I will lead My People into the Holy Land

[keras]

Hosea 1:10-11 The Israelites will be as countless as the sands of the sea. The time will come when it will no longer be said of them; ‘You are not My people’, and they will be called ‘Children of the Living God’. The people of Judah and Israel will be reunited and will choose for themselves one leader, they will prosper in the Land, for great will be the Day of Jezreel. Romans 9:24-27
Choose their leader; before the Return of Jesus. Jezreel means punishment, this refers to the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, that will clear the Land for this reunion and for the Lord’s favour to His people. Isaiah 10:22, Ezekiel 35:15-27, Jeremiah 30:21

Hosea 3:4-5 The Israelites will be for a long time without a King or leader and without the Temple sacrifices, or the sacred observances. After that, they will again seek the Lord and their Davidic King. All Israel will turn with reverence to their God and seek His favour for the days to come. Isaiah 55:6-7, Psalm 105:1-5

Hosea 12:6-9 Turn back by God’s help, maintain loyalty and justice and wait continually for your God. Ephraim says; surely I have become rich, I am strong and prosperous, sin will not be found in me. The Lord says; From your days in Egypt, I am still your God, you will live in tents yet again, as you did in the Exodus.

Ephraim, the leader of the ten Northern tribes: the House of Israel, among the Western nations, is strong and prosperous. They believe their kind of worship will save them. Isaiah 2:6-8, Isaiah 58:1-5

Hosea 2:13 I shall punish her [Israel] for her sins against Me, when forgetful of Me, she ran off to worship other gods. Ezekiel 4:4-6, Leviticus 26:18
Punishment by exile for a decreed time, now nearly completed. Ezekiel 4:4-6

Hosea 2:14-15 But now, I shall woo her and lead My people into a deserted place, I will encourage them and restore their Land. Then the Israelites will respond as did their ancestors when they came out of Egypt. Ezekiel 20:34-36, Deut. 30:5

Hosea 11:8-11 How can I reject you, Israel and make you like those nations that have died out? A change of heart moves Me; I am the Lord, not a mortal, I will not destroy My people. They will follow their Lord when He calls, they will come from all parts of the earth and I will settle them in houses in their own Land. This is the Word of the Lord. Isaiah 62:1-5, Jeremiah 30:1-40, Zechariah 8:2-8

Hosea 2:16-23 On that Day My people will call Me their ‘Husband’, for I shall betroth Myself to them forever, bestowing righteousness, justice, loyalty and love. I will remove all dangers from them, they will live without fear in a plentiful Land. The people once called ‘Not loved’, and ‘Not My people’, will inhabit their inheritance. I will say to them ‘You are My people’ and they will say; ‘You are our God’. Romans 9:24-26 This refers to every faithful Christian, from every race, nation and language.

Hosea 14:4-8 I shall heal My peoples apostasy, I shall love them freely for my anger is turned away from them. I shall be as dew to Israel, they will dwell in My shadow, so that they may flourish and prosper. I declare and affirm that I, the Lord am the strong tree that shelters My people, they will be famous for their prosperity.

Hosea 14:9 Let the wise consider these things and let the prudent acknowledge them. The Lord’s Laws are right and His people obey them, but sinners fall. Isaiah 1:27-28
Reference: REB, some verses abridged.

This prophecy does not fit with the Jewish return to a small part of the holy Land. It is unfulfilled Prophecy and My people; are the faithful Christian peoples of God.
Hosea 2:14-15 But now, I shall woo her and lead My people into a deserted place, I will encourage them and restore their Land. Then the Israelites will respond as did their ancestors when they came out of Egypt.

We await the multi prophesied Day when the Lord will clear and cleanse all of the Holy Land and we Christian peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language. will travel there to live in peace and prosperity. Psalms 107

 

[keras]

Isaiah 26:11 Lord; Your hand is lifted high, let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The godless cannot see how You will protect Your people.

Isaiah 26:20-21 Go My people, enter your rooms and shut the doors after you. Withdraw for a little while, until the Lord’s wrath has passed. The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their sins. Then the earth will show the blood shed on it and hide the slain no more.

Isaiah 25:9 On that Day, Your people will say: See, this is our God, we have waited for Him and He will deliver us, let us rejoice and exult in His deliverance.

