If a Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, will you see that as a significant sign of the end?

[zeke37]

Greatest Tribulation Ever
Matthew 24:21
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The language that Jesus used in Matt. 24:21 is a hyperbole, an extreme exaggeration to make a point. Jesus applied this verse to the destruction of Jerusalem in the Jewish War (66-70 A.D). This kind of symbolic language was common in the Old Testament whereas if it is taken literally it yields contradictions. For example compare the following two verses.
2 Kings 18:5
He (Hezekiah) trusted in the LORD God of Israel, so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor who were before him.
2 Kings 23:25
Now before him (Josiah) there was no king like him, who turned to the LORD with all his heart, with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the Law of Moses; nor after him did any arise like him
How can Hezekiah and Josiah both be the most devoted kings of all time. They cannot. The language is obviously hyperbolic. This hyperbolic language was also applied to other earthly judgments besides 70 A.D.
Exodus 10:14
And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt and rested on all the territory of Egypt. They were very severe; previously there had been no such locusts as they, nor shall there be such after them.
Exodus 11:6
Then there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as was not like it before, nor shall be like it again.
Ezekiel 5:9
And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations
Daniel 9:12
And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
Daniel 12:1
"At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered,

Joel 2:2
A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the
mountains.
A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations
So Matt. 24:21 is a hyperbole borrowed from the Old Testament used to describe the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

huh? how does the events of 70ad compare to the 10's of millions that die from other war, since then?
the scripture states the worst ever....
the destruction of the temple was horrific in what it did to the people who lived there,
but it does not compare to the World Wars that have happened since

Follow the yellow brick road.....

and im thinking that WW1 and WW2 and a host of other wars were worse than 70ad.

 

[coraline]

huh? how does the events of 70ad compare to the 10's of millions that die from other war, since then?
the scripture states the worst ever....
the destruction of the temple was horrific in what it did to the people who lived there,
but it does not compare to the World Wars that have happened since


and im thinking that WW1 and WW2 and a host of other wars were worse than 70ad.

I guess you didn't understand when God spoke of hyperboles.

Cute baby though. God Bless you!

 

[Bible2]

coraline said in post 79:

So Matt. 24:21 is a hyperbole borrowed from the Old Testament used to describe the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Actually, it isn't hyperbole. For just as the highly detailed (and unprecedented) tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd-temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall, for it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple-complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd-temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[zeke37]

I guess you didn't understand when God spoke of hyperboles.

Cute baby though. God Bless you!

this worst time ever is repeated in many scriptures
OT and NT

it is NOT referencing 70 ad

(baby is 7 now...him and his little sister at 6 and 2)

 

[Bro in Christ]

You're still a woman
And still not a jew

Gal 3:28 neither Jew or Greek ... But one in Christ

 

[intojoy]

Gal 3:28 neither Jew or Greek ... But one in Christ

Perhaps you haven't thought as deeply on this verse as we could have?

If coralline has a pre conceived philosophical prejudice that says all distinctions are irrelevant to God after Messiah than I can see how this verse could be used to think along that line. However if we take the meat of what's being said rather than reading into it what our personal convictions and opinions are then this verse teaches the opposite of what some claim that it is saying.

 

[intojoy]

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. (Galatians 3:23 NASB)

 

[intojoy]

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. (Galatians 3:23 NASB)

What is the point of saying this? Paul? How dare you bring this up?

Just an imaginary negative response that the Judaizers whom Paul dealt with at Galatians could have said.

The reason Paul is writing these words is to reveal that in salvation there is no difference in how we are saved in terms of whether we are a Jew, Gentile, employer, employee, male or female, we all receive salvation the same way, thru Jesus Christ. Coraline is still a woman, I'm still a man, I'm still an employer, I'm still a gentile. None of this has changed.

 

[ebedmelech]

Israel : Jacob the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham. True Israel the descendants of Abraham Isaac and Ishmael I mean Jacob.

Nope you missed it.

Those of THE FAITH of Abraham are regarded as "children of promise" and Abraham's "SEED" which is Christ.

You really need to read Romans 4, and Galatians 3.

This is Galatians 3:15-18
15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.


This is what you're missing!!! That the promise of Abraham is not genetic...but spiritual.

