If a Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, will you see that as a significant sign of the end?

[Houly]

If a Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, will you see that as a significant sign of the end?


Current combined results (Christianforums.com and Christianchat.com):

Yes: 30
No: 18


Jesus Christ could return at any time: maybe today, in ten years, or in ten thousand years.

Most of us believe we will be able to recognize the "season" of His return and of the end of this present "Church Age" or "Age of the Gentiles."

There are currently millions of Israeli Jews making all the preparations to rebuild on the Temple Mount. Their major obstacle is the Dome of Rock, one of the most important sites for Islam, which has been built at the location of the fallen First and Second Temples.

If the Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, animal sacrifices are expected to resume. Unlike the First and Second Temples, this rebuilt Jerusalem temple will NOT be God's true temple. Christians have been blessed with the knowledge that our bodies now compose God's temple and that Jesus Christ sacrificed His body for the redemption of all sin.

Most of us who expect a "great tribulation" period (usually either 7 years or 3.5 years), expect that a man, the Antichrist, will stand in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God.

So, knowing that it will not be God's true temple, will you consider a rebuilt Jerusalem temple a significant sign that we are in the season of the end?

 

[Douggg]

I don't think that the temple will be rebuilt ahead of the arrival of the Antichrist as the Jew's perceived king messiah. Many Jews believe that the king messiah must build the temple.

It is not mandatory that the Antichrist oversee the building of the temple - but he does have to be the Jew's perceived king messiah when the animal sacrifices begin again.

If it turns out the temple construction does indeed start ahead of the Antichrist, then the time of the Antichrist would be very very near. There are some theories that a temple could be build adjacent to the Dome of the Rock.

In a post Gog/Magog setting, the Dome of the Rock would be destroyed and the temple built where it now sits.

So there are a couple of possibilities.


Doug

 

[ancientsoul]

Jesus Christ could return at any time: maybe today, in ten years, or in ten thousand years.

Most of us believe we will be able to recognize the "season" of His return and of the end of this present "Church Age" or "Age of the Gentiles."

There are currently millions of Israeli Jews making all the preparations to rebuild on the Temple Mount. Their major obstacle is the Dome of Rock, one of the most important sites for Islam, which has been built at the location of the fallen First and Second Temples.

If the Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, animal sacrifices are expected to resume. Unlike the First and Second Temples, this rebuilt Jerusalem temple will NOT be God's true temple. Christians have been blessed with the knowledge that our bodies now compose God's temple and that Jesus Christ sacrificed His body for the redemption of all sin.

Most of us who expect a "great tribulation" period (either 7 years or 3.5 years), expect that a man, the Antichrist, will stand in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God.

So, knowing that it will not be God's true temple, will you consider a rebuilt Jerusalem temple a significant sign that we are in the season of the end?

no vote ...

i agree with your post ... other than the tribulation length ... i believe the total time will be 5 months ...

 

[ancientsoul]

I don't think that the temple will be rebuilt ahead of the arrival of the Antichrist as the Jew's perceived king messiah. Many Jews believe that the king messiah must build the temple.

It is not mandatory that the Antichrist oversee the building of the temple - but he does have to be the Jew's perceived king messiah when the animal sacrifices begin again.

If it turns out the temple construction does indeed start ahead of the Antichrist, then the time of the Antichrist would be very very near. There are some theories that a temple could be build adjacent to the Dome of the Rock.

In a post Gog/Magog setting, the Dome of the Rock would be destroyed and the temple built where it now sits.

So there are a couple of possibilities.


Doug

... been thinking about all this the last few days ... how is the daily oblation and sacrifce of God's people to be made to stop if it isn't being done in the temple now ... it would have to be after the temple was built again ... and after God's people had regained control ... or at the least after God's people regain control ... in that case, why the need of a new temple ...

and that's as far as i got ...

 

[Houly]

no vote ...

i agree with your post ... other than the tribulation length ... i believe the total time will be 5 months ...