Isaiah 25:1-3 God Almighty, You are my God, I shall praise You, for You have done wonderful things – long planned, certain and sure. You have turned cities into heaps of rubble, their houses swept away – never to be rebuilt. For this, many a cruel nation is in awe of You.


Isaiah 26:16-19 In our distress, Lord, we sought You out, chastened by the whisper of Your rebuke. As a woman with child cries out in her pains, so were we because of You, Lord. Our labour has been in vain, we achieved nothing for Your Land or people. But Your dead will live, those long dead who lay in the earth, will rise again, they will arise and shout for joy.

Isaiah 25:4-5 Truly, You have been a refuge to the poor and needy in their distress, their shelter from the tempest, shade from the heat. For the attack of the godless gets them nowhere and You silence the uproar of our enemies.

Isaiah 26:15 Lord, You have enlarged the nation and won honour for Yourself. You have extended all the frontiers of this country.

Isaiah 26:1-2 On that Day this song will be sung in Judah; We have a strong city – Open the gates, let a righteous nation enter, a people who kept the faith.
Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged


The Lord’s hand of judgement is ready to strike, the fire reserved for Your enemies will consume them. Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Revelation 6:12-17
for the attack of the godless gets them nowhere, The fulfilment of Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12, Jeremiah 49:35-37

Whole cities are destroyed and those killed will lie unburied. Amos 1:1-15, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 9:22, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 17:1

But the Lord will be a refuge for His righteous people. Psalms 62:5-8, Zephaniah 2:3

..shade from the heat, they; withdraw for a little while,– take shelter from the fire reserved for His enemies, a huge Coronal Mass Ejection fireball, that will destroy them.
Isaiah 30:26-30, Proverbs 3:25-26, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7

Then: a righteous nation [people group] enters, Matthew 21:43, into all of the holy Land area, as promised to the Patriarchs, by descent or grafted in by faith. Galatians 3:36-29
They will live in the new country of Beulah, all of the holy Land: in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 31:10-14, Isaiah 27:6, Ezekiel 28:24-26, Romans 9:24-26

They are all the faithful Christians from every race, nation and language, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9, who will fulfill their destiny to be a light to the nations and His witnesses to the world. Isaiah 43:10-12, John 15:27, Isaiah 66:19, Isaiah 49:8

Your dead will rise again This happens later, Jesus will bring the souls of the dead martyrs with Him at His Return. Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 20:4 and then, after the Millennium. all who have ever lived will stand before God in Judgement. Revelation 20:11-15 and those people found worthy; their names Written in the Book of Life, will receive immortality.

 

[Douggg]

If those verses apply to "faithful Christians from all nations" - migrating to a depopulated current nation of Israel, made so by a solar event, then why does Jesus send his angels out to gather the elect in Matthew 24:31 ?

 

[Lost4words]

Keras, its 'your' interpretation of said scripture. Yet again.

I dont see it like that my friend.

 

[keras]

If those verses apply to "faithful Christians from all nations" - migrating to a depopulated current nation of Israel, made so by a solar event, then why does Jesus send his angels out to gather the elect in Matthew 24:31 ?

Because the Lord's faithful Christian people will be in the place of safety, Revelation 12:14, a place far distant from Jerusalem.
Those Christians who have to remain in the holy Land when the Anti-Christ takes it over, Revelation 13:5-8, Daniel 7:23-25, because they violated the Covenant with God for His protection, [NOT the treaty mentioned in Daniel 9:27, - the Covenant in Ezekiel 37:26-27] will mostly get killed; unless they renounce Jesus. But Jesus will bring the souls of those martyrs with Him at the Return. Revelation 20:4
The transportation from their place of safety to where Jesus will be, is clearly Prophesied by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

I can post many other Prophesies which prove that our destiny as Christian peoples, is to live in all of the holy Land. The Lord' people, from every tribe, race, nation and language, displaying God's glory to the world, as He always wanted, but has not yet had.

The reason that people like yourself and L4W, cannot see this truth, is because you have chosen to believe false theories and to follow doctrines of error. Isaiah 29:9-12
That is how God wants it to be, so the best I can hope for is that at least people here have read the Prophesies about going to live in the holy Land and when things really start to happen, you will know it is from the Lord.

 

[keras]

I will give the Land to new owners:

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +



Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.
This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.
On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.



This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.


