Ideal Designs for Noah's Ark

Strathos

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I am not too impressed with "Mensa level scientists". The important question is whether a scientist publishes his work in a relevant field in well respected professional journals. Under that reasonable criterion your claim fails. Real scientists know that it never happened. If one takes any version seriously Noah and family get cooked several times over.

If the flood happened it would have left all sorts of evidence. That evidence is missing and what we see refutes the flood story.

Only if you assume a global flood rather than a very large local one.
 
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Strathos

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A "very large local one" makes the Ark superfluous. Why didn't Noah and family simply walk away? He had something like a hundred years to do so.

Because that's not what God commanded him to do.
 
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Halbhh

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The difference of course being that Pyramids are there so they were clearly built and we have pretty good idea how it was done and it doesn’t need anything supernatural.

There is exactly zero evidence for Ark being anything other than work of fiction.

Apart from the silliness of what we estimate now to be around 9 million species to be crammed in to a wooden tub

Species count put at 8.7 million Species count put at 8.7 million

and being cared for by a few people being physical impossibility even the Ark replicates having been made are not seaworthy.

You mention we don’t know what technology they had so we go back to Tardis. As reasonable to claim miracle if we have to assume they had superior technology to what we have now.

Also if we just follow the animals themselves the ark becomes just a myth.

If all the animals were grounded in Middle East we would expect to see all the animals to spread out from there.

But funnily enough there are no kangaroo fossils anywhere except Australia. Or other ingenious species tied to special geographic locations.

How is that possible if they all started at Middle East ?

It isn’t of course because ark is a myth and kangaroos -shockingly - evolved in Australian continent.
I've long seen the Flood story in Genesis chapter 6 as a parable. A parable is told of course in order to convey some crucial message about life and our choices and relationship with God. And...if a person simply reads, with a listening attitude, the story, starting at verse 5, they will get some pretty profound messages about humans and life. Between just verse 5 and 11, already....
Those are probably the most key things for us to hear. If anyone hasn't heard them well, they just missed the entire story, as far as I understand. People get caught up arguing about concrete details, as if it was merely a meaningless history or story. Of course, any valuable story has meaning. To me, 99.9% or even 100% of the significance and meaning of the story will be in the parable type meanings, what is conveyed about life and living and us and God, together.
 
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Strathos

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Now you are making the story silly. A flood that would have killed a handful of people does not accomplish the goal. Your version does not even begin to threaten man.

Maybe the wickedness that needed to be destroyed was concentrated?
 
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Aussie Pete

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I expect no other response from an atheist. I'll not bother pointing you to any published literature. I've had enough dealings with atheists to know that it's a waste of time. If you honestly want to know the truth, the God that you do not believe in will reveal it to you. The evidence is everywhere. If it was water, you'd be drowning. You just refuse to accept the truth.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I've long seen the Flood story in Genesis chapter 6 as a parable. A parable is told of course in order to convey some crucial message about life and our choices and relationship with God. And...if a person simply reads, with a listening attitude, the story, starting at verse 5, they will get some pretty profound messages about humans and life. Between just verse 5 and 11, already....
Those are probably the most key things for us to hear. If anyone hasn't heard them well, they just missed the entire story, as far as I understand. People get caught up arguing about concrete details, as if it was merely a meaningless history or story. Of course, any valuable story has meaning. To me, 99.9% or even 100% of the significance and meaning of the story will be in the parable type meanings, what is conveyed about life and living and us and God, together.
Jesus did not think it a parable. Perhaps you should reconsider.
 
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Halbhh

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Jesus did not think it a parable. Perhaps you should reconsider.
When Jesus told parables, He was telling you and me, anyone willing to be humble enough to listen TRUTHS that are more absolutely true than so called 'facts' that you or I think we know about (!). More True. His Words are more true than your thoughts and my thoughts. So, when we read, we should really listen, and not think we already know. That's another way of saying what I said above.
 
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sjastro

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While people can speculate endlessly on whether Noah's Ark is fact or fiction, the oldest boat (c 2500 BC) found which has been reassembled and amazingly is still seaworthy is Khufu's ship the pharaoh whose tomb is the Great Pyramid.

It was found in a disassembled state.

Barque_solaire-Decouverte2.jpg

It took years of reconstruction.

img6-9382-825.jpg
 
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Aussie Pete

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When Jesus told parables, He was telling you and me, anyone willing to be humble enough to listen TRUTHS that are more absolutely true than so called 'facts' that you or I think we know about (!). More True. His Words are more true than your thoughts and my thoughts. So, when we read, we should really listen, and not think we already know. That's another way of saying what I said above.
There is a process that God takes us through (if we are willing) called the renewing of the mind. That means that entrenched prejudices and arguments against the truth of God's word are replaced with the truth. I've had to change a lot of my thinking over the decades. If you read what Jesus had to say about parables, it was to keep the hostile and unbelieving in ignorance and to enlighten those who love the truth. I can see no reason to believe that the Flood account is a parable. The opposite. It sure is a warning that God will eventually call time on the world's wickedness and judgement will be released. Famine, earthquakes, wars, great fear and much destruction will not be parables. Matthew 24: 6 & 7 Neither was God's judgement on Noah's generation. 1 Peter 3:20, Matthew 24:37 & 38 and even the OT, Isaiah 54:9. God said that He covered the earth with water. If God says so, who am I to disagree?
 
