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I thought we were under grace, not law.

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by Dalexsi, Nov 10, 2002.

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  1. Dalexsi

    Dalexsi Pug Queen

    118
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Hi All :wave: 

    I have a question regarding 1Corinthians 14:34: 

     As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches.  They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.

    Aside from my difficulty in getting past the women aren't allowed to speak part; why does Paul bring up the law?  He says in Romans 6:14 that we are not under law but under grace.  The only thing I noticed is that in the 1Corinithians verse "law" is capitalized, whereas elsewhere it is not.  Is there more than one law? 

    Can someone help?

    Thank you!

    Dani  
     
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  2. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

    +287
    Lutheran
    Some good questions, Dani!

    First, the prohibition against women speaking is not a universal - rather in the context of cha. 14, it occurs when the prophetic utterances are to be judged/evaluated. thus, a woman may prophesy (1 Cor. 11), but not participate in the judging (ruling aspect, so also "exercise authority" 1 Tim. 2:11-12).

    Regarding the "law" - the word NOMOS in the New Testament has several different referents. Thus, in some places it refers to the 10 commandments, in others to the "Decalogue section" (Exodus 20:1-24:10), and in others to the entire five books of Moses. Context helps us determine which is meant. But there is also another referent, namely the "oral tradition" that surrounded the "law" - for the Jews of the 1st century that would refer to the 618 "laws" built around the 10 commandments, most of which are not necessarily written. See Matthew 5:21-48 when Jesus confronts that oral tradition that actually distorted the law.

    Regarding this passage in 1 Cor. 14, there are two main positions. Some claim that Paul notes the consistency of the this exhortation with the law, meaning the written and oral law. Others claim that the Corinthians had claimed to be "more spiritual" even claiming the law as authority for their position, and Paul is refuting their use of "law."
     
  3. FOMWatts<><

    FOMWatts<>< Follower of the Way

    589
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    Well stated filosofer! :-D

    FOMWatts<><
     
  4. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    Once you're a Christian, and you have the Holy Spirit the Laws don't apply because we are under Grace. Which by the way is the common cop-out answer.

    The problem is without some sort of guide, how does one know what is and what isn't a sin. Some use the Jimney Cricket approach of having your conscience be your guide. But if that was true we wouldn't need our Bibles as a Moral Compass now would we; just have the Spirit move you. Some say we only need to follow the New Stuff in the New Testament because that has all the Old Testament stuff reformulated, for us Christians.

    The simple fact all the moral laws of the Bible apply, regardless of the location in the Bible. The determining factors is whether or not you are Spirit Lead. If you have a car, some features are automatic while others are manual. The Law is the same way, If you have the Spirit, following the law is automatic, if not you have to follow the law manually. That is why you always have to refer to the owners manual, all of it.

    GAL 5:16-18
    So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.&nbsp;For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    GAL 5:22
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What we have to be aware of as Christians, is when we are running on Automatic(Holy Spirit) versus Manual(Flesh) steering.
     
  5. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    The Women shouldn't&nbsp;speak in Church issue&nbsp;

    Paul is attempting to address or better trying to establish some decorum, i.e. some sense of order and conduct during church services. Paul was dealing with three groups of people who were being disruptive.

    1. Tongue Speakers - who were speaking in tongues no one could understand
    2. Prophets - who were speaking out of turn which was disruptive
    3. Women - asking questions that should be answered at home.

    1 CO 14:34-35
    As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.


    Does this mean that woman should not speak in church ever? No, if you read (11:15) it is clear women prayed and prophesied in public worship. Also equally as clear and shown in Chapters 12-15, that women had spiritual gifts and were encouraged to exercise them.

    In the culture of the day, women who lived in Corinth were not allowed to confront men in public (civil/secular law of the time). Some women who had become Christians, thought it now meant their freedom gave them the right to question men during public worship. This was causing a division in the church services, and was consider to being disgraceful in their behavior.

    Also women of that day did not receive formal religious education as did the men. Women may have been raising questions during public worship that could have been answered at home without disrupting the services.

    Paul's purpose was to quiet the group as a whole down. Paul did not write his letter in isolation; therefore we should not read it in isolation.
     
  6. Outspoken

    Outspoken Standing in the Gap

    +15
    Christian
    "Once you're a Christian, and you have the Holy Spirit the Laws don't apply because we are under Grace."

    Personally I'd disagree stating we are under that law, but we are covered because Christ fufilled the law, thus we are not "confined" by it :) I think paul was trying to say as much several times. the Law has not disappeared for christians all together, we are just not "killed" by it anymore, it still serves a purpose. I think that's what Paul was getting at in Gal chapter 3.
     
  7. Anthony

    Anthony Generic Christian

    +42
    Christian
    We live with the law, not under the law. The Law is a compass not a straight jacket.

    RO 7:7
    " What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
     
  8. Outspoken

    Outspoken Standing in the Gap

    +15
    Christian
    "We live with the law, not under the law"

    Exactly what I was saying. it is now a guide, not something to be thrown aside, but something to be used to further our relationship with God.
     
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