What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, is one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph

 

[Tigger Boy]

keras, It is evident you are sincere in what you present in your study. As you know there are others including me, who are just as sincere in what they believe, however, different from what you believe. Let's give God praise in acknowledging that He knows the heart of each of us and does not require absolute knowledge of truth on our part in order that we can be saved, but rather, faith alone. That is not to say that truth in Christ has no benefit in our christian experience, for I believe it can give us a more accurate picture of God, His love, mercy, justice and plans. And the more clearly we understand Him the more likely we will want to follow Him, thus our faith will grow stronger.

I just pray that you will read the following of which I had posted earlier in a different thread, for I believe you also, are misunderstanding Gods plans.

David.
Your thread has gotten a lot of traction. It is my prayer that all who have contributed will consider the following, "progressive revelation", which will resolve the "internal conflict" your raise in this thread between Rev.19, and Zec.14. It will require humility on the part of all who desire to be enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

I will offer up the following insights, (not mine) but I believe they make perfect sense, and does not put the Bible in a state of internal conflict, as the posts on this thread demonstrates. First it is important to understand, it is our understanding that puts the bible in such a state, for the Bible never contradicts itself. Therefore, we must rethink the issue until we discover the harmony of the sum of all it's parts. This could take, days, weeks, months, or years.

(Plan A, Israel as trustees) (Plan B, The 144,000 servants/Prophets as Trustees)

Under the “new” covenant, there is a “new” Israel. A “new” sequence of prophetic events will culminate with a second advent. The prophecies in Daniel and Revelation concern “Plan B.” Mixing and/or merging different types of prophecies produces insurmountable confusion. Prophecies belonging to Plan A [All OT prophecies, Zec. included] will not mix with Plan B prophecies. [Dan. & Rev.] Plan B is a bigger and better plan. Plan B contains a brighter set of promises and prophecies and unlike Plan A, Plan B is unconditional! This time around, God will not wait for a group of people to get their act together and He will not depend on a particular religious body of people to accomplish the gospel commission. At the appointed time, He will complete His work by hand picking 144,000 people from all over the world (Rev.7). These trustees of God, having Abraham’s faith and love for Him, will accomplish all that God wants done in a mere 1,260 days during the tribulation.

God has done a very clever thing by creating Plan B using parallels from Plan A. Remember that Plan A and Plan B cannot be mixed or merged. However, to appreciate Plan B, it is very helpful to understand some of the building blocks in Plan A. In this sense, the prophecies and promises in the Old Testament remain indispensable. By studying the Old Testament carefully, we can understand God’s plans better because there are many parallels between Plan A and Plan B.

Many people have asked if I think the Jews will rebuild the temple in Jerusalem because the Old Testament indicates the temple would be rebuilt. The Old Testament does indicate the temple would be rebuilt, but the Old Testament is not referring to a third temple. Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the first temple (Solomon’s temple) in 586 B.C. and four decrees were issued to rebuild it. The Romans completely destroyed the second temple in A.D. 70. There is no prophecy in the Bible indicating that a third temple will be built. The reason for this silence is because God abandoned the nation of Israel at the end of the seventy weeks. He destroyed Jerusalem and the temple because He had installed a new covenant and created a new Israel. God has no need for a third temple. Jesus told the Jews, “Look, your house [your temple] is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again [I will not live among you] until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ ” These two sentences are easy to understand. Jesus declared the temple of Israel, which was designed to be His dwelling place, would be left empty. Jesus declared this benediction on the temple because Israel had rejected Him, and as a result, He then rejected Israel. Second, Jesus made it perfectly clear in this text that He would never dwell in Israel again. Israel will not see Jesus again until the Second Coming, and then the Jews will be forced to say, “Blessed is he [Jesus] who comes in the name of the Lord.”

Historically speaking, the Roman army destroyed the second temple in A.D. 70. Later, a Moslem mosque (the Dome of the Rock) was built on the temple mount in A.D. 684. The presence of this mosque keeps the temple mount from Jewish control. God gave the site to the Moslems so that a third Jewish temple could not be built. Many Christians who do not understand Plan B are frustrated that a mosque now sits on the temple mount, but they should not be frustrated. There will not be a third temple. The temple that we should be focusing on and studying about is in Heaven! That is where Jesus lives and intercedes for us. Soon, Jesus will call for the seven trumpets of Revelation to begin! When that day arrives, the present confusion over rebuilding a third temple in Jerusalem will vanish.

