. Nihilism is consistent in the atheistic worldview, to say otherwise is self-deception.

Read in context with Post 3:

Probably not I think the notion of a higher power tamps down on some potential nihilist mischief that would take place.

my comment was not a denial of nihilism but an observation that I am not prone to committing "nihilistic mischief".

Perhaps I should have added a to make it obvious that my reply was not intended to be taken too seriously.
OB

 

[cloudyday2]

Agnosticism teaches that, not atheism.

I already lived that kind of life before being a Christian, I was on the edge of suicide, because there was nothing left for me to live for. It was Ecclesiastes in full swing in my thinking (if you had ever read it).

Some people can be distracted by the little things in life to get them through, but I saw through it all and saw the end of all things...vanity. I was a miserable wretch of a creature.

Yep, Ecclesiastes is one of my favorites.
I can't find the link now, but there was a website with a group's interpretation of the Bhagavad Gita that described three types of living:
- ignorance where we pursue sensual pleasure
- passion where we pursue worldly achievements
- enlightenment where we see this world as vanity and pursue spiritual enlightenment

It seems to me that most people are satisfied to live in passion. Society rewards high achievers with respect and wealth, and most people (including me) find those rewards very appealing. A person living in passion has no need for religion although many of them may have a religion as long as it doesn't interfere with their high-achieving lifestyle.

In the gospels, Jesus taught people to pursue enlightenment (through Jesus the way the light and the truth of course). He told his followers to seek the treasures in heaven. Those teaching seem to go in one ear and out the other.

If I had been more successful in life then I probably would opt for a life of passion too, but as it is I can only choose between ignorance and enlightenment. Without faith in God I seem to live in ignorance.

 

[MehGuy]

Do you mean that if atheism is true it would be a bad thing or do you mean something else? For me the bad thing is the absence of a system defining what is good and evil and the purpose of my life and so forth. Christianity provided that, and any religion would provide it if a person believed in that religion. Even secular philosophies like the extreme patriotism of the military might provide those things.

For some reason that aspect never bothered me.. when I was a theist one could say I had more of an "amoral" bent.

Not sure why many theists try to use that as a "gotcha" with atheists. Doesn't make the lack of a belief any less justified.

 

[cloudyday2]

No, I mean that it's probably a bad thing to be thinking about the Garden of Eden story and say, "Yeah, I'd totally go all in on that forbidden fruit."

I would caution you against seeing Christianity as the sort of thing you can fall back on to have a pre-planned map of how to handle life, though. The purpose of your existence is eternal communion with God, yes, but you could get hit by a car tomorrow and that part wouldn't change at all. The ambiguities of life itself don't really disappear, though, or at least I don't think they should.

It's not so much having a road map as knowing where you are presently and where you want to go in life.

When I was having religiosity 10 years ago due to psychosis I had basic faith in Christianity and a desire to do whatever it was God wanted me to be doing. Of course I didn't know what God wanted me to do, and God never seemed to give a clear answer. That was one of my main grievances against God. But I had a vague purpose - try to understand what God wanted from me so I could do it. Now as agnostic I don't know if there is a God, so I am doubly screwed.

 

[klutedavid]

I'm defining "atheism" very broadly to mean that even if a god exists we humans know nothing about that god.

So if "atheism" as defined above is true would you want to know?

Are you talking about agnosticism? A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

Whereas atheism is a lack of belief in God.

 

[Halbhh]

It's not so much having a road map as knowing where you are presently and where you want to go in life.

When I was having religiosity 10 years ago due to psychosis I had basic faith in Christianity and a desire to do whatever it was God wanted me to be doing. Of course I didn't know what God wanted me to do, and God never seemed to give a clear answer. That was one of my main grievances against God. But I had a vague purpose - try to understand what God wanted from me so I could do it. Now as agnostic I don't know if there is a God, so I am doubly screwed.

He wants us to love others as ourselves. And to love Him, as He loves us. How do i know? Because everything I can test the Teacher, Christ, said, works better than all competing ways, of which I tried very many in exploration.

 

[dlamberth]

I'm defining "atheism" very broadly to mean that even if a god exists we humans know nothing about that god.

So if "atheism" as defined above is true would you want to know?

I think the answer is completely dependent upon what one is calling God and where one goes to know that God, or not.

If a person, for instance, experienced God as a life force that is with in all forms of life, (maybe call it the Spark of Life?) they would have to believe that Life itself didn't exist. Which brings up all sorts of other questions.

 

[cloudyday2]

Are you talking about agnosticism? A person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.

Whereas atheism is a lack of belief in God.

Most atheists and agnostics do not make a distinction between agnostic and atheist. Most atheists acknowledge the possibility that gods might exist, and most agnostics acknowledge the apparent irrelevance of any gods that might exist.

For this OP I am defining "atheism" even more broadly. A person can believe in the existence of a god that has never revealed itself to humans. In other words, I'm defining "atheism" to be the belief that all known human religions and religious insights are bunk.

 

[Occams Barber]

In other words, I'm defining "atheism" to be the belief that all known human religions and religious insights are bunk.

Sorry Cloudy but you've taken your definition of atheism a bridge too far.

Atheism is a view about the non-existence of gods and only gods. It says nothing about religions or religious insights apart from the underlying god belief. I may not believe in the Christian God but I could still accept many of the insights of the Christian religion as valid stand-alone propositions without losing my membership of the Atheist Club.

Please don't do what many Christians do by stretching the meaning of atheism beyond its accepted definition and misunderstanding the difference between a god and a religion.
OB

 

[AvisG]

I'm defining "atheism" very broadly to mean that even if a god exists we humans know nothing about that god.

So if "atheism" as defined above is true would you want to know?

If you don't want to know the Truth, whatever it may be, you're a mindless cretin.

In any event, the way you have defined "atheism" is essentially "deism."

 

[cloudyday2]

Sorry Cloudy but you've taken your definition of atheism a bridge too far.

Atheism is a view about the non-existence of gods and only gods. It says nothing about religions or religious insights apart from the underlying god belief. I may not believe in the Christian God but I could still accept many of the insights of the Christian religion as valid stand-alone propositions without losing my membership of the Atheist Club.

Please don't do what many Christians do by stretching the meaning of atheism beyond its accepted definition and misunderstanding the difference between a god and a religion.
OB

No, what I mean by "bunk" is uninspired. Sure, there are some fine ideas that have found their ways into various religious systems, but those religions (IMO) have not been inspired by any gods. They are human contrivances.

Maybe "bunk" isn't the best choices of words. The idea I want to convey is that people should approach these religious philosophies and practices with the same attitude that they might approach a door-to-door vacuum peddler. Maybe it's a great vacuum, but be wary and test it. That "certified by the divine God" stamp should be ignored.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The idea I want to convey is that people should approach these religious philosophies and practices with the same attitude that they might approach a door-to-door vacuum peddler. Maybe it's a great vacuum, but be wary and test it. That "certified by the divine God" stamp should be ignored.

The door-to-door vacuum peddler is usually no danger at all to their children, their souls, their parents, their friends, their neighbors, or their assembly.

Most religions and most practices are pernicious (death dealing) thus dangerous to everyone.