I'll change it to "usually 7 years or 3.5 years."

Why no vote?

 

[ancientsoul]

no particular reason ... seemed, somehow, like neither applied ... not really sure what would ... i really haven't studied enough about the third temple to really even know who is supposed to build it ... that said, if Jesus is the one and it applies to New Jerusalem (which i don't know) then that would change things for me ... if it's in the millenium we wouldn't need a physical temple ... so many things to consider ... i like this thread because when i have a minute i want to study the possibility of the enemy rebuilding it ... if he does, is it a spiritual rebuilding or a literal rebuilding ... i had never felt to go any further than what comes next ... sort of ...

 

[Friar Tuck]

After the temple that stood in Daniels day was destroyed , Daniel received a vision of a temple and of an evil one who is coming.

After the temple that stood in Johns day was destroyed , John also received a vision of a temple and of an evil one who is coming.

I voted yes.

 

[RDKirk]

Jesus Christ could return at any time: maybe today, in ten years, or in ten thousand years.

Most of us believe we will be able to recognize the "season" of His return and of the end of this present "Church Age" or "Age of the Gentiles."

There are currently millions of Israeli Jews making all the preparations to rebuild on the Temple Mount. Their major obstacle is the Dome of Rock, one of the most important sites for Islam, which has been built at the location of the fallen First and Second Temples.

It would take a horrendous change in the political order of the Middle East, and probably the world, for that to happen.

So if it did, then anything could be possible afterward.

If the Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, animal sacrifices are expected to resume. Unlike the First and Second Temples, this rebuilt Jerusalem temple will NOT be God's true temple. Christians have been blessed with the knowledge that our bodies now compose God's temple and that Jesus Christ sacrificed His body for the redemption of all sin.

I'm not sure that anything but the tabernacle built by Moses based on God's heavenly design (see Hebrews) was God's true temple.

 

[Douggg]

It would take a horrendous change in the political order of the Middle East, and probably the world, for that to happen.

So if it did, then anything could be possible afterward.

Yes, that's why I don't see it happening until after Gog/Magog.

Doug

 

[ebedmelech]

A temple will be nothing nor mean anything except the the blindness of the Jews that Paul speaks of in Romans 11 remains.

A rebuilt temple in Jerusalem would not be a significant sign. A significant sign would be the Jews coming to Christ as messiah in mass numbers and being grafted into the olive tree as Paul speaks in Romans 11.

God's temple is the church built with Christ as the cornerstone, the apostles and prophets as the foundation, and all believers as living stones.

Our focus should not looking for a physical temple but building the spiritual temple.

So nope...a temple in Jerusalem is nothing significant. This is what Jesus said in Matthew 23:37-39 as He was heading to the cross:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

In saying that, Jesus is discarding Jerusalem as anything significant because God was removing His name from Herod's temple in fact, and pronouncing it desolate. The Old Covenant of the Jews as God's people was about to be ended with Jesus pronouncing the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31

When Jews say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord"...that would be a significant sign of the end...

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Jesus Christ could return at any time: maybe today, in ten years, or in ten thousand years.

Most of us believe we will be able to recognize the "season" of His return and of the end of this present "Church Age" or "Age of the Gentiles."

There are currently millions of Israeli Jews making all the preparations to rebuild on the Temple Mount. Their major obstacle is the Dome of Rock, one of the most important sites for Islam, which has been built at the location of the fallen First and Second Temples.

If the Jerusalem temple is rebuilt, animal sacrifices are expected to resume. Unlike the First and Second Temples, this rebuilt Jerusalem temple will NOT be God's true temple. Christians have been blessed with the knowledge that our bodies now compose God's temple and that Jesus Christ sacrificed His body for the redemption of all sin.

Most of us who expect a "great tribulation" period (usually either 7 years or 3.5 years), expect that a man, the Antichrist, will stand in a temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself to be God.