Plan B Sealed Up
Now that we have discussed Plan A and Plan B at some length, please consider two statements:

1. God foreknew that Plan B would be necessary from the beginning and He began preparing for Plan B during the Babylonian captivity. The book of Daniel contains visions that pertain to Plan B.
2. God loved Israel as much as any father could love a child. He desperately wanted His trustees to do the work that He had chosen them to do. During the Babylonian captivity, God spoke to Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Through them, He gave Israel many encouraging prophecies and promises that would come to pass if Israel would cooperate with Him during the seventy weeks (Plan A). At the same time, God spoke to Daniel. Even though God revealed Plan B to Daniel, the information He gave to Daniel was sealed until the end of the world. If Israel had been faithful and Plan A was realized, the book of Daniel would not have been needed.

The Final Generation

The prophecies of Daniel and Revelation tell a story that covers many centuries. It gradually builds in intensity until it reaches the time of the final generation. This story contrasts the powers of sin and rebellion with the power of Jesus, revealing all who He really is. God hid this story from previous generations by hiding four rules in the book of Daniel. This process helped to keep prophetic matters a secret until the time arrives for fulfillment. God does this for two reasons. First, when the time for fulfillment comes, those who love truth move forward. They are spiritually renewed when they see God’s Word fulfilled with their own eyes, and in the process, those moving forward are separated from those who prefer darkness and tradition. This response to truth explains why some people were overjoyed when Jesus was born and others were deeply offended by His ministry. Second, as knowledge increases, man’s knowledge of God increases. God reveals new information about Himself in an orderly way so that His children can spiritually mature. Jesus told His disciples, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them [unbelievers].”

If being a part of the kingdom of Heaven is important to you, then the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven will be very important to you. On the other hand, when people are spiritually dead, secrets about the kingdom of Heaven are not important. From the beginning, God predetermined the number of days allotted to Earth’s existence. I believe the appointed time of the end has come because the book of Daniel has been unsealed. The architecture that has been hidden for twenty-six centuries has been discovered and the intended meaning of Daniel and Revelation is now available!

Dave, I copied these insights from a more in depth explanation, in my thread, "God Does Not Give Up". I would encourage you to consider reading it all.

Blessings

 

[keras]

I believe you also, are misunderstanding Gods plans.

What God has planned for our future, is plainly set out by all of His Prophets.
But it is hidden from all who have chosen to believe in false ideas and theories. I point out those prophesies, as above and they just go right over the head of people who grip onto fanciful notions like being whisked off to heaven before any trials or testing.

Only after the next Prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:4-6
Our destiny as faithful Christian peoples, is to be the people God always wanted in the holy Land. His witnesses and His Light to the nations.
We are very close now, to the terrible Day when the Lord will send His fiery wrath and will wipe out the ungodly wicked peoples of the entire Middle East. Zechariah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18

 

[Tigger Boy]

What God has planned for our future, is plainly set out by all of His Prophets.
But it is hidden from all who have chosen to believe in false ideas and theories. I point out those prophesies, as above and they just go right over the head of people who grip onto fanciful notions like being whisked off to heaven before any trials or testing.

Only after the next Prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:4-6
Our destiny as faithful Christian peoples, is to be the people God always wanted in the holy Land. His witnesses and His Light to the nations.
We are very close now, to the terrible Day when the Lord will send His fiery wrath and will wipe out the ungodly wicked peoples of the entire Middle East. Zechariah 1:14-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Romans 1:18

Keras

To better understand your mindset I have a few questions. You mention christians who believe they will be taken to heaven/secrete rapture, before any trials or testing. First, like you I do not believe that is biblical. I do believe in a tribulation which I’m assuming you mean, “trials, and testing.”

If my assumption is correct, then may I ask: What do you think God’s purpose is for bringing the tribulation on the world?

You believe the sixth seal is the next prophetic event to happen, and it is a worldwide disaster. However, in the following paragraph you state, “ the Lord will send His fiery wrath and wipe out the wicked ungodly people of the entire Middle East.” Why do you believe that when there are wicked people in all nations?

In Rev.5, Jesus is found worthy to receive a scowl from His Father, having the seven seals. In order to reveal it’s contents Jesus is required to open each seal. What is the reason for the seals as you understand them, and when was the first one opened, and what was the results?

