Icons on the Iconostasis? And other questions about services...

[“Paisios”]

I recently attended my first Orthodox services (Greek Orthodox) in two separate churches, and am just starting to try to process it all. Wonderful experience, but overwhelming.

So I have some questions. I guess the first would be the icons on the iconostasis. I noticed similarities between the two churches, and am guessing at the icons on it. I noticed from left to right facing it, that in both cases there were six icons - an angel (perhaps Gabriel), the next was different in each church, but I am guessing was that of the patron saint of the church, then the Theotokos with the infant Jesus; then on the right hand side (from left to right), an icon of the adult Christ (would this be the Jesus Pantokrator?), then apparently St. John the Baptist, and then another angel (perhaps Archangel Michael?).

1. Are these icons “standard” between churches or do they vary, and does this vary between the Greek vs. Russian vs. OCA vs. other Orthodox churches?
2. Am I correct in my guesses as to which each icons is?
3. Is there specific meaning to why these particular icons were placed on the iconostasis as opposed to others?

Other questions I have related to the service but not the icons...

1. At the first service (Vespers), bread was handed out at the end, which they called (forgive my spelling if wrong) artos, and at the end of the Divine Liturgy, other bread called antidoron was given. Are these different terms for the same thing or is there a difference? I am told that this is blessed bread, but permitted to the non-Orthodox, but could someone tell me the significance of it?

2. In both churches, on the central area of the ceiling of the sanctuary, was a giant icon of the Theotokos. From a visitor’s perspective, this icon seemed to overshadow even those of the Christ. I am curious why this would be the central figure?

As I continue to process, I am sure that I will have many more questions. Thank you in advance for your answers and patience.

 

[Chesterton]

So I have some questions. I guess the first would be the icons on the iconostasis. I noticed similarities between the two churches, and am guessing at the icons on it. I noticed from left to right facing it, that in both cases there were six icons - an angel (perhaps Gabriel), the next was different in each church, but I am guessing was that of the patron saint of the church, then the Theotokos with the infant Jesus; then on the right hand side (from left to right), an icon of the adult Christ (would this be the Jesus Pantokrator?), then apparently St. John the Baptist, and then another angel (perhaps Archangel Michael?).

1. Are these icons “standard” between churches or do they vary, and does this vary between the Greek vs. Russian vs. OCA vs. other Orthodox churches?

For a partial answer, my church is Antiochian, and yes, our icons are the same, left to right: patron saint, Theotokos with Christ child, Christ, then John. In the past, we had two doors in the iconostasis which displayed icons of Gabriel and Michael. At some point, the doors were replaced with curtains, so those icons are no longer there. Also, on the wall to the left and right of the iconostasis, there is an additional icon of Christ, and an additional icon of St. Anthony, which I believe was gifted to us by the Russian church in town.

2. Am I correct in my guesses as to which each icons is?

I think so.

 

[FenderTL5]

iconostasis: Orthodoxwiki link showing the layout
you have the right idea.

 

[“Paisios”]

For a partial answer, my church is Antiochian, and yes, our icons are the same, left to right: patron saint, Theotokos with Christ child, Christ, then John. In the past, we had two doors in the iconostasis which displayed icons of Gabriel and Michael. At some point, the doors were replaced with curtains, so those icons are no longer there. Also, on the wall to the left and right of the iconostasis, there is an additional icon of Christ, and an additional icon of St. Anthony, which I believe was gifted to us by the Russian church in town.



I think so.

Thank you for the response.

Yes, there were many, many more icons in each of these churches, but so many, I could not ask all in one post, so started with the iconostasis. I am sure I will have many, many more questions, until you all get as tired of me as a parent gets with a toddler asking “why?”.

 

[“Paisios”]

iconostasis: Orthodoxwiki link showing the layout
you have the right idea.

Thank you.

That is a very helpful link. In my mind, I misplaced the angels, thinking that Gabriel, the angel who announced the birth of the Christ, would be closer to the icon of the Theotokos and Child, but I am pleased that I was able to figure out some of them myself.

 

[FenderTL5]

Thank you.

That is a very helpful link. In my mind, I misplaced the angels, thinking that Gabriel, the angel who announced the birth of the Christ, would be closer to the icon of the Theotokos and Child, but I am pleased that I was able to figure out some of them myself.