So, knowing that it will not be God's true temple, will you consider a rebuilt Jerusalem temple a significant sign that we are in the season of the end?

Jesus could not return today.

Before the coming of the Lord, Jews will believe in Jesus and gentile believers will become one body with Jews for a brief time before the end.

The wealth of the world will be gathered up to Israel and Joseph will be named in these days.

The gentiles of Joseph becoming one with the Jews of Judah will be a terror to the world.

The people of the suffering Messiah Joseph, and the people of Judah then swoop down on the nations themselves, and the nations become terrified at just the mention of the name of Judah.

They are terrified because all the gentile believers in Christ have joined Judah and become one. And as one, it will terrify the world because there will be no more talk of Palestine, there will be no Mideast struggle when the gentile believers join Judah.

God strengthens Judah first, and the governors and people of Judah say to themselves,'' Oh My! the inhabitants of Jerusalem have a Messiah and great is their Messiah!''

4 In that day,” says the Lord, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.’ 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem.


The inhabitants of Jerusalem are we.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jesus could not return today.

Before the coming of the Lord, Jews will believe in Jesus and gentile believers will become one body with Jews for a brief time before the end.

The wealth of the world will be gathered up to Israel and Joseph will be named in these days.

The gentiles of Joseph becoming one with the Jews of Judah will be a terror to the world.

The people of the suffering Messiah Joseph, and the people of Judah then swoop down on the nations themselves, and the nations become terrified at just the mention of the name of Judah.

They are terrified because all the gentile believers in Christ have joined Judah and become one. And as one, it will terrify the world because there will be no more talk of Palestine, there will be no Mideast struggle when the gentile believers join Judah.

God strengthens Judah first, and the governors and people of Judah say to themselves,'' Oh My! the inhabitants of Jerusalem have a Messiah and great is their Messiah!''

4 In that day,” says the Lord, “I will strike every horse with confusion, and its rider with madness; I will open My eyes on the house of Judah, and will strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem are my strength in the Lord of hosts, their God.’ 6 In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place—Jerusalem.


The inhabitants of Jerusalem are we.

The major sign that Jesus' return is near is discussed by Paul in Romans 11:25-27:
25 For I do not want you brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

At this juncture in history, God is still only saving a remnant of Jews. For the most part many more Gentiles are being saved and only a small amount of Jews, which is the remnant Paul speaks of in Romans 11:5, 6.

There is a future time when God will turn the outpouring of the gospel to Jews and open their eyes to receive Jesus as messiah in mass numbers...and that is the sign we believers should see as a sign of the return of Christ.

Paul writes "so all Israel will be saved"..."ALL ISRAEL" is the true Israel of God, which is the "spiritual Israel"...and NOT ethnic Israel. Paul has made that distinction by the phrase "according to the flesh", and that is how we distinguish the ethnic Jew from the "spiritual Jew"

Paul has made the point that ALL BELIEVERS are spiritual Jews in Romans 2:28, 29...that is the whole key to understanding the spiritual Jew.

Paul has quoted Isaiah 59:20, 21...at Romans 11:26, 27 as the prophecy of the OT that makes the point...and HOW it should be viewed!

Just as Jesus said in Matthew 23:39:
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

That's a true sign of the our Lords return...when we see the outpouring of God's Spirit on the ethnic Jews!!!

 

[HannibalFlavius]

The major sign that Jesus' return is near is discussed by Paul in Romans 11:25-27:
25 For I do not want you brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,“The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
27 “This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

At this juncture in history, God is still only saving a remnant of Jews. For the most part many more Gentiles are being saved and only a small amount of Jews, which is the remnant Paul speaks of in Romans 11:5, 6.

There is a future time when God will turn the outpouring of the gospel to Jews and open their eyes to receive Jesus as messiah in mass numbers...and that is the sign we believers should see as a sign of the return of Christ.