 

[Douggg]

Only after the next Prophesied event; the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:4-6
Our destiny as faithful Christian peoples, is to be the people God always wanted in the holy Land. His witnesses and His Light to the nations.

It is good that you are so adamant about your interpretation. Because when it fails to happen as the next prophesied event - also are your other interpretation that Christians around the world will move to Israel in the aftermath, and that Christians are going to build the next temple.

The sixth seal cannot be the next event because it says in Revelation 6, pertaining to the sixth seal...

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Keras, what makes you think the world is going to see the throne of God with the glory of God shielding Him from direct sight, and Jesus on that day.... if the sixth seal is the next prophesied event?

The sixth seal event will be at the very end of the 7 years. Not before the 7 years even begin in your interpretation.

 

[keras]

What do you think God’s purpose is for bringing the tribulation on the word?

The great tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will be upon those who take the mark of the beast. Revelation 9:20-21
The faithful Christian people will be taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14

” Why do you believe that when there are wicked people in all nations?

Not all of the ungodly people will be killed at the Sixth Seal. Most will survive to become part of the new One World Govt. The fiery disaster sent by the Lord - the Sixth Seal, will strike the Middle East at mid-day. Zephaniah 2:4-5
Only a few Jewish Christians will survive by hiding underground. Isaiah 29:1-4

THEN; the call will go out for all the Christian believers to migrate into their heritage. Psalms 107 is a good prophecy about that.

What is the reason for the seals as you understand them, and when was the first one opened, and what was the results?

The first five Seals were opened by Jesus at His Ascension. Proved by all the Christian martyrs since Stephen.
The results are very evident; the terrible wars, the shocking famines, the horrible plagues and the disastrous economic crashes that the world has experienced since then and which seem to be increasing, like labor pangs before the birth.

 

[keras]

It is good that you are so adamant about your interpretation. Because when it fails to happen as the next prophesied event - also are your other interpretation that Christians around the world will move to Israel in the aftermath, and that Christians are going to build the next temple.

I simply read and understand what the Prophets have told us. So, when I see unbiblical ideas promoted, I call them out.
Why do you not want to live in the holy land? I assume you have read Isaiah 35:1-10 Who are the ransomed of the Lord, or as the REBible puts it; the Lord's people. who will travel to and live in the holy Land, blessed and prosperous?

Re; the new Temple; We surely know there has to be one for the AC to desecrate, 2 Thess 2:4 and it will be God's Temple as Paul clearly states. the Shekinah glory of God will be in it. Ezekiel 43:1-4

The sixth seal event will be at the very end of the 7 years

Do you not realize the terrible risk you take by shuffling Revelation? Doing that IS adding to and taking away from the Book of Revelation.

Keras, what makes you think the world is going to see the throne of God with the glory of God shielding Him from direct sight, and Jesus on that day.... if the sixth seal is the next prophesied event?

You make the fundamental error of assuming that the people referred to in Revelation 6:15-16, actually see God on His throne. They don't. as they are too busy diving for cover. What they call out, is similar to the cursing we hear from ungodly people, who blaspheme Jesus and God for any of their troubles.

 

[Douggg]

You make the fundamental error of assuming that the people referred to in Revelation 6:15-16, actually see God on His throne. They don't. as they are too busy diving for cover. What they call out, is similar to the cursing we hear from ungodly people, who blaspheme Jesus and God for any of their troubles.

keras, they are not diving from cover for survival. They are seeking to be killed by the mountains falling on them, rather than have to face God and Jesus. They don't say these very specific words....

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

...for no reason at all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

okay, take a look at Matthew 24:29....

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those daysshall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

That is Revelation 6:12-14.

next verse, Matthew 24:30 first part.

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

That is Revelation 6:16. The see Jesus in the third heaven. Furthermore, His intentions are quite clear, because in Revelation 14:14, it says....

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

keras, you are not going to be able to convince anyone that powers of heaven shaken, and the stars seemingly falling to the earth, and heaven departing like a scroll when it is rolled together - is going to happen TWICE. Once before the seven years begin, and then again at the end the seven years ... in your theoretical interpretation.

The sixth seal event in Revelation 6 and Matthew 24:29 after the tribulation of those days is one event, that takes place at the very end of the 7 year 70th week.