As the link indicates; it can vary some.
In our parish the deacon's doors are further apart from the Beautiful Gate, they are also architecturally in a different place than in the graphic.

(L-R, beginning at Arch Angel Michael on the north Deacon's door)
Michael, St Nektarios, Hospitality of Abraham, Theotokos, [Beautiful Gate w/Annunciation] Christ, John the Baptist, St Mark, Gabriel.

(note: there are icons behind the columns on each side, not shown, nor listed)

 

[Chesterton]

I am sure I will have many, many more questions, until you all get as tired of me as a parent gets with a toddler asking “why?”.

I know exactly how you feel. I had (and still have) a thousand questions. A really nice thing about an internet forum is you don't have to bother one person, like a priest, with a thousand questions; you can bother many knowledgeable people here, who are usually happy to answer.

It's good to ask why things are done in Orthodoxy, because everything is done for a reason. Sometimes there's room for variance, and some things may be more essential than other things, but nothing is done flippantly. Everything is meaningful, because Christianity is taken seriously.

 

[“Paisios”]

As the link indicates; it can vary some.
In our parish the deacon's doors are further apart from the Beautiful Gate, they are also architecturally in a different place than in the graphic.
View attachment 211166
(L-R, beginning at Arch Angel Michael on the north Deacon's door)
Michael, St Nektarios, Hospitality of Abraham, Theotokos, [Beautiful Gate w/Annunciation] Christ, John the Baptist, St Mark, Gabriel.

(note: there are icons behind the columns on each side, not shown, nor listed)

Beautiful and informative. Thank you kindly.

In both of the churches I visited, the deacon’s doors were located in the iconostasis (in your picture at what would be St. Nektarios, and St. Mark) and the angels’ icons were there.

 

[“Paisios”]

I know exactly how you feel. I had (and still have) a thousand questions. A really nice thing about an internet forum is you don't have to bother one person, like a priest, with a thousand questions; you can bother many knowledgeable people here, who are usually happy to answer.

It's good to ask why things are done in Orthodoxy, because everything is done for a reason. Sometimes there's room for variance, and some things may be more essential than other things, but nothing is done flippantly. Everything is meaningful, because Christianity is taken seriously.

Yes, this forum has been a blessing. Yet I still feel I must be a bother to many (especially ArmyMatt, among others, who has been so helpful), with my many basic questions. And it is partly so I don’t pester the local priest that I ask so many questions here. He was kind enough to invite me to breakfast with his family after Liturgy yesterday, where I monopolized his time with so many questions about prayer and other things, that I would feel badly intruding further into his time. I know he has other and more important duties than to answer my basic questions!

Again, my gratitude for your patience and graciousness, and those of others here.

 

[prodromos]

2. In both churches, on the central area of the ceiling of the sanctuary, was a giant icon of the Theotokos. From a visitor’s perspective, this icon seemed to overshadow even those of the Christ. I am curious why this would be the central figure?

The icon should have the Christ child in front of her. This icon is named "wider than the heavens" (platytera ton ouranon) which refers to the womb of Mary the Theotokos carrying within the infinite God, containing the uncontainable.

Christ Pantokrator is painted in the dome over the centre of the nave if one exists, which, from memory, symbolises the infinite, while the half dome over the sanctuary symbolises the bridge between the finite and the infinite.

 

[“Paisios”]

The icon should have the Christ child in front of her. This icon is named "wider than the heavens" (platytera ton ouranon) which refers to the womb of Mary the Theotokos carrying within the infinite God, containing the uncontainable.

Christ Pantokrator is painted in the dome over the centre of the nave if one exists, which, from memory, symbolises the infinite, while the half dome over the sanctuary symbolises the bridge between the finite and the infinite.

Yes, there was a smaller Christ child in front. Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. There is so much symbolism and so complex in these churches. So much to learn.

 

[ArmyMatt]

the icon of Mary on the left and Christ on the right also indicate His two comings. this is why most of what is done in Church is between those two icons, since that is where we are now in salvation history.

 

[“Paisios”]

the icon of Mary on the left and Christ on the right also indicate His two comings. this is why most of what is done in Church is between those two icons, since that is where we are now in salvation history.

Thank you, Father. So much to digest and consider.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you, Father. So much to digest and consider.

indeed, it's inexhaustible