Paul writes "so all Israel will be saved"..."ALL ISRAEL" is the true Israel of God, which is the "spiritual Israel"...and NOT ethnic Israel. Paul has made that distinction by the phrase "according to the flesh", and that is how we distinguish the ethnic Jew from the "spiritual Jew"

Paul has made the point that ALL BELIEVERS are spiritual Jews in Romans 2:28, 29...that is the whole key to understanding the spiritual Jew.

Paul has quoted Isaiah 59:20, 21...at Romans 11:26, 27 as the prophecy of the OT that makes the point...and HOW it should be viewed!

Just as Jesus said in Matthew 23:39:
39 For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

That's a true sign of the our Lords return...when we see the outpouring of God's Spirit on the ethnic Jews!!!

The hardening of Israel UNTIL the fullness of the gentiles are come in, AND THEN ALL ISRAEL will be saved, the Messiah comes out of Zion and turns away unrighteousness from Israel.

We cannot be gathered without Israel.

That IS the mystery, that God will turn to Jacob because they are enemies for our sake now, but they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

God chooses them again and again.

All the promises to the gentiles are to the gentiles who help Gather God's people.

Many gentiles are saved, but the gentiles who spend their own money helping Jews return, those gentiles will be given great honor because they blessed God's chosen people.

God says that he will take gentiles as Levites, the gentiles who carry the Jews on their backs back to their land.

That is happening right now, and if God has blessed them right now by having so many gentiles carry them back to the land, then what does it say about the love of God for his people?

If so many gentiles have been used to carry Jews back, and are given such great promises for carrying them back, then what does it say about how much God loves these Jews?

ALL Israel must be gathered, not just gentiles who have joined Israel through the promise of Ephraim's return.

Ephraim must become one with Judah, meaning that all Israel will be together. Ephraim without Judah or Judah without Ephraim is not all Israel.

God has two sons and the prodigal son has to return to Judah, the two must become one.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

If the Mosque was not on the Temple site, the Temple could still not be built.

They don't have the measurements of a cubit, they can't build it, it cannot be built.

They are literally waiting on a Messiah who they say will tell them the true measurements of the cubit which was changed by Ezekiel.

They are so focused on the precise details that construction could not begin until the measurements are defined by a coming prophet or Messiah.

And if they were to somehow build a Temple, they could not sacrifice in the Temple because they do not believe in sacrifices anymore.

They all know that sacrifices could only begin if a prophet or Messiah comes and institutes it.

But the Temple will not and could not be built unless the Jews believe in Jesus and built such a temple to teach the religion of Jesus.

It is only after the Messiah comes that a Temple is even talked about.

But we are that Temple, and we are that temple in Revelation 11 where the people are counted and measured, not the temple itself.

People are counted and measured who occupy the two sections of the Temple proper.

The gentiles who have come up to the temple of the Lord and remained gentiles are not counted, and they fight against the people of the temple proper.

 

[JLB777]

... been thinking about all this the last few days ... how is the daily oblation and sacrifce of God's people to be made to stop if it isn't being done in the temple now ... it would have to be after the temple was built again ... and after God's people had regained control ... or at the least after God's people regain control ... in that case, why the need of a new temple ...

and that's as far as i got ...

 

[ebedmelech]

The hardening of Israel UNTIL the fullness of the gentiles are come in, AND THEN ALL ISRAEL will be saved, the Messiah comes out of Zion and turns away unrighteousness from Israel.

We cannot be gathered without Israel.

That IS the mystery, that God will turn to Jacob because they are enemies for our sake now, but they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

God chooses them again and again.

All the promises to the gentiles are to the gentiles who help Gather God's people.

Many gentiles are saved, but the gentiles who spend their own money helping Jews return, those gentiles will be given great honor because they blessed God's chosen people.

God says that he will take gentiles as Levites, the gentiles who carry the Jews on their backs back to their land.

That is happening right now, and if God has blessed them right now by having so many gentiles carry them back to the land, then what does it say about the love of God for his people?