 

[keras]

keras, they are not diving from cover for survival. They are seeking to be killed by the mountains falling on them, rather than have to face God and Jesus. They don't say these very specific words....

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

...for no reason at all.

What nonsense! The people are trying to survive, to get under cover from the approaching mass of superheated plasma which the Lord will have caused the sun to blast out. At the exact time; Zephaniah 2:4 - mid day ME time and in the exact direction.
Isaiah 2:19 is a parallel prophecy; People will run into caves in the rocks and into holes in the ground, to escape the dread presence of the Lord and the splendour of His majesty when He arises to strike the world with terror.
They run for cover as they see their doom approaching, trying to escape being burned to death, Isaiah 66:15-17 The Lord is coming in fire and many will be burned up by it. The Jews, for example: Ezekiel 20:46-48, The other ME peoples as per Amos 1 & Ezekiel 30:1-5, +

keras, you are not going to be able to convince anyone that powers of heaven shaken, and the stars seemingly falling to the earth, and heaven departing like a scroll when it is rolled together - is going to happen TWICE. Once before the seven years begin, and then again at the end the seven years ...

The Prophesies which describe the glorious Return of Jesus for His thousand year reign on earth, do not mention any disasters other than the instant deaths of the attacking armies of the Anti-Christ, by the Sword of His Word. NOT worldwide terror!

There will be some cosmic signs, Matthew 24:29, but not the same as at the Sixth Seal.
God will sound His trumpet; 1 Thess 4:16

 

[Douggg]

What nonsense! The people are trying to survive, to get under cover from the approaching mass of superheated plasma which the Lord will have caused the sun to blast out.

Do you read anything about a superheated plasma in Revelation 6, the sixth seal ? No, there is no such thing in the text.

What the text say is...

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

The Prophesies which describe the glorious Return of Jesus for His thousand year reign on earth, do not mention any disasters other than the instant deaths of the attacking armies of the Anti-Christ, by the Sword of His Word. NOT worldwide terror!

There will be some cosmic signs, Matthew 24:29, but not the same as at the Sixth Seal.

Matthew 24:29 and Matthew 24:30a is the sixth seal event. There are not going to be TWO events of the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God in the third heaven, as the cosmos is rolled up like a scroll.

Luke 21:26 is also the sixth seal event...

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

followed by Luke 21:27 which is Matthew 24:30b...

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:30b...

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

which is the same in Mark 13....

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 

[keras]

Do you read anything about a superheated plasma in Revelation 6, the sixth seal ? No, there is no such thing in the text.

The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and fiery wrath, is described in over 100 Bible Prophesies. Rev 6:12-17 is just one of them. Malachi 4:1 and Isaiah 30:26a both tell of fire, extreme heat and that it will come from the sun.

Matthew 24:29-30 is a clear sequence; After the that time of distress has passed.....Referring to the Great Tribulation of all the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls.
Verse 30 describes the cosmic signs at the Return; which are not all the same as in the Sixth Seal.

Verse 31 is the visible Return of Jesus, when He will just destroy the armies of the Anti-Christ and chain up Satan, Rev 19:17-24
NOT a worldwide slaughter then, as will happen at the Sixth Seal. Zephaniah 3:8

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

There is a time gap between those two verses.
Versr 25 is the Sixth Seal event, which is followed by the Seventh Seal - a time gap of a half hour in heaven, that equals about 15/20 years earth time.
This is correct for all the things as prophesied to happen, between the SS and the Return.

 

[Tigger Boy]

The great tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will be upon those who take the mark of the beast. Revelation 9:20-21
The faithful Christian people will be taken to a place of safety. Revelation 12:14

Keras
Appreciate your response. However, you have explained the effects of the tribulation as you understand, rather than God's reason for requiring the world to experience it, "in the time of the end". Perhaps in another post you will do that so I can understand why you think God will do what you understand Him to do, to save the righteous, and punish the wicked.

At this time I will share what I believe God's will accomplish by means of the tribulation. It is my understanding based on, (Dan. 7:10; Rev.4,5,6,) A court convened in heaven in 1798, and a world wide search was made to determine who would be worthy to receive the scroll, from the Father, and to open it's seven seals. Jesus was found worthy and and at that time He received something He had not had, "soverign power."(Dan. 7:14) At this very point in time Jesus was promoted to the office of, "High Priest", to begin the judgement of mankind. According to (Rev.4:4) Seated before the Fathers throne were twenty- four other thrones of which twenty four elders were seated. These are the saints who were resurrected at the same time that Christ came out of His tomb, and were taken to heaven when Christ ascended. (Mat.27:52,53; Eph.4:8) Who better to witness the judgement of mankind.

Even though the actual judgement of mankind didn't begin until 1844 according to (Dan.8:14) because the christian church was recovering from 1260 years of what historians would call the, "dark ages/538-1798." During that time the, "little horn/papacy" of (Dan.7) was waging war against the saints and defeating them. Spiritual understanding was at it's lowest ebb.

The Father, all knowing, understood that mankind would have a difficult time in accepting the carpenter from Galilee, as Deity, equal to Himself, a God from everlasting to everlasting, and worthy of our worship. Therefore, the Father had placed seven seals upon the scroll/book which He gave to Jesus. As each seal is opened the Holy Spirit is to carry out a campaign on earth to expose more of the deity of Jesus so mankind would choose to worship Him. Therefore, we have the book of Revelation, the revealing of Jesus.

Shortly after 1798 according to Rev.6, Jesus began opening the seals. The first campaign/Seal the Holy Spirit started was to bring awareness to early protestants of the Catholic church, that salvation comes through, "faith", not by works, as the church taught. In the early 1800's the second campaign/seal was opened. The Holy Spirit began prompting protestants to establish Bible societies in Europe and the United States, in which Bibles were translated into languages the masses could read instead of Latin, and mass printing so the teachings of Jesus could be known and affordable for all. The third campaign/seal was opened in 1844, the investigative judgement of mankind began by our High Priest, Jesus, in the Heavenly sanctuary. In this investigative judgement Jesus judges the dead only, from the book of deeds/records. He only determines who will be saved and those who will be lost. So that when He returns He knows who to call up in the first resurrection of the righteous. This judgement is ongoing today. The Holy Spirit made the timing of this judgement know to the early Adventists in the early 1800's of which they proclaim to this day.

The forth campaign/seal is next to open.(Rev.6:8) It will reveal the sovereign authority of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is sent on a mission of death and destruction in which one-fourth of earth's population will perish. This destruction, God's wrath is also mentioned in (Rev.7:1-4) How the land, sea, and trees are harmed is revealed within the first four trumpets of (Rev.8:7-12) I felt in necessary to explain all of this so that you can better understand the purpose of the seals and why the Father requires Jesus to open them, in order that mankind would understand He is God and worthy of our worship.

The opening of the fourth seal is also the beginning of the tribulation. The purpose of the Tribulation, is designed to separate the sheep from the goats/wheat from the tares. It is the judgement of those still living. It is called a time of wrath, everyone will suffer wrath, no secrete rapture. The faith of all will be tested, in the same way that the three Hebrews
were tested as they stood before the fiery furnace on that Babylonian plain. The faithless will choose to receive the "mark of the beast", in order to buy or sell for survival. It is the faithless/wicked/ having the mark of the beast, who then will receive the, seven last plagues/bowl judgements, which are poured out in full strength. (Rev.14:9) Salvation is not available once the bowl judgements begin.

I must mention here, that during the seven trumpet judgements three messages are proclaimed to the entire world. The first, "fear God, [literly] and give Him[Jesus] glory, for the hour[time] of His judgement[of the living] has come. Please understand, God's wrath without a message would have little affect in saving souls, as man would claim it is the results of climate change. However, God's wrath during the trumpet judgements comes with the three messages, (Rev.14:6-10) salvation is available to all, while only one-third of His wrath is poured out durning these judgements.

So as I understand it, the trumpet judgements fall upon all of mankind, because all of the living must be tested to see who will live by faith, to the point of death. As Job was tested, and said, though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him[Jesus]. Too, consider (Rev.13:9,10).

Rev. 12:13-16, has been fulfilled, vss. 17-14:6, are waiting fulfillment. But let's not got there in this thread. Please.

 

[Douggg]

The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and fiery wrath, is described in over 100 Bible Prophesies. Rev 6:12-17 is just one of them. Malachi 4:1 and Isaiah 30:26a both tell of fire, extreme heat and that it will come from the sun.