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Halbhh

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There is a process that God takes us through (if we are willing) called the renewing of the mind. That means that entrenched prejudices and arguments against the truth of God's word are replaced with the truth. I've had to change a lot of my thinking over the decades. If you read what Jesus had to say about parables, it was to keep the hostile and unbelieving in ignorance and to enlighten those who love the truth. I can see no reason to believe that the Flood account is a parable. The opposite. It sure is a warning that God will eventually call time on the world's wickedness and judgement will be released. Famine, earthquakes, wars, great fear and much destruction will not be parables. Matthew 24: 6 & 7 Neither was God's judgement on Noah's generation. 1 Peter 3:20, Matthew 24:37 & 38 and even the OT, Isaiah 54:9. God said that He covered the earth with water. If God says so, who am I to disagree?
Factual stories in the scripture are often parables also, both at once. Sorry if I caused confusion on that part. It is crucially important not to get stuck arguing mere physical particulars and miss the key messages. If someone emphasizes stuff physically about the flood, they might be to caught up in useless arguing and missing the meanings, the life changing messages.
 
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pgp_protector

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I wonder about a few windows at the front and a few windows at the back? This might create a chimney-like draft that would move air along the length of the Ark.

Still too many.

KJV 15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

NKJV 15 And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
 
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cloudyday2

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Still too many.

KJV 15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

NKJV 15 And this is how you shall make it: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 You shall make a window for the ark, and you shall finish it to a cubit from above; and set the door of the ark in its side. You shall make it with lower, second, and third decks.
It seems the Ark would have been a death trap with only a single window 1 cubit square. The seaworthiness of the Ark would have been irrelevant, because everybody would have passed-out and died from the bad air before the flooding had even started.

The text you quoted seems pretty specific, but there must be another way to understand it.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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It seems the Ark would have been a death trap with only a single window 1 cubit square. The seaworthiness of the Ark would have been irrelevant, because everybody would have passed-out and died from the bad air before the flooding had even started.

The text you quoted seems pretty specific, but there must be another way to understand it.
Yep - it's not literal history.
 
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Speedwell

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There is a process that God takes us through (if we are willing) called the renewing of the mind. That means that entrenched prejudices and arguments against the truth of God's word are replaced with the truth. I've had to change a lot of my thinking over the decades. If you read what Jesus had to say about parables, it was to keep the hostile and unbelieving in ignorance and to enlighten those who love the truth. I can see no reason to believe that the Flood account is a parable. The opposite. It sure is a warning that God will eventually call time on the world's wickedness and judgement will be released. Famine, earthquakes, wars, great fear and much destruction will not be parables. Matthew 24: 6 & 7 Neither was God's judgement on Noah's generation. 1 Peter 3:20, Matthew 24:37 & 38 and even the OT, Isaiah 54:9. God said that He covered the earth with water. If God says so, who am I to disagree?
So if Christians draw the same lessons from the story whether it's taken as literal history or not, why is it so important that it be literal history? It's still the inspired and authoritative word of God either way.
 
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Aussie Pete

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So if Christians draw the same lessons from the story whether it's taken as literal history or not, why is it so important that it be literal history? It's still the inspired and authoritative word of God either way.
In a way, you are right. The problem is, where do you draw the line? Was King David a real person, or a myth? I believe him to be real. If he is real, why not Noah? Was Moses real? Lord Jesus spoke of him as if he was - as He did with Noah. How about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? God calls Himself the God of all three men. Is He the God of myths? Paul stated, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness...."
Paul was referring to the Old Testament. The New Testament was being preached and not a lot had been recorded.
 
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Speedwell

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In a way, you are right. The problem is, where do you draw the line? Was King David a real person, or a myth? I believe him to be real. If he is real, why not Noah? Was Moses real? Lord Jesus spoke of him as if he was - as He did with Noah. How about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? God calls Himself the God of all three men. Is He the God of myths? Paul stated, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness...."
Paul was referring to the Old Testament. The New Testament was being preached and not a lot had been recorded.
It's not really an issue about whether any of those individuals were real. Ultimately it's an argument about the text itself. Are those stories accounts of those (very likely) real people written according to the historiographic standards of the day? Or are they literal and inerrant--meaning that you can decode things from them that may not be directly related to the narrative? As, for example, YECs decode the age of the Earth, which nowhere stated or considered in the Bible.
 
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