The promise...you are told...is a "SEED", that SEED is The Lord Jesus Christ!!!

So ANYONE who comes to faith in Christ is the SEED of Abraham...that is how God sees us spiritually...genetics do not matter.

 

[intojoy]

Nope you missed it.

Those of THE FAITH of Abraham are regarded as "children of promise" and Abraham's "SEED" which is Christ.

You really need to read Romans 4, and Galatians 3.

This is Galatians 3:15-18
15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

This is what you're missing!!! That the promise of Abraham is not genetic...but spiritual.

The promise...you are told...is a "SEED", that SEED is The Lord Jesus Christ!!!

So ANYONE who comes to faith in Christ is the SEED of Abraham...that is how God sees us spiritually...genetics do not matter.

There's two promises ebed
One to the genetic and one to you

 

[ebedmelech]

There's two promises ebed
One to the genetic and one to you

Nope. What promise other thn to Abraham do you know of other than the Old Covevenant which Israel broke?

 

[intojoy]

Nope. What promise other thn to Abraham do you know of other than the Old Covevenant which Israel broke?

Abrahamic
Land
Davidic
New

 

[ebedmelech]

Abrahamic
Land
Davidic
New

The Land Covenant became part of the Sinaitic Covenant..Israel broke the Sinaitic Covenant.

The Davidic Covenant is with DAVID not Israel...and is fulfilled in Christ who is the seed of David...and is on the throne,

The New Covenant abolished the Old Covenant. Christ announced the New Covenant.

 

[coraline]

The Land Covenant became part of the Sinaitic Covenant..Israel broke the Sinaitic Covenant.

The Davidic Covenant is with DAVID not Israel...and is fulfilled in Christ who is the seed of David...and is on the throne,

The New Covenant abolished the Old Covenant. Christ announced the New Covenant.

Exactly. He acts like there were/are 2 "Christs" for Pete's sake!

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, D'ism has always said there are two stories running in the overall Bible, that it is 'A:A, B:B' instead of A-B-A, in which B is is the focus and story of Israel.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes, D'ism has always said there are two stories running in the overall Bible, that it is 'A:A, B:B' instead of A-B-A, in which B is is the focus and story of Israel.

Actually, the equation is this simple....1+1 = 1 ..."FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE".

Why do people read that...and not believe it....

 

[Interplanner]

There is a beginning and end to B. It was a child-trainer for an age of childhood. "Now that Christ has come you are no longer under the supervision of the law." Or compare the various places in Hebrews where things came to an end or no longer pertain...

"Make sure you follow the model of the heavenly temple" means there was a phase or era in which the tangible temple had a role, and then it was over. A-B-A

 

[intojoy]

Watch and learn children.


THE EDENIC COVENANT:

Scripture: Genesis 1:28-30: And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.

Genesis 2:15-17: And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.

Hosea 6:7: But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

THE ADAMIC COVENANT:

Scripture: Genesis 3:14-19 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life: and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you. And unto Adam he said, Because you have hearkened unto the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil shall you eat of it all the days of your life; thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you; and you shall eat the herb of the field; in the sweat of your face shall you eat bread, till you return unto the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return.

THE NOAHIC COVENANT

Scripture: Genesis 9:1-17 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; with all wherewith the ground teems, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; as the green herb have I given you all. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it: and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that go out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of the flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

 

[intojoy]

That makes 8. Read it and weep. Hehehe

 

[Douggg]

Exactly. He acts like there were/are 2 "Christs" for Pete's sake!

1. The New covenant is for Israel.
2. Salvation is for everyone.
3. Gentile Christians are grafted into God's family tree.

There are two concepts of Christ. (1) The word used by Jews who spoke Greek, as meaning the great promised anointed (mashiach) king of Israel.

(2) The word Christ as it became expanded with the advent of Christianity to mean Saviour from our sins.

The Jews, the majority of Israel, currently holds to the first concept, but reject the second one.

The disciples as Israel received the promise Jesus gave when he made the new covenant with them at the last supper, in Luke 24:44-48 when they understood what it meant in the sacraments of the wine and bread, for them and received it, the gospel of Salvation after the resurrection.

The gospel of Salvation was extended to the other nations as he gave them the great commission.


Doug

There is no Salvation apart from the shed blood of Jesus.