No, it is not in the text of the sixth seal that they are taking cover from a superheated plasma. They seek to hide in the caves because they are terrified of seeing Jesus in the third heaven, and they know Jesus is about to execute his wrath on them, for martyring and persecuting the great tribulation saints - who in the fifth seal appeal to the Lord to do vengeance on their behalf.

Matthew 24:29-30 is a clear sequence; After the that time of distress has passed.....Referring to the Great Tribulation of all the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls.
Verse 30 describes the cosmic signs at the Return; which are not all the same as in the Sixth Seal.

Verse 29 describes the powers of heaven shaken. And Verse 30a confirms those are the sixth seal event, because the world sees the sign of the Son of man apearing in heaven. Jesus, the Lamb of God, the time of His wrath.

There is a time gap between those two verses.
Versr 25 is the Sixth Seal event, which is followed by the Seventh Seal - a time gap of a half hour in heaven, that equals about 15/20 years earth time.

There is a time period of 45 days (not 15/20 years) between them seeing the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven and Jesus's descent down to earth. There is only going to be one event which the stars fall from heaven, the universe rolled up like a scroll, and powers of heaven shaken.... and it has to involve the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God.

Once them in the sixth seal are terrified of the impending wrath of the Lamb.... the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon in Revelation 16:13-14 response will be to convince the kings of the earth to gather their armies at Armageddon, to make war on Jesus - to keep him from executing judgment on them.

That preparation to make war on Jesus is what takes place in the 45 days between the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven, Matthew 24:30a, and Jesus's descent down to earth with power and great glory in Matthew 24:30b. My comment inserted in red.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then [45 days later] shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Tigger Boy]

Not all of the ungodly people will be killed at the Sixth Seal. Most will survive to become part of the new One World Govt. The fiery disaster sent by the Lord - the Sixth Seal, will strike the Middle East at mid-day. Zephaniah 2:4-5
Only a few Jewish Christians will survive by hiding underground. Isaiah 29:1-4

Keras, appreciate sharing your beliefs. As I understand it, the Sixth Seal/campaign is where Jesus is revealed as King of Kings, Lord of Lords, His second coming. This is because according to the prophecy (Rev.6:12-14) There are all kinds of physical events happening here on earth to user in Christs arrival, such as falling stars, and ever mountain and island being moved out of there place.

Looking now at (Rev.16:17-21) We have the seventh bowl judgement. This is poured out just prior to Christ return. Notice in these texts, "a loud voice from heaven says, " It is done"[the tribulation] again many physical events occur here on earth, but note: from the sky huge hail stones[these likely are the stars John referred to earlier in the sixth seal, and too every mountain and island fled and could not be found.] similar langue. But how many times can islands and mountains disappear? Seems to many students of prophecy the sixth seals is the return of Christ, and I am of that group.

Since the bowl judgements only fall on the wicked those who have received the mark of the beast, all of the surviving saints of the trumpet judgements will remain to see Christ appear, and are taken to heaven to reign with him there during the 1,000 yrs. I must explain why they shall reign with Christ. During this time, they will be given the opportunity to question God's judgement of why some of there loved ones or friends were not saved and others they thought shouldn't be there are. God is very open and transparent, and will give every individual a chance to know why He gave them eternal life--or not, by viewing the records.
Of course everyone will see that God was just and fare in His decisions. The other order of business that must be complete by the saints will be to sit with Christ to determine the amount of restitution the wicked, human and fallen angles must pay for their unforgiven sins. Latter the purpose of the Great White Throne Judgement back on earth at the end of the 1,000. years is to raise the wicked in the second resurrection and inform them why they weren't saved and the restitution they shall pay for their sins. By restitution I mean the time they shall spend in the fires of Hell before they are consumed. Eventually the fire goes out, the earth is purified and God creates a new earth, of which the saints shall inherit.

I expressed earlier, that only the prophecies of Dan. & Rev. are relevant to us, as O.T. prophecies were specific to what God wanted to accomplish through Israel had they excepted Him as, the Son of God, the Lamb of God. Of course they did not.

 

[Douggg]

Looking now at (Rev.16:17-21) We have the seventh bowl judgement. This is poured out just prior to Christ return.

Look at my chart, in the lower right hand corner. I show the seventh vial (bowl) poured out.