If so many gentiles have been used to carry Jews back, and are given such great promises for carrying them back, then what does it say about how much God loves these Jews?

ALL Israel must be gathered, not just gentiles who have joined Israel through the promise of Ephraim's return.

Ephraim must become one with Judah, meaning that all Israel will be together. Ephraim without Judah or Judah without Ephraim is not all Israel.

God has two sons and the prodigal son has to return to Judah, the two must become one.

When you understand the 12 tribes are nothing anymore Hannibal, you might understand.

When God speaks of the 12 tribes in Rev 7 what's the perfect number? 12,000!

Take that times 12 and you get the perfect thousand of 144,000 which represents the fulness of the "Israel of God".

This is why when John turns to look he sees "a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues..."

That is what the 144,000 is...ALL OF THE REDEEMED OF GOD!!!!

 

[HannibalFlavius]

When you understand the 12 tribes are nothing anymore Hannibal, you might understand.

When God speaks of the 12 tribes in Rev 7 what's the perfect number? 12,000!

Take that times 12 and you get the perfect thousand of 144,000 which represents the fulness of the "Israel of God".

This is why when John turns to look he sees "a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues..."

That is what the 144,000 is...ALL OF THE REDEEMED OF GOD!!!!

I know that gentiles are included in Israel Ebed, but they are the gentiles who love Israel, who bless Israel and who have become one with Israel.

There is no difference between Jew and gentile when the gentile is grafted into the religion of the Jews.

But how many gentiles become one with Jews?

How many gentiles have chosen the one true God and his Sabbaths, his feast days?

Would you point me to gentiles who have converted to the worship system of Babylon and say these are Israelites?

I should say not.

But point me to the Gentile who converts to the religion of God, his Sabbaths and who love his people, then I will point and say also,'' Here is an Israelite.''

Are you going to show me gentiles who have a Babylonian worship system?

I would point and say,'' This is not an Israelite.''

Point me to people who despise the Jews?

This is not an Israelite who loves Israel.

 

[ebedmelech]

I know that gentiles are included in Israel Ebed, but they are the gentiles who love Israel, who bless Israel and who have become one with Israel.

There is no difference between Jew and gentile when the gentile is grafted into the religion of the Jews.

But how many gentiles become one with Jews?

How many gentiles have chosen the one true God and his Sabbaths, his feast days?

Would you point me to gentiles who have converted to the worship system of Babylon and say these are Israelites?

I should say not.

But point me to the Gentile who converts to the religion of God, his Sabbaths and who love his people, then I will point and say also,'' Here is an Israelite.''

Are you going to show me gentiles who have a Babylonian worship system?

I would point and say,'' This is not an Israelite.''

Point me to people who despise the Jews?

This is not an Israelite who loves Israel.

All you have to do is let the scripture tell you. It is said many times when it comes to Jews and Gentiles in Christ "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE", then you simply believe it.

It could be said no clearer than it is said in Ephesians 2:19-21:
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,

I don't think it can be any clearer...

 

[GUANO]

There are no biblical prophecies regarding a third temple nor even the current state of Israel. The sacrifice was made desolate by christ because he sacrificed himself and thus made it spiritually empty and meaningless. 70 weeks of Dan have nothing to do with the Antichrist or a third temple.

 

[ebedmelech]

There are no biblical prophecies regarding a third temple nor even the current state of Israel. The sacrifice was made desolate by christ because he sacrificed himself and thus made it spiritually empty and meaningless. 70 weeks of Dan have nothing to do with the Antichrist or a third temple.

I can't agree with the thought of the AOD being Christ on the cross, though I follow the thinking. Of course after Christ any temple sacrifices and offerings were meaningless.

The problem I see...is the fact that as Christ prophesied the temple destruction, He spoke "When you see the AOD spoken of Daniel the prophet"...this is specific to the temple!

For that reason I think one must see that...as specific to the temple. It is a statement to the Jews, that "their house" (temple), is desolate, according to Matthew 